Justice seems to be rigged against BLACKS. I am shocked. (Full Version)

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vincentML -> Justice seems to be rigged against BLACKS. I am shocked. (11/18/2017 5:52:20 PM)

Black Men’s Sentences 20 Percent Longer Than White Men’s For Similar Crimes.

The commission also factored in offenders’ criminal histories to look at whether violence in offenders’ pasts could account for the racial disparities ― and found that it did not. Looking at 2016, the only year for which such data was available, the commission found that, after controlling for criminal history, black men still received 20.4 percent longer sentences than did white men.

source





stef -> RE: Justice seems to be rigged against BLACKS. I am shocked. (11/18/2017 5:56:30 PM)

This just in: Water is wet.




vincentML -> RE: Justice seems to be rigged against BLACKS. I am shocked. (11/18/2017 6:07:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

This just in: Water is wet.

There are some on here who fail to believe it or find fault with the truth.

Thank you for your help.




Marini -> RE: Justice seems to be rigged against BLACKS. I am shocked. (11/18/2017 7:18:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

This just in: Water is wet.



Breaking news: The earth is round.




kdsub -> RE: Justice seems to be rigged against BLACKS. I am shocked. (11/18/2017 8:33:53 PM)

That's not a problem in N St Louis.

Butch




bounty44 -> RE: Justice seems to be rigged against BLACKS. I am shocked. (11/19/2017 5:31:24 AM)

let me caution everyone of solely relying on the huffpo article; go to the original source.

here is the actual report:

https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/research-publications/2017/20171114_Demographics.pdf

its not simply a matter of "black vs white" and to report it plainly as such, while noteworthy and possibly problematic, is misrepresentative of the complexity of sentencing.

and please, just take that at face value and don't try to attribute to me positions I have not clearly stated, or even implied in any way, shape or form.

heres a helpful quote from the study:

quote:

These analyses show that some differences exist, and describe the relative size of those differences, in the periods in which the differences were observed. However, the fact that certain sentencing outcomes may be correlated with demographic factors does not mean that the demographic factors caused the outcome.60 Therefore, the demographic differences in sentencing outcomes revealed by these analyses should not be interpreted as a finding that demographic factors caused those differences. Neither can the analyses presented in this report be used to explain why the observed differences in sentencing outcomes exist.

Although multivariate regression analysis is common in social science research, and steps were taken to ensure its appropriateness for these analyses, this type of analysis has limitations. One or more key factors that could affect the analysis may have been omitted from the methodologies used because a particular factor is unknown, or because data concerning the factor is not readily available in the Commission’s datasets. Such factors may include whether the offender committed crimes not reflected in an offender’s criminal history score, and the offender’s employment record. Accordingly, the results presented in this report should be interpreted with caution and should not be taken to suggest race or gender discrimination on the part of judges.


ps---if I remember from perusing, white males received longer sentences than all females. is the "justice system 'rigged' against" them too?




vincentML -> RE: Justice seems to be rigged against BLACKS. I am shocked. (11/19/2017 7:04:21 AM)

quote:

These analyses show that some differences exist, and describe the relative size of those differences, in the periods in which the differences were observed. However, the fact that certain sentencing outcomes may be correlated with demographic factors does not mean that the demographic factors caused the outcome.60 Therefore, the demographic differences in sentencing outcomes revealed by these analyses should not be interpreted as a finding that demographic factors caused those differences. Neither can the analyses presented in this report be used to explain why the observed differences in sentencing outcomes exist.

I really can't ever recall reading such twaddle and trash in defense of a social argument as the above, going around in empty circles and signifying absolutely nothing. If you are going to make a defense, old bean, do not insult is with such clap as "the demographic outcomes don't mean what they seem to mean." Jesus Christ on a bicycle, have we never before gone around in such meaningless trash as that? If the demographic out comes don't seem to mean what they seem to mean then what the fuck do they mean? Just because there is a correlation does not mean that the correlation has any significance. . . . . and we are left with that bullshit piece of reasoning, as if all of the great scholars [sm=happy-smiley58.gif] on these boards concur with such testicle twisting logic.

