RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill

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Marini -> RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill (12/22/2017 10:28:28 PM)
Bama, we could go round and round, on this as usual. Sliding scale, means people would pay for insurance, based on income. You can be healthy at 25, and not healthy at 75. You could be healthy all of your life, and have family members who are sick all their lives. I think it all comes out in the wash. I would rather see my tax money spent on free/or affordable health care, than the way it is almost always spent/squandered now. In fact, outside of the military, I can't think of a better use of federal and state tax money. The government can always bail out corporations, banks, everyone in other countries, yet can't subsidize health care for its own citizens? THAT makes no sense!

BamaD -> RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill (12/22/2017 10:33:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Bama, we could go round and round, on this as usual. Sliding scale, means people would pay for insurance, based on income. You can be healthy at 25, and not healthy at 75. You could be healthy all of your life, and have family members who are sick all their lives. I think it all comes out in the wash. I would rather see my tax money spent on free/or affordable health care, than the way it is almost always spent/squandered now. In fact, outside of the military, I can't think of a better use of federal and state tax money. The government can always bail out corporations, banks, everyone in other countries, yet can't subsidize health care for its own citizens? THAT makes no sense! As usual you think something that is obvious is deep. And no, it doesn't break even. The people who accomplish more pay more, period.

Marini -> RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill (12/22/2017 10:47:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Bama, we could go round and round, on this as usual. Sliding scale, means people would pay for insurance, based on income. You can be healthy at 25, and not healthy at 75. You could be healthy all of your life, and have family members who are sick all their lives. I think it all comes out in the wash. I would rather see my tax money spent on free/or affordable health care, than the way it is almost always spent/squandered now. In fact, outside of the military, I can't think of a better use of federal and state tax money. The government can always bail out corporations, banks, everyone in other countries, yet can't subsidize health care for its own citizens? THAT makes no sense! As usual you think something that is obvious is deep. And no, it doesn't break even. The people who accomplish more pay more, period. I am not sure where I said, this was "deep". I am giving my opinion, not talking points. I remember a period of not having health insurance about 25 years ago, and not qualifying for much of anything. It was a horrible state to be in. If this country can't provide or offer some sort of health insurance for ALL of its citizens, why in the world are we assisting everyone else in the damn world, and bailing out corporations? Having a conversation, does not mean you have to agree. I am form some form of universal health insurance in America, you are not. It is really that simple, and that deep.

BamaD -> RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill (12/23/2017 2:45:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Bama, we could go round and round, on this as usual. Sliding scale, means people would pay for insurance, based on income. You can be healthy at 25, and not healthy at 75. You could be healthy all of your life, and have family members who are sick all their lives. I think it all comes out in the wash. I would rather see my tax money spent on free/or affordable health care, than the way it is almost always spent/squandered now. In fact, outside of the military, I can't think of a better use of federal and state tax money. The government can always bail out corporations, banks, everyone in other countries, yet can't subsidize health care for its own citizens? THAT makes no sense! As usual you think something that is obvious is deep. And no, it doesn't break even. The people who accomplish more pay more, period. I am not sure where I said, this was "deep". I am giving my opinion, not talking points. I remember a period of not having health insurance about 25 years ago, and not qualifying for much of anything. It was a horrible state to be in. If this country can't provide or offer some sort of health insurance for ALL of its citizens, why in the world are we assisting everyone else in the damn world, and bailing out corporations? Having a conversation, does not mean you have to agree. I am form some form of universal health insurance in America, you are not. It is really that simple, and that deep. I was merely pointing out that there is no way this comes out even. The people make more pay more period. A sliding scale is simple but you seemed to assume I didn't understand. The problem is the more you make the more you pay for insurance , and the more taxes you pay to help pay for those who make less. As you get older you have a better retirement so you still pay more. The only way you can pretend that it sort of breaks even if you don't think that tax money counts. I know we will never agree but you are talking down to me and ignoring reality.

