quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

All these people glad handing Trump for the "Great Economy" should remember for 7 1/2 years Bush told us the US the Economy was Great, right up to the point it collapsed.

Obama was handed a collapsing Economy and under Obama the Economy started to grow again and for 8 years continued that growth, maybe not as fast as you would like but it no longer was collapsing.

Now Trump, handed an Economy that was growing is, in less than a year, being credited for "growing" the Economy or at least speeding up the "growth".

Perhaps we should wait for the end of his "reign" to see if this is Trump and his policies causing this "growth" or whether he is just for the time being riding the growth wave Obama started and the Economy will stall and start to collapse again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

All these people glad handing Trump for the "Great Economy" should remember for 7 1/2 years Bush told us the US the Economy was Great, right up to the point it collapsed.

Obama was handed a collapsing Economy and under Obama the Economy started to grow again and for 8 years continued that growth, maybe not as fast as you would like but it no longer was collapsing.

Now Trump, handed an Economy that was growing is, in less than a year, being credited for "growing" the Economy or at least speeding up the "growth".

Perhaps we should wait for the end of his "reign" to see if this is Trump and his policies causing this "growth" or whether he is just for the time being riding the growth wave Obama started and the Economy will stall and start to collapse again.

Obama's collapsing economy was at least partially Obama's own fault. His, and the Democrats in general

Bush warned that what they were doing was a serious issue but they didn't listen. Bush worked to change the trajectory, Democrats resisted - and caused the meltdown.

Look back at the OP of this post and you will find video of Obama mocking Trump for promising this kind of growth.

Obama knew that with Democrat policies, the meager 2% growth we saw with Obama was the best that could be expected

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

All these people glad handing Trump for the "Great Economy" should remember for 7 1/2 years Bush told us the US the Economy was Great, right up to the point it collapsed.

Obama was handed a collapsing Economy and under Obama the Economy started to grow again and for 8 years continued that growth, maybe not as fast as you would like but it no longer was collapsing.

Now Trump, handed an Economy that was growing is, in less than a year, being credited for "growing" the Economy or at least speeding up the "growth".

Perhaps we should wait for the end of his "reign" to see if this is Trump and his policies causing this "growth" or whether he is just for the time being riding the growth wave Obama started and the Economy will stall and start to collapse again.

Obama's collapsing economy was at least partially Obama's own fault. His, and the Democrats in general

Bush warned that what they were doing was a serious issue but they didn't listen. Bush worked to change the trajectory, Democrats resisted - and caused the meltdown.

Look back at the OP of this post and you will find video of Obama mocking Trump for promising this kind of growth.

Obama knew that with Democrat policies, the meager 2% growth we saw with Obama was the best that could be expected

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

Interesting but having lived through both Bush and McCain telling us don't look behind the curtain the Economy is going Great Guns till its collapse at the end of Bush's presidency

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Not the CRA bullshit again ? That's been so debunked it's ridiculous and nothing more than partisan bullshit to try in any way...to blame dem policies and dem policies you denigrate as such all of the time, that repubs endorsed...including Bush.

CRA loans were less than 5% of ALL mortgage loans, there was no enforcement action if any lender failed to make any CRA loans and furthermore, less than 1/2 of all CRA loans got behind.

That's at or less than 2 of every mort, and even if in foreclose, certainly...didn't bankrupt wall street.

The banking meltdown simply demonstrated the real moral hazard in even allowing such greed and fraud over shit-paper speculation to cause a collective multi-$trillion bankruptcy and the resulting gold-plated handout...er bailout.

Real conservatives know that too big to fail is...too big to exist. Not these rent-seeking whores we have on the right today.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

Interesting but having lived through both Bush and McCain telling us don't look behind the curtain the Economy is going Great Guns till its collapse at the end of Bush's presidency

Why do you keep repeating the same lie after it has been proven to be a lie

Bush Called For Reform of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac 17 Times

Democrats Were Wrong on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Not the CRA bullshit again ? That's been so debunked it's ridiculous and nothing more than partisan bullshit to try in any way...to blame dem policies and dem policies you denigrate as such all of the time, that repubs endorsed...including Bush.