And let us give a special award for those who pretend to agree that justice in these United States has been mangled in favor of white male privilege all along, shrug their shoulders, and hint that there is really nothing to be done about it. Oh well, what the hell. Come crying along then the next time some young black man loses the flower of his life to the odious piss smell of the iron-walled slammer. We will just as easily shrug our shoulders. What can we do about the twists of injustice in the white man's world? So yeah, the earth is round and water is wet so what are we suppose to do about it? Not much but follow the realtor's lines and accept the trash that the school system assigns because who knows better than the realtor and the school administrator what's best for the children? Whyn't you just lay down in front of the bull dozier and pretend that Martin solved that problem with his life at the Lorraine Motel back in '68?




MrRodgers -> RE: Justice seems to be rigged against BLACKS. I am shocked. (11/19/2017 8:07:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

These analyses show that some differences exist, and describe the relative size of those differences, in the periods in which the differences were observed. However, the fact that certain sentencing outcomes may be correlated with demographic factors does not mean that the demographic factors caused the outcome.60 Therefore, the demographic differences in sentencing outcomes revealed by these analyses should not be interpreted as a finding that demographic factors caused those differences. Neither can the analyses presented in this report be used to explain why the observed differences in sentencing outcomes exist.

I really can't ever recall reading such twaddle and trash in defense of a social argument as the above, going around in empty circles and signifying absolutely nothing. If you are going to make a defense, old bean, do not insult is with such clap as "the demographic outcomes don't mean what they seem to mean." Jesus Christ on a bicycle, have we never before gone around in such meaningless trash as that? If the demographic out comes don't seem to mean what they seem to mean then what the fuck do they mean? Just because there is a correlation does not mean that the correlation has any significance. . . . . and we are left with that bullshit piece of reasoning, as if all of the great scholars [sm=happy-smiley58.gif] on these boards concur with such testicle twisting logic.

And let us give a special award for those who pretend to agree that justice in these United States has been mangled in favor of white male privilege all along, shrug their shoulders, and hint that there is really nothing to be done about it. Oh well, what the hell. Come crying along then the next time some young black man loses the flower of his life to the odious piss smell of the iron-walled slammer. We will just as easily shrug our shoulders. What can we do about the twists of injustice in the white man's world? So yeah, the earth is round and water is wet so what are we suppose to do about it? Not much but follow the realtor's lines and accept the trash that the school system assigns because who knows better than the realtor and the school administrator what's best for the children? Whyn't you just lay down in front of the bull dozier and pretend that Martin solved that problem with his life at the Lorraine Motel back in '68?

Like I've written VML, we see social hypocrisy, political hypocrisy and while America may be...may be, one of the least racist countries in the world, America still is...a racist country.

Blacks have X greater chance than white and any others, of being arrested, black have an X greater chance than whites and others of being beaten by the police and blacks are a greater chance whites and others of being shot and shot to death.

Now amazing, imagine that, we find that blacks have a greater chance than whites of being sentenced to 20% longer sentence. Again, see above that explains why I am not at all surprised.




MercTech -> RE: Justice seems to be rigged against BLACKS. I am shocked. (11/19/2017 10:15:11 AM)

This is an interesting fact to look at as to origins.
I was curious what my cousin who works for the state DOJ thought about the issue.

To paraphrase the answer "So many young men seem to be unable to convince a judge that they feel contrition during the sentencing hearing after conviction. Making excuses and blaming others is a shortcut to a maximum sentence. It isn't my job in prosecutions to fix stupid behavior. Sometimes you shake your head and move on."





bounty44 -> RE: Justice seems to be rigged against BLACKS. I am shocked. (11/19/2017 10:22:52 AM)

I was thinking the exact same thing when I was wondering about other un-measurable variables, like court room behavior.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Justice seems to be rigged against BLACKS. I am shocked. (11/19/2017 11:13:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

These analyses show that some differences exist, and describe the relative size of those differences, in the periods in which the differences were observed. However, the fact that certain sentencing outcomes may be correlated with demographic factors does not mean that the demographic factors caused the outcome.60 Therefore, the demographic differences in sentencing outcomes revealed by these analyses should not be interpreted as a finding that demographic factors caused those differences. Neither can the analyses presented in this report be used to explain why the observed differences in sentencing outcomes exist.

I really can't ever recall reading such twaddle and trash in defense of a social argument as the above, going around in empty circles and signifying absolutely nothing.