WhoreMods -> RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill (12/23/2017 4:40:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I'm sorry to say, Butch, but she's going to die. You're going to die. We're all going to die. With or without healthcare, we're all going to die. Period. It's one of the few guarantees in life. Maybe I'm a wet liberal, but I've always thought that the whole point of healthcare is that you might die a bit (or even a lot) later with it than you would without it. Tis true, that, not that that's the point. Whether you're a wet (or dry, or a mixture) liberal or not has nothing to do with it. If everyone has a right to healthcare, then what of someone who lives in an area without a provider? Where is that right then? The people in the UK have no right to healthcare. It is a privilege. It isn't a right. Without the NHS, where is that right? Can you walk up to a physician and demand to be given healthcare anywhere, any time? If you go to a physician's house at 3am and bang on his door until he answers, can you command him to provide care to you? Of course you can't. You'd likely have the police called on you. But, because of the NHS, you can walk into a care provider while that provider is open and get in line (if there is one) for help when you need it. It's a privilege, not a right. I'm old fashioned enough to think that if you've paid for something, then receiving it is a right rather than a privilege, but obviously that's not how libertarians look at public funded and state owned services they want to sell off to the private sector.

kdsub -> RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill (12/23/2017 7:04:44 AM)
Thanks Marini Yes she would easily qualify for Medicaid but she is employed... not making a lot of money... and feels as long as she can she should pay as much as she can. It is hard to keep a good job with her illness but she has little choice. These idiots here don't seem to understand that she could go on Medicaid and their tax dollar will be paying all of her care...if the program does not run out of money. Now she is paying something and that is sure better than nothing. Other countries have figured ways to pay for universal healthcare and it is working just fine. I would like to see us go that route but i would be satisfied with a compromise that at least provides truly affordable care for all responsible citizens. It would mean a tax increase but if handled properly the burden should be little more than the cost we are paying today for our healthcare. Butch

BamaD -> RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill (12/23/2017 7:47:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Thanks Marini Yes she would easily qualify for Medicaid but she is employed... not making a lot of money... and feels as long as she can she should pay as much as she can. It is hard to keep a good job with her illness but she has little choice. These idiots here don't seem to understand that she could go on Medicaid and their tax dollar will be paying all of her care...if the program does not run out of money. Now she is paying something and that is sure better than nothing. Other countries have figured ways to pay for universal healthcare and it is working just fine. I would like to see us go that route but i would be satisfied with a compromise that at least provides truly affordable care for all responsible citizens. It would mean a tax increase but if handled properly the burden should be little more than the cost we are paying today for our healthcare. Butch So she does have coverage .

BoscoX -> RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill (12/23/2017 8:43:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Thanks Marini Yes she would easily qualify for Medicaid but she is employed... not making a lot of money... and feels as long as she can she should pay as much as she can. It is hard to keep a good job with her illness but she has little choice. These idiots here don't seem to understand that she could go on Medicaid and their tax dollar will be paying all of her care...if the program does not run out of money. Now she is paying something and that is sure better than nothing. Other countries have figured ways to pay for universal healthcare and it is working just fine. I would like to see us go that route but i would be satisfied with a compromise that at least provides truly affordable care for all responsible citizens. It would mean a tax increase but if handled properly the burden should be little more than the cost we are paying today for our healthcare. Butch It’s pure fantasy that it works fine. Especially in every country that has adopted it. if you name a country (especially a country as large as the United States) that is trying it I can point out numerous horror stories. Bloated government bureaucracies are not efficient, nor do they care about your average Joe With a private healthcare system businesses are accountable to their customers and to the government. If the government is in charge of your life it is accountable to no one and the bureaucrats do whatever they want. You vote for senators and congressmen and the president but you do not vote for bureaucrats, and changing an entrenched system is practically impossible. The politicians will promise you the moon while delivering nothing better than shit sandwiches once elected President Trump keeps his promises, but he’s not your average politician.

MrRodgers -> RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill (12/23/2017 9:59:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Bama, we could go round and round, on this as usual. Sliding scale, means people would pay for insurance, based on income. You can be healthy at 25, and not healthy at 75. You could be healthy all of your life, and have family members who are sick all their lives. I think it all comes out in the wash. I would rather see my tax money spent on free/or affordable health care, than the way it is almost always spent/squandered now. In fact, outside of the military, I can't think of a better use of federal and state tax money. The government can always bail out corporations, banks, everyone in other countries, yet can't subsidize health care for its own citizens? THAT makes no sense! As usual you think something that is obvious is deep. And no, it doesn't break even. The people who accomplish more pay more, period. Break even ? What does that mean ? There are two things always missed when discussing tax rates on the high earner vs the poor. The progressive rates the west uses now have been argued for going back to 19th century Europe and even Adam Smith agreed that the higher income earner should pay at a higher rate. There were then and are still now, rather obvious reasons for that if you want anything like a stable and growing society. Do you know what Smith argued ? Otherwise, as for health care, the same arguments for all collective responsibilities apply. We can and all of western civilization with the lone exception of the US...does, collectivize health care just as in defense. The wealthy under a marketplace for such collective services like defense, would pay much more anyway because it's 'defense' insurance because they have more to lose. Health is a 'defense' against illness and death. One could that the immorality is present in the govt. doing with the private market could do but wants no part of it because of such a high risk. So when it come to banking/corp./finance, we have socialism for the rich. When it come to health care, the goal is capitalism for the poor.