CRA loans were less than 5% of ALL mortgage loans, there was no enforcement action if any lender failed to make any CRA loans and furthermore, less than 1/2 of all CRA loans got behind.

That's at or less than 2 of every mort, and even if in foreclose, certainly...didn't bankrupt wall street.

The banking meltdown simply demonstrated the real moral hazard in even allowing such greed and fraud over shit-paper speculation to cause a collective multi-$trillion bankruptcy and the resulting gold-plated handout...er bailout.

Real conservatives know that too big to fail is...too big to exist. Not these rent-seeking whores we have on the right today.

You are in utter denial. Democrats forced the banks to write sub-prime loans, then (like you) become outraged toward them after the obvious ocurred

Bush warned seventeen times and tried to avert the disaster. Democrats insisted we continue headlong into disaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

Interesting but having lived through both Bush and McCain telling us don't look behind the curtain the Economy is going Great Guns till its collapse at the end of Bush's presidency

Why do you keep repeating the same lie after it has been proven to be a lie

Bush Called For Reform of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac 17 Times

Democrats Were Wrong on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac

Well let's see who's lying. Hmm, I don't see where I said anything about Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, so I would say that you're lying by trying to imply that I did.

What I actually did say was both Bush and McCain were claiming we had a good economy right up to the point that it became obvious to everyone else that not only did we not have a good economy but that we were on the verge of causing a world wide economic collapse.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

Bush and Mccain were screaming "look behind the curtain"

It was the Dims who said "no"

Bush was right, the Dims were wrong (as they mockingly called HIM an idiot)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

Bush and Mccain were screaming "look behind the curtain"

It was the Dims who said "no"

Bush was right, the Dims were wrong (as they mockingly called HIM an idiot)

Honestly, were you hiding in the closet at the end of Bush's Presidency? McCain was running on the "economic prosperity" we were supposed to be having and had to do an about face when the "economic prosperity" began to collapse.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

Bush and Mccain were screaming "look behind the curtain"

It was the Dims who said "no"

Bush was right, the Dims were wrong (as they mockingly called HIM an idiot)

Honestly, were you hiding in the closet at the end of Bush's Presidency? McCain was running on the "economic prosperity" we were supposed to be having and had to do an about face when the "economic prosperity" began to collapse.

Except that I backed my posts up with links to hard news articles. The best you have is to keep repeating the same mindless howler lies over and over again [:D]

(News flash - it was the Democrat's Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac disaster that caused the subprime meltdown)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Not the CRA bullshit again ? That's been so debunked it's ridiculous and nothing more than partisan bullshit to try in any way...to blame dem policies and dem policies you denigrate as such all of the time, that repubs endorsed...including Bush.

CRA loans were less than 5% of ALL mortgage loans, there was no enforcement action if any lender failed to make any CRA loans and furthermore, less than 1/2 of all CRA loans got behind.

That's at or less than 2 of every mort, and even if in foreclose, certainly...didn't bankrupt wall street.

The banking meltdown simply demonstrated the real moral hazard in even allowing such greed and fraud over shit-paper speculation to cause a collective multi-$trillion bankruptcy and the resulting gold-plated handout...er bailout.

Real conservatives know that too big to fail is...too big to exist. Not these rent-seeking whores we have on the right today.

You are in utter denial. Democrats forced the banks to write sub-prime loans, then (like you) become outraged toward them after the obvious ocurred

Bush warned seventeen times and tried to avert the disaster. Democrats insisted we continue headlong into disaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

Bush and Mccain were screaming "look behind the curtain"

It was the Dims who said "no"

Bush was right, the Dims were wrong (as they mockingly called HIM an idiot)

Honestly, were you hiding in the closet at the end of Bush's Presidency? McCain was running on the "economic prosperity" we were supposed to be having and had to do an about face when the "economic prosperity" began to collapse.

