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ORIGINAL: bounty44

its not a "but Hillary" its an "and hillary."

part of the conversation is about the dossier and Hillary's a part of that.

part of the conversation is about "collusion" with Russia, and Hillary's a part of that.

and its not just "Hillary" either---its her campaign, and the DNC.

lastly, out of 260 posts in the thread so far, an occasional post about the broader picture does not constitute "turning the thread into 'about Hillary'"

on another hand comrades---you were the ones pushing the whole "Russia" thing---deal with the consequences when the net catches more than the fish you were hoping for.

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Hillary and the DNC are right wingers. Isn't it about time you started paying attention?

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Hillary and the DNC are right wingers. Isn't it about time you started paying attention?

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ORIGINAL: bounty44
its not a "but Hillary" its an "and hillary."

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ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

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ORIGINAL: bounty44
its not a "but Hillary" its an "and hillary."

No it isn't.

'And' means you are capable of discussing TWO topics at the same time.
You are only capable of CHANGING the topic to Hillary.
Also, you feel the need do it in every single thread about Trump.

I don't even think you realize that this is what you're doing, because you are simply following the narrative presented to you by endless hours spend browsing townhall.

The charges have NOTHING to do with the dossier, or WHO funded the dossier.
You brought the dossier into this because you are incapable of discussing the charges against Manafort or anything that threatens Trump, because his failure/guilt would mean that you have to admit you were wrong about something.

You have tied the integrity of your ego to a blatant fucking idiot.
Let go.

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ORIGINAL: bounty44
and just for fun fool---for the who knows how many times now---im a conservative leaning libertarian. townhall is a great site for journalists, and others, writing from the perspective that is consistent with my worldview. it has absolutely no bearing on my ability to understand topics on their merits when they are written from other perspectives, or to discuss them.

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In considering the indictment of former Donald Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and an associate, I am reminded of former Bill Clinton aide and defender James Carville's line about the ability of a grand jury to "indict a ham sandwich."

Manafort and a longtime business partner, Rick Gates, pleaded not guilty to all 12 counts against them. Manafort is under house arrest after posting an outrageously high bond of $10 million. Gates' bond was set at $5 million. George Papadopoulos, who was a foreign policy advisor to the Trump campaign, has pleaded guilty to making a false statement to the FBI about his foreign contacts with several top Russian officials.

Predictably, the major media are celebrating this as the beginning of the end of the nascent Trump presidency. Within hours of the announced indictments, New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof rushed into print with a column titled "Will Manafort Sing? If so, it may mark the beginning of the end of this presidency." Look for more of this wishful thinking that the establishment, the Democrats and all of the mainstream media have been hoping for since Trump won the election.

What Manafort stands accused of has nothing to do with the 2016 election, or with Russian "collusion." No one, so far, has produced any evidence the Russians affected the election's outcome. This is all about overturning the results and keeping "the swamp" full for those who live in it and reject change.

Real collusion might be in the significant share of U.S. uranium sold to the Russians during Hillary Clinton's tenure as secretary of state (she signed off on the deal), followed by a $500,000 fee paid to her husband for a speech in Moscow and the millions of dollars that subsequently flowed into the Clinton Foundation from uranium investors.
Special counsel Robert Mueller and Congress should investigate that Russian connection, along with the role of the Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton campaign (and the earlier Republican role) in creating an anti-Trump dossier that has been shown to be a fraud and yet was used to justify the appointment of Mueller. If the reason for Mueller's appointment is fraudulent, how can it be said that his investigation, which includes staff attorneys who made donations to Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, is not tainted?

Among the many problems with this investigation is that it has no legal, subject or monetary limits. If Mueller and his associates are unable to prove collusion with the Russians, one can count on them coming up with something else. Far-left members of Congress, such as Maxine Waters (D-Calif.), openly state that their objective is to "take out" the president, and they don't mean to lunch.

There is also the matter of leaks from the grand jury. Not surprisingly, the details of the indictments matched the leak to CNN. Unless that network employs mind readers and engages in paranormal activity, those leaks are felonies and the leakers should be prosecuted.

Meanwhile, Republicans in Congress are firing up investigations of their own, including long-overdue looks into various questionable and possibly illegal activities by the Clintons. Congress is the proper avenue for such investigations, not special counsels, who can "go rogue" if they wish.

These seemingly endless accusations and investigations are what so much of the country hates about Washington, the "D.C." that increasingly seems to stand for "dysfunctional city." No matter which party controls government, the other party does all it can, by whatever means, to undermine those elected. This behavior solves no problems. It is only about grabbing and holding onto power.

Given the many moving parts in the Mueller probe and the loss of focus on the primary reason for it, the government may have a difficult time proving its case in court. But with unlimited funds and a staff of lawyers who have Democratic affiliations, you can bet they will try to make more than a ham sandwich out of it.

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This is all about overturning the results and keeping "the swamp" full for those who live in it and reject change.

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an anti-Trump dossier that has been shown to be a fraud

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If the reason for Mueller's appointment is fraudulent, how can it be said that his investigation, which includes staff attorneys who made donations to Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, is not tainted?

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"Well, there’s clearly a pathway that he’s got planned out, and we’re seeing it unfold right now,” Figliuzzi said during an appearance on MSNBC. “And one of the things that I think we’re all realizing is that the Mueller team is much farther along in this investigation and much closer to the Oval Office than many of us realized."
Figliuzzi explained that a number of former White House staffers are fully cooperating with Mueller, and they may have knowledge of incriminating behavior from the president.
But the real worry for Trump right now should be the upcoming interview with communications director Hope Hicks, an associate of Trump's since his reality television days.
“Hope Hicks has been with Trump and the Trump Organization since 2014," Figliuzzi said. "She’s a 29-year-old young lady. She’s about to undergo the most stressful part of her life: being interviewed by the special counsel team. She sits in the most sensitive meetings, the most critical media interviews the president has."
"She knows more than we think she knows," Figliuzzi added.