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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
... and here is where you move the goal posts. Yes, there is no sin in feeding a sinner, but homosexuality (the action) is a sin.

I know this quote was in reply to Butch but there are things in it that are interesting to talk about.

I understand that you and some of the other forum posters believe this to be true. It's not my attempt to convince you to change your personal beliefs. At the same time, I'm sure you understand that not all Christians agree with it, even if it seems like most do. A person also has to ask themselves if homosexuality is a sin, and if we believe God creates all of us, why would God create gay people?

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact
There are also areas like the bible being written by men (humans) and all men are fallible (make mistakes), are we really sure this text has been translated properly over all these years and languages, and other questions of that type.

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ORIGINAL: JVoV
You have no human right to sell a custom decorated food.

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

waaaaaaahhh, we didn't get the cake we wanted.

go across town and get it from somewhere else.

the horrors!

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Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

quote:

Homosexuality is addressed in Catholic moral theology under two forms: homosexual orientation is considered an "objective disorder" because Catholicism views it as being "ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil", but not sinful unless acted upon.[1] Homosexual sexual activity, by contrast, is viewed as a "moral disorder"[1] and "homosexual acts" are viewed as "contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity."[2]

The Catholic Church teaches that marriage can be made only between a man and a woman,[3][4] and opposes introduction of both civil and religious same-sex marriage.[5][6][7][8][9] The Church holds that same-sex unions are an unfavorable environment for children and that the legalization of such unions is harmful to society.[10]

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

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ORIGINAL: JVoV
You have no human right to sell a custom decorated food.

try "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" the latter of which implies making a livelihood according to one's abilities, giftedness and inclinations.

its completely reprehensible to me that you and the other comrades here think its okay to force someone through the law, to either act in a way that violates the man religious principles, or to otherwise cause his business to suffer as a result of complying with the law.

waaaaaaahhh, we didn't get the cake we wanted.

go across town and get it from somewhere else.

the horrors!

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

in case anyone is wondering what the catholic church position on homosexuality is:

quote:

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

quote:

Homosexuality is addressed in Catholic moral theology under two forms: homosexual orientation is considered an "objective disorder" because Catholicism views it as being "ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil", but not sinful unless acted upon.[1] Homosexual sexual activity, by contrast, is viewed as a "moral disorder"[1] and "homosexual acts" are viewed as "contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity."[2]

The Catholic Church teaches that marriage can be made only between a man and a woman,[3][4] and opposes introduction of both civil and religious same-sex marriage.[5][6][7][8][9] The Church holds that same-sex unions are an unfavorable environment for children and that the legalization of such unions is harmful to society.[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_the_Catholic_Church

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In a press conference Sunday on the flight back to Rome after his weekend trip to Armenia, the pontiff said bluntly: "The church must say it's sorry for not having comported itself well many times, many times."

"I believe that the church not only must say it's sorry ... to this person that is gay that it has offended," said the pope. "But it must say it's sorry to the poor, also, to mistreated women, to children forced to work."

"When I say the church: Christians," Francis clarified. "The church is holy. We are the sinners."

The pope was responding to a question about remarks German Cardinal Reinhard Marx made last week that the Catholic church should apologize to the gay community for marginalizing them.

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"I will repeat the same thing I said on the first trip," Francis said today, referencing the press conference he held on a return flight from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, in 2013. "I will also repeat what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says: that [gay people] should not be discriminated against, that they have to be respected, pastorally accompanied."

"The matter is a person that has that condition [and] that has good will because they search for God," said the pontiff.

"Who are we to judge them?" he asked, reframing his famous phrase from 2013 into the plural. "We must accompany well -- what the Catechism says. The Catechism is clear."

Francis also said that the culture in which he grew up in Argentina many years ago was a "closed Catholic culture," giving the example of how it was looked down upon to even enter the home of a couple who had been married civilly after one of the partners had previously divorced.

"The culture has changed -- and thank God!" the pope exclaimed. "Christians; we must say we are sorry many times; not only on this."

"This is the life of the church," said the pontiff. "We are all saints because we all have the Holy Spirit inside us. But we are also all sinners."

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

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You have no human right to force someone to sell you custom decorated food. What the fuck is wrong with you?!?

This is what is wrong... I do not have the right to make them sell anything... unless they sell to everyone but gays... then yes I do have the right to call them out for discrimination. They would be denying gays the same right they give to you...why are you special?.
Butch

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ORIGINAL: JVoV

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: kdsub
Dance much...lol... The baker is open for business to bake wedding cakes... open to the general public... until they say we are gay... that is denying a right that you have...a human right to purchase food. A right that the Christian religion does not deny to any one for any reason anywhere in any text.
If we are to believe the verse in question then being gay is the sin... not feeding a sinner.
Butch

Not as much as you dance.
Masterpiece Cakeshop has lost 40% of it's business because they stopped custom decorating cakes (and they aren't all wedding cakes, either). They sell other baked goods, too.

And I have brought a handful of the cakes they advertise on their website to the owners of the intellectual properties that have been used without a license. Disney & Mattel have both responded quickly to my emails, still waiting on a couple others.
This should be fun.

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You have no human right to force someone to sell you custom decorated food. What the fuck is wrong with you?!?
Mr. Phillips, it has been stated, said he'd sell them anything he makes, but wouldn't custom decorate a cake celebrating a gay wedding. The couple have no right to force him to customize a cake for them. They could have bought a cake. They decided not to buy a cake from the shop.

You have no human right to sell a custom decorated food.

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ORIGINAL: JVoV

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

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ORIGINAL: JVoV
You have no human right to sell a custom decorated food.

try "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" the latter of which implies making a livelihood according to one's abilities, giftedness and inclinations.
its completely reprehensible to me that you and the other comrades here think its okay to force someone through the law, to either act in a way that violates the man religious principles, or to otherwise cause his business to suffer as a result of complying with the law.
waaaaaaahhh, we didn't get the cake we wanted.
go across town and get it from somewhere else.
the horrors!

Ah, I see you're devolving back into old habits. Sad.
The pursuit of happiness is far too abstract a concept to ever be put into law. Nevermind how often that has been denied to many of us outright by law.
Cake makes me happy though. The thought of being able to celebrate the plan of spending the rest of my life with someone makes me happy, among other things. Having to deal with multiple businesses for each necessary service and being rejected for the same reason while trying to plan that celebration doesn't allow for much happiness to me.

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I understand that some Christians believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. Ok. Then think of the event however you need to, use whatever language you need to. Call it a commitment cake in your mind, simply refer to it as the cake when you speak of it. Your church probably isn't involved in officiating the ceremony anyway, especially if that takes place out of state as in this case.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Probably not really fun. Spitefully satisfying, maybe....

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ORIGINAL: JVoV

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Probably not really fun. Spitefully satisfying, maybe....

I do own a few shares of Disney stock, so really I'm just protecting my investment.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: JVoV

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Probably not really fun. Spitefully satisfying, maybe....

I do own a few shares of Disney stock, so really I'm just protecting my investment.

Bullshit.

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ORIGINAL: JVoV
Desi, the law cannot discern between a legal ceremony and a religious ceremony, because of that whole "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" thing, with a spoonful of the 14th Amendment for flavor.
But what the law & IRS call it has nothing to do with what someone else can call it. To me, it's a wedding. To you, it's defiling a religious sacrament. Poe-tay-toe, Pah-tah-toe. Gimme my cake.

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And it's too late for that discussion anyway, since the Supreme Court has ruled in favor of gay marriage as a Constitutional right. The States could have provided civil unions before that, as some did, to make that case a non-issue, but many refused to do so.