kdsub -> RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill (12/23/2017 10:21:40 AM)
quote: The people make more pay more period. This is as it should be... damn ever watch The Christmas Carol? Or do you need to keep your penny's to buy more Guns?

kdsub -> RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill (12/23/2017 10:23:02 AM)
I seem to remember one of your Gods sneaking over the border for Canada's health insurance. Butch

BoscoX -> RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill (12/23/2017 11:26:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I seem to remember one of your Gods sneaking over the border for Canada's health insurance. Butch My "gods" Howler much

kdsub -> RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill (12/23/2017 11:29:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I seem to remember one of your Gods sneaking over the border for Canada's health insurance. Butch My "gods" Howler much Yes... I can see Russia from my bedroom window God

BoscoX -> RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill (12/23/2017 11:36:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I seem to remember one of your Gods sneaking over the border for Canada's health insurance. Butch My "gods" Howler much Yes... I can see Russia from my bedroom window God You are still confused Saturday Night Live is not the real world

kdsub -> RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill (12/23/2017 11:51:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I seem to remember one of your Gods sneaking over the border for Canada's health insurance. Butch My "gods" Howler much Yes... I can see Russia from my bedroom window God You are still confused Saturday Night Live is not the real world It seems to have served her well. And check this out...compare the us to any civilized country...then tell me how great our healthcare is and was before Obamacare. Butch

BoscoX -> RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill (12/23/2017 12:25:14 PM)
"Life expectancy" is not necessarily a good indicator of a healthcare system, and in many of those reports there's someone with an agenda holding their thumb on the scale Americans are fat, for example. Fat and sassy, because we eat like kings. And we like to drive fast cars while high as fuck Gang banger punks from Latin America and inner cities love to live dangerously. We have different reporting criteria for infant deaths, which skews the results You know these things, you have been told a hundred times But we can't expect someone like you to debate honestly though, can we

kdsub -> RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill (12/23/2017 12:29:30 PM)
Yea right... I would say living longer is the hole point of a healthcare system. Butch

Marini -> RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill (12/23/2017 12:52:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX "Life expectancy" is not necessarily a good indicator of a healthcare system, and in many of those reports there's someone with an agenda holding their thumb on the scale Americans are fat, for example. Fat and sassy, because we eat like kings. And we like to drive fast cars while high as fuck Gang banger punks from Latin America and inner cities love to live dangerously. We have different reporting criteria for infant deaths, which skews the results You know these things, you have been told a hundred times But we can't expect someone like you to debate honestly though, can we You seem to be a bit nicer, could be the holiday spirit. Out of curiosity, why do you think American citizens should not have access to free/or sliding scale health care? Again, I said SLIDING scale, which has not been discussed much, because I think people should always pay something, based on their ability to pay. I think we should continue to offer the current health care choices, along with the free/sliding scale health care. I am happy with my CareFirst Blue Cross Blue Shield, and I want to keep it. Those that do not have access/nor can't afford health care, should have the option of the free/sliding scale/government subsidized health care. I hope someone starts a thread dealing with health care in America/it deserves its own thread.

bounty44 -> RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill (12/23/2017 1:25:12 PM)
marini, it ultimately boils down to, as with most things, essential differences between left and right. one side believes in the power of the free market to achieve desirable ends, and the other side believes in government. is there really anything more to say than that that somehow changes that formulation? this bears repeating---every product and service we have and value in life has been made better and less expensive by the free market. why should healthcare be an exception to that rule? the reason we are in the mess we are presently in is because of government intrusion AND insurance.

Marini -> RE: Senate to vote soon on tax bill (12/23/2017 1:37:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 marini, it ultimately boils down to, as with most things, essential differences between left and right. one side believes in the power of the free market to achieve desirable ends, and the other side believes in government. is there really anything more to say than that that somehow changes that formulation? this bears repeating---every product and service we have and value in life has been made better and less expensive by the free market. why should healthcare be an exception to that rule? the reason we are in the mess we are presently in is because of government intrusion AND insurance. We did agree to disagree.

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