RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (Full Version)

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Edwird -> RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (11/5/2017 3:45:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
I don't disagree with bringing Africa into the 21st century. Further, I believe it would be a debt the US owes to the continent.

Why does the US owe Africa anything?

Might it occur to you that JVoV is perhaps better read in history than you are?
That said, it's hard for me to believe that any American educated person is completely oblivious to the institution of slavery as existed ~ 150 years ago.
And, if digging the least bit in to it, the economic benefit to the few obtained thereby.


Perhaps you need to read up on that, too. It was Africans who sold their fellow Africans into slavery. Regardless, how does that result in the US owing African anything?


Right. So it was Africans pestering Europe to by these slaves, then. Not the buyers coming ashore and demanding product, directing the capturers as to what was demanded. Well, if that makes you feel better . . .

And yes it was Europe and not the US, which didn't exist at the time, who instituted the Western version of the slave trade and practice. So I don't agree with the assertion that the US "owes" Africa for that, being as that was standard practice at the time and instituted else where to begin with. But I agree with the point made in any case because the US and Europe have devastated that continent for centuries.

There is still the fact, though, that what started as somewhat more harsh terms of financial bondage or indentured servitude eventually got whittled down to outright chattel slavery in the US, by way of various new laws, one or two steps at a time. It eventually worked out that no African slave could fulfill the contract during his/her lifetime, so could only start buying freedom after they died. Neat.

But what is mind-boggling stupid is the notion that those who directed the whole operation are exonerated from any blame if they find any among the victims to provide some complicity. I suppose you're one of those who considers that the company is not liable for a death when the truck was doing 60 MPH in a 35 zone, if the person killed wasn't at a crosswalk when crossing the street.

Some few Jews ran companies who provided for the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe, at least for awhile, so all Jews deserved to get machine-gunned and gassed, right?

So how come executives of Ford and GM and IBM and Std. Oil NJ et al. weren't machine-gunned and gassed for doing the same thing?

By your estimation, "No apology needed" for gassing every living thing in the US from that.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (11/5/2017 4:33:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
I don't disagree with bringing Africa into the 21st century. Further, I believe it would be a debt the US owes to the continent.

Why does the US owe Africa anything?

Might it occur to you that JVoV is perhaps better read in history than you are?
That said, it's hard for me to believe that any American educated person is completely oblivious to the institution of slavery as existed ~ 150 years ago.
And, if digging the least bit in to it, the economic benefit to the few obtained thereby.

Perhaps you need to read up on that, too. It was Africans who sold their fellow Africans into slavery. Regardless, how does that result in the US owing African anything?

Right. So it was Africans pestering Europe to by these slaves, then. Not the buyers coming ashore and demanding product, directing the capturers as to what was demanded. Well, if that makes you feel better . . .
And yes it was Europe and not the US, which didn't exist at the time, who instituted the Western version of the slave trade and practice. So I don't agree with the assertion that the US "owes" Africa for that, being as that was standard practice at the time and instituted else where to begin with. But I agree with the point made in any case because the US and Europe have devastated that continent for centuries.


WTF is wrong with you? I asked JVoV why the US owed Africa anything. You respond with the blight on history that is slavery. Later you disagree the US owes Africa anything over slavery. Make up your mind.

How has the US "devastated [Africa] for centuries?"




Edwird -> RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (11/5/2017 5:01:28 PM)

You can't read.

Try again. Get one of your kids or neighbors to read it for you.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Transnational_corps/DrillingKilling_OilNigeria.html

I already placed this in an earlier post. But I guess I have to spell it out for you, since you apparently don't know how to operate a link;

"On May 28, after occupying the facility for three days, villagers thought they were waiting for Chevron's final response to their demands when helicopters swooped down. "We were looking at these helicopters thinking...people inside these helicopters might have been Chevron's reps who are actually coming to dialogue," said one of the activists, known as Parrere. "They were about to land when we heard shooting of tear gas and guns." The Nigerian military shot to death two protesters, Jola Ogungbeje and Aroleka Irowaninu, critically wounded a third man, Larry Bowato, and injured as many as thirty others. Bowato says, "When they shot these guys, I was rushing there to rescue [them]...it is then they shot me."

"Responding to inquiries from Human Rights Watch in London following the attack, Chevron consistently claimed it; action against the occupation was to call the federal authorities and tell them what was happening. But in a startling admission during a recent three-hour interview with Pacifica Radio's daily national newsmagazine Democracy Now! Chevron spokesperson Sola Omole admitted that the company had in fact transported the Nigerian soldiers to the facility.