You know why you can't recall reading it? It's because you didn't read the report the HuffPo article was based on. The article linked an updated to the 2012 Booker Report. That's what the article was based on. Now, had you read the update, you'd would have read "such twaddle and trash in defense of a social argument." You're complaint, is with the USSC. Best of luck trying to win that one.




bounty44 -> RE: Justice seems to be rigged against BLACKS. I am shocked. (11/19/2017 11:53:16 AM)

Vincent, in addition to what desi said, then youve never read research articles because that's EXACTLY the type of language used, and is of a necessity used when these types of studies and analyses are done.

this sounds harsh but the only "twaddle and trash" then is in your understanding research methodology and in your critical thinking.




MrRodgers -> RE: Justice seems to be rigged against BLACKS. I am shocked. (11/19/2017 9:50:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I was thinking the exact same thing when I was wondering about other un-measurable variables, like court room behavior.

except we know the variables and it ain't pretty




MrRodgers -> RE: Justice seems to be rigged against BLACKS. I am shocked. (11/19/2017 10:11:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

These analyses show that some differences exist, and describe the relative size of those differences, in the periods in which the differences were observed. However, the fact that certain sentencing outcomes may be correlated with demographic factors does not mean that the demographic factors caused the outcome.60 Therefore, the demographic differences in sentencing outcomes revealed by these analyses should not be interpreted as a finding that demographic factors caused those differences. Neither can the analyses presented in this report be used to explain why the observed differences in sentencing outcomes exist.

I really can't ever recall reading such twaddle and trash in defense of a social argument as the above, going around in empty circles and signifying absolutely nothing.


You know why you can't recall reading it? It's because you didn't read the report the HuffPo article was based on. The article linked an updated to the 2012 Booker Report. That's what the article was based on. Now, had you read the update, you'd would have read "such twaddle and trash in defense of a social argument." You're complaint, is with the USSC. Best of luck trying to win that one.

So we all could read it. So what ?

This report’s findings match those of a previous USSC report from 2007 to 2011, which found a nearly 20 percent gap in sentences between black and white men.

Then they even considered maybe this on the prosecutors. either way...they and judges are almost all white.

Ok, let's spin and obfuscate and go with that jargon from a 2012 update, what does it matter ? These figures have gotten steadily worse since the 90's regardless of any other 'demographic' factors.'

Why would I have a problem with the USSC ? Studies (the fucking numbers) continue to show a disparity and a growing one. Oh but hey...not really ?




Rule -> RE: Justice seems to be rigged against BLACKS. I am shocked. (11/20/2017 8:55:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Looking at 2016, the only year for which such data was available, the commission found that, after controlling for criminal history, black men still received 20.4 percent longer sentences than did white men.

What are the data for (the children of) circumcized men versus (the children of) non-circumsized men?
Or tall men versus short men?
Or fat men versus slender men?
Or men with large feet versus men with small feet?




Rule -> RE: Justice seems to be rigged against BLACKS. I am shocked. (11/20/2017 9:03:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
America may be...may be, one of the least racist countries in the world

Mwahahaha!

The USA is drenched in racism, especially afflicting those who agitate against racism and see racism where there is no racism; only racists do.

I have always despised the USA for its racist culture.





DesideriScuri -> RE: Justice seems to be rigged against BLACKS. I am shocked. (11/20/2017 1:26:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

These analyses show that some differences exist, and describe the relative size of those differences, in the periods in which the differences were observed. However, the fact that certain sentencing outcomes may be correlated with demographic factors does not mean that the demographic factors caused the outcome.60 Therefore, the demographic differences in sentencing outcomes revealed by these analyses should not be interpreted as a finding that demographic factors caused those differences. Neither can the analyses presented in this report be used to explain why the observed differences in sentencing outcomes exist.

I really can't ever recall reading such twaddle and trash in defense of a social argument as the above, going around in empty circles and signifying absolutely nothing.

You know why you can't recall reading it? It's because you didn't read the report the HuffPo article was based on. The article linked an updated to the 2012 Booker Report. That's what the article was based on. Now, had you read the update, you'd would have read "such twaddle and trash in defense of a social argument." You're complaint, is with the USSC. Best of luck trying to win that one.

So we all could read it. So what ?


So what? So it's obvious that Vincent didn't read it, else he'd have recalled "reading such twaddle and trash in defense of a social argument." That was my entire point. Der.




servantforuse -> RE: Justice seems to be rigged against BLACKS. I am shocked. (11/20/2017 2:24:54 PM)

Vincent, If they would stop committing violent crimes, they wouldn't have to worry about the justice system.




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