Except that I backed my posts up with links to hard news articles. The best you have is to keep repeating the same mindless howler lies over and over again [:D]

(News flash - it was the Democrat's Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac disaster that caused the subprime meltdown)

Actually you appear to be the howler, you keep sidestepping what I have said.

I have not said anything about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and yet you keep posting these "links to hard news articles" about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac like that is somehow what I am talking about.

What is wrong with you?

Could it be that you have nothing to answer what I'm saying and that is the reason you keep trying divert the conversation into some other topic?

I don't have to post links to back up what I'm saying because what I'm saying is common knowledge and it appears you maybe the only person in the US that doesn't know that McCain was running for President on the supposed "good economy" till it collapsed and then did a 180.

And if it was all the Democrats fault and Bush kept decrying that fact like you keep saying why didn't Bush during the 4 years that he had a Republican majority in the House and Senate fix the problem?

quote:

Frank's fingerprints are all over the financial fiasco

By Jeff Jacoby

Globe Columnist / September 28, 2008

'THE PRIVATE SECTOR got us into this mess. The government has to get us out of it."

That's Barney Frank's story, and he's sticking to it. As the Massachusetts Democrat has explained it in recent days, the current financial crisis is the spawn of the free market run amok, with the political class guilty only of failing to rein the capitalists in. The Wall Street meltdown was caused by "bad decisions that were made by people in the private sector," Frank said; the country is in dire straits today "thanks to a conservative philosophy that says the market knows best." And that philosophy goes "back to Ronald Reagan, when at his inauguration he said, 'Government is not the answer to our problems; government is the problem.' "

In fact, that isn't what Reagan said. His actual words were: "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." Were he president today, he would be saying much the same thing.

Because while the mortgage crisis convulsing Wall Street has its share of private-sector culprits -- many of whom have been learning lately just how pitiless the private sector’s discipline can be -- they weren't the ones who "got us into this mess." Barney Frank's talking points notwithstanding, mortgage lenders didn't wake up one fine day deciding to junk long-held standards of creditworthiness in order to make ill-advised loans to unqualified borrowers. It would be closer to the truth to say they woke up to find the government twisting their arms and demanding that they do so - or else.

The roots of this crisis go back to the Carter administration. That was when government officials, egged on by left-wing activists, began accusing mortgage lenders of racism and "redlining" because urban blacks were being denied mortgages at a higher rate than suburban whites.

The pressure to make more loans to minorities (read: to borrowers with weak credit histories) became relentless. Congress passed the Community Reinvestment Act, empowering regulators to punish banks that failed to "meet the credit needs" of "low-income, minority, and distressed neighborhoods." Lenders responded by loosening their underwriting standards and making increasingly shoddy loans. The two government-chartered mortgage finance firms, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, encouraged this "subprime" lending by authorizing ever more "flexible" criteria by which high-risk borrowers could be qualified for home loans, and then buying up the questionable mortgages that ensued.

All this was justified as a means of increasing homeownership among minorities and the poor. Affirmative-action policies trumped sound business practices. A manual issued by the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston advised mortgage lenders to disregard financial common sense. "Lack of credit history should not be seen as a negative factor," the Fed's guidelines instructed. Lenders were directed to accept welfare payments and unemployment benefits as "valid income sources" to qualify for a mortgage. Failure to comply could mean a lawsuit.

As long as housing prices kept rising, the illusion that all this was good public policy could be sustained. But it didn't take a financial whiz to recognize that a day of reckoning would come. "What does it mean when Boston banks start making many more loans to minorities?" I asked in this space in 1995. "Most likely, that they are knowingly approving risky loans in order to get the feds and the activists off their backs . . . When the coming wave of foreclosures rolls through the inner city, which of today's self-congratulating bankers, politicians, and regulators plans to take the credit?"

Frank doesn't. But his fingerprints are all over this fiasco. Time and time again, Frank insisted that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were in good shape. Five years ago, for example, when the Bush administration proposed much tighter regulation of the two companies, Frank was adamant that "these two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis." When the White House warned of "systemic risk for our financial system" unless the mortgage giants were curbed, Frank complained that the administration was more concerned about financial safety than about housing.