Q: Who took them in, on Thursday morning, the Mobile Police, the Navy?
Omole: We did. We did. Chevron did. We took them there.

Q: By how?
Omole: Helicopters. Yes, we took them in.

Q: Who authorized the call for the military to come in?
Omole: That's Chevron's management.


"Following the interview conducted in Nigeria, Pacifica requested further comment from Chevron's headquarters in San Francisco. Michael Libbey, the company's manager of media relations, wrote the network a letter stating that Sola Omole's comments "fully represent the views of both our Nigerian business unit and of Chevron."










Edwird -> RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (11/5/2017 5:11:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri


I asked JVoV why the US owed Africa anything. You respond with the blight on history that is slavery. Later you disagree the US owes Africa anything over slavery. Make up your mind.


You can't understand the distinction and the difference. So what's new?

quote:

How has the US "devastated [Africa] for centuries?"


Get somebody to read for you. And I sure didn't say it was only the US. See above.






JVoV -> RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (11/5/2017 5:12:41 PM)

I was referring to slavery, yes.




Edwird -> RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (11/5/2017 5:30:49 PM)

Good.

Then we can let the European countries take the lion's share of the "humanity cost" they're responsible for before the US has to worry about it.

I don't know if the Netherlands and Portugal and England can cover it, but, you know, fuck'em.

There were maybe a handful of US Southern plantation owners whose main house would rank as even a guest house on a proper English estate, both being derived from that same institution.

The Brits and Dutch were smarter back then.

They got us onto coffee and cinnamon and pepper and tea (at least the Netherlanders did), so there's that, too.





DesideriScuri -> RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (11/5/2017 6:23:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I asked JVoV why the US owed Africa anything. You respond with the blight on history that is slavery. Later you disagree the US owes Africa anything over slavery. Make up your mind.

You can't understand the distinction and the difference. So what's new?


I fully understand you can't be consistent.

quote:

quote:

How has the US "devastated [Africa] for centuries?"

Get somebody to read for you. And I sure didn't say it was only the US. See above.


I understand you mentioned Europe and the US. Are you saying that the US owes Africa for what Europe and the US has done in Africa? I figure Europe should be on the hook for whatever devastation Europe has brought to Africa. Since you are making a distinction:
    1.how long has the US been devastating Africa?
    2. How has the US been devastating Africa for that period of time (as answered in response to #1)?









DesideriScuri -> RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (11/5/2017 6:26:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
I was referring to slavery, yes.


Why would we owe the continent of Africa anything because of slavery? Africans sold other Africans into slavery.

How much should we "owe" Africa? How much aid to we currently send to Africa?






JVoV -> RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (11/5/2017 7:31:40 PM)

Go get some Patti LaBelle's peach cobbler from WalMart, and then you'll know the answer.




Edwird -> RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (11/5/2017 8:55:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri]ORIGINAL:
Are you saying that the US owes Africa for what Europe and the US has done in Africa?


No.

quote:

how long has the US been devastating Africa?


Ask Chevron. They've kept a record of it.

quote:

How has the US been devastating Africa for that period of time (as answered in response to #1)?


Ask Chevron, they have a record of it.

I'm sorry you can't get any of your neighbors to read for you.

Slavery was on these shores long before the Constitution, and the original Constitution itself accommodated slavery.

What are you trying to say?

That because slavery existed 5,000 years ago the US is exonerated on its part?

Great. Anti-Judaism existed before 1940, so you're all cool with the gas chambers, then?

















WhoreMods -> RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (11/6/2017 5:02:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
Great. Anti-Judaism existed before 1940, so you're all cool with the gas chambers, then?

Careful: I'm sure you know that a lot of occultists agree with Lovecraft that the most important rule of magic is never to invoke anything that you aren't sure that you can banish afterwards, and you could be calling up something that can't be banished from the thread by mentioning that...




DesideriScuri -> RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (11/6/2017 6:29:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri]ORIGINAL:
Are you saying that the US owes Africa for what Europe and the US has done in Africa?

No.
quote:

how long has the US been devastating Africa?

Ask Chevron. They've kept a record of it.


Not going to support your assertions for you. Did Chevron pay nothing for oil rights?

quote:

quote:

How has the US been devastating Africa for that period of time (as answered in response to #1)?

Ask Chevron, they have a record of it.
I'm sorry you can't get any of your neighbors to read for you.
Slavery was on these shores long before the Constitution, and the original Constitution itself accommodated slavery.
What are you trying to say?
That because slavery existed 5,000 years ago the US is exonerated on its part?
Great. Anti-Judaism existed before 1940, so you're all cool with the gas chambers, then?


FFS, now we owe Africa because of Slavery again?!? Make up your fucking mind, dood.

Great Nazi/Holocaust reference. I guess that means you have nothing left to add to your argument.




JVoV -> RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (11/6/2017 9:57:44 AM)

Ok, how about this argument then...

It would behoove the US to take an active role in the development of Africa in order to strengthen and promote democracy on the continent, to minimize radical regimes, and to establish trade partners and military allies.

And if we don't do it, China or Russia will.

Welcome to the Second Cold War.




blnymph -> RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (11/6/2017 10:07:32 AM)

maybe the nonsensical arguments gathered in that article quoted in post no. 1 have less to do with American history and US relations to African countries but the UN climate conference starting today where US officials will meet the rest of the world discussing the effects of fossil fuels ...




JVoV -> RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (11/6/2017 10:48:00 AM)

Our current administration isn't going to budge much on anything related to climate change.




blnymph -> RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (11/6/2017 2:18:47 PM)

they publish remarkable reports on the issue


https://science2017.globalchange.gov/

either no politicians read it before publishing or decided that censorship would reveal their ignorance even more than they do by themselves





Edwird -> RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (11/6/2017 4:15:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Did Chevron pay nothing for oil rights?


How much did Chevron pay for civilian murder rights? Probably got it on the cheap, just like the oil rights.

quote:

FFS, now we owe Africa because of Slavery again?


I never said such thing. You need to hire better readers, seriously. You consistently misconstrue and misinterpret and otherwise completely mangle the simplest and most direct explanations, in every way imaginable.

In any case, all the Chevron stuff was well after slavery.

Or was it reference of helicopters that made you think the article was about the US Civil War?




Edwird -> RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (11/6/2017 4:29:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
Ok, how about this argument then...

It would behoove the US to take an active role in the development of Africa in order to strengthen and promote democracy on the continent, to minimize radical regimes, and to establish trade partners and military allies.

And if we don't do it, China or Russia will.


Yes, that last part seems to be overlooked a lot.

China has, in fact, been buying up oil and mineral rights all over the world.

But Obama took a trip to Brazil once and was accompanied by some business folks.

You never heard such squealing and screaming from those lab animals calling themselves "conservatives."

Not a peep from that crowd about this, though;

Chinese company to buy Texas oil fields in $1.3 billion deal

Or this;

CNOOC : China buys Mexico offshore oil rights

Or this;

China takes on more U.S. shale reserves

Or even this;

China Is Reaping Biggest Benefits of Iraq Oil Boom


-“We lost out,” said Michael Makovsky, a former Defense Department official in the Bush administration who worked on Iraq oil policy. “The Chinese had nothing to do with the war, but from an economic standpoint they are benefiting from it, and our Fifth Fleet and air forces are helping to assure their supply.”-





DesideriScuri -> RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (11/6/2017 5:03:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
Ok, how about this argument then...
It would behoove the US to take an active role in the development of Africa in order to strengthen and promote democracy on the continent, to minimize radical regimes, and to establish trade partners and military allies.
And if we don't do it, China or Russia will.
Welcome to the Second Cold War.


We pay to have them be our friends? Isn't that just an extension of "American Imperialism" (which I oppose)?

How much more do we have to extend our military?

You never answered my questions. In your estimation, how much do we "owe" Africa, and how much aid does the US send to Africa every year?




DesideriScuri -> RE: Fossil fuels help prevent sexual assault in Africa (11/6/2017 5:11:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Did Chevron pay nothing for oil rights?

How much did Chevron pay for civilian murder rights? Probably got it on the cheap, just like the oil rights.


Again, your assertion to back up.

quote:

quote:

FFS, now we owe Africa because of Slavery again?

I never said such thing. You need to hire better readers, seriously. You consistently misconstrue and misinterpret and otherwise completely mangle the simplest and most direct explanations, in every way imaginable.


You brought it back up, Edwird. You can't even follow your own lines of "reasoning." FFS!

quote:

In any case, all the Chevron stuff was well after slavery.


Why does the US Government owe anything to Africa over any actions taken by Chevron? You did read your article, right? It wasn't Chevron that killed the people. According to the article (and I'm not saying the article was incorrect) , Chevron flew members of the Nigerian military. So, apparently, the Nigerian government was also complicit.

None of that means the US Government owes the continent (or even Nigeria) a damn thing.

In your estimation, how much does the US "owe" Africa? How much more aid do we need to send to "pay off" our "debt?"




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