Now that the bubble has burst and the "systemic risk" is apparent to all, Frank blithely declares: "The private sector got us into this mess." Well, give the congressman points for gall. Wall Street and private lenders have plenty to answer for, but it was Washington and the political class that derailed this train. If Frank is looking for a culprit to blame, he can find one suspect in the nearest mirror.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

Frank's fingerprints are all over the financial fiasco

By Jeff Jacoby

Globe Columnist / September 28, 2008

'THE PRIVATE SECTOR got us into this mess. The government has to get us out of it."

That's Barney Frank's story, and he's sticking to it. As the Massachusetts Democrat has explained it in recent days, the current financial crisis is the spawn of the free market run amok, with the political class guilty only of failing to rein the capitalists in. The Wall Street meltdown was caused by "bad decisions that were made by people in the private sector," Frank said; the country is in dire straits today "thanks to a conservative philosophy that says the market knows best." And that philosophy goes "back to Ronald Reagan, when at his inauguration he said, 'Government is not the answer to our problems; government is the problem.' "

In fact, that isn't what Reagan said. His actual words were: "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." Were he president today, he would be saying much the same thing.

Because while the mortgage crisis convulsing Wall Street has its share of private-sector culprits -- many of whom have been learning lately just how pitiless the private sector’s discipline can be -- they weren't the ones who "got us into this mess." Barney Frank's talking points notwithstanding, mortgage lenders didn't wake up one fine day deciding to junk long-held standards of creditworthiness in order to make ill-advised loans to unqualified borrowers. It would be closer to the truth to say they woke up to find the government twisting their arms and demanding that they do so - or else.

The roots of this crisis go back to the Carter administration. That was when government officials, egged on by left-wing activists, began accusing mortgage lenders of racism and "redlining" because urban blacks were being denied mortgages at a higher rate than suburban whites.

The pressure to make more loans to minorities (read: to borrowers with weak credit histories) became relentless. Congress passed the Community Reinvestment Act, empowering regulators to punish banks that failed to "meet the credit needs" of "low-income, minority, and distressed neighborhoods." Lenders responded by loosening their underwriting standards and making increasingly shoddy loans. The two government-chartered mortgage finance firms, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, encouraged this "subprime" lending by authorizing ever more "flexible" criteria by which high-risk borrowers could be qualified for home loans, and then buying up the questionable mortgages that ensued.

All this was justified as a means of increasing homeownership among minorities and the poor. Affirmative-action policies trumped sound business practices. A manual issued by the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston advised mortgage lenders to disregard financial common sense. "Lack of credit history should not be seen as a negative factor," the Fed's guidelines instructed. Lenders were directed to accept welfare payments and unemployment benefits as "valid income sources" to qualify for a mortgage. Failure to comply could mean a lawsuit.

As long as housing prices kept rising, the illusion that all this was good public policy could be sustained. But it didn't take a financial whiz to recognize that a day of reckoning would come. "What does it mean when Boston banks start making many more loans to minorities?" I asked in this space in 1995. "Most likely, that they are knowingly approving risky loans in order to get the feds and the activists off their backs . . . When the coming wave of foreclosures rolls through the inner city, which of today's self-congratulating bankers, politicians, and regulators plans to take the credit?"

Frank doesn't. But his fingerprints are all over this fiasco. Time and time again, Frank insisted that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were in good shape. Five years ago, for example, when the Bush administration proposed much tighter regulation of the two companies, Frank was adamant that "these two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis." When the White House warned of "systemic risk for our financial system" unless the mortgage giants were curbed, Frank complained that the administration was more concerned about financial safety than about housing.

Now that the bubble has burst and the "systemic risk" is apparent to all, Frank blithely declares: "The private sector got us into this mess." Well, give the congressman points for gall. Wall Street and private lenders have plenty to answer for, but it was Washington and the political class that derailed this train. If Frank is looking for a culprit to blame, he can find one suspect in the nearest mirror.

More howler troll fallacies in 3, 2, 1...