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RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/24/2024 8:55:10 AM   
wickedsdesires


Posts: 362
Joined: 10/25/2008
Status: offline 		I rarely mention Israel should not be there. When I say that I mean the country should not exist. Arabs, Christians and Jew lived in harmony 2000 plus years before 1947, or the 1900s. Empires had an annoying habit of looking to extend sphere and influence the last couple of hundred years. That was the way of the world, and to an extent is still is.

The version of country where Arabs, Christians and Jews live in Harmony should exist. Well, as much as those three can live in peace.
I accept the Israelis are there but I am ordering on say remove the lot. Those that can trace their birthplace to 1900-1950 can stay. Israel have displaced 85% of Gaza, killed 13,000 children, women, then men, and a dozen Hamas form a population of 2 million.

Israel has no right to govern Gaza. Will they govern it like the rest or the settlements?

If they want to overthrow Hamas then they do that and fuck off. The problem is with the Coventry and Dresden going on there they have created a good 100,000 Hamas ideological types for the next lifetime of 100 years. I haven't even mentioned 75% of Gaza is starving and have no food, let alone medical aid or medicine.

I sometimes say I prefer a one state solution. I know the Palestinian and Jew population is around 8 million each.

No matter how you look at it it is the Gazians that have to eat shit and be the better people. The Jews have did a Nazi on them. Of all people the jews should know best of all.

Gaza is basically used as a proxy. People like Hamas, Putin, Kim Trump get into power for reasons. Israel is also used as a proxy particularly by. America.

Netenyahu, his government and his Nazi right wing cohalition have no interest. They never did.






(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/25/2024 9:20:57 AM   
MasterJaguar01


Posts: 2340
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wickedsdesires

I rarely mention Israel should not be there. When I say that I mean the country should not exist. Arabs, Christians and Jew lived in harmony 2000 plus years before 1947, or the 1900s. Empires had an annoying habit of looking to extend sphere and influence the last couple of hundred years. That was the way of the world, and to an extent is still is.

You are certainly entitled to this opinion.

quote:


The version of country where Arabs, Christians and Jews live in Harmony should exist. Well, as much as those three can live in peace.


As it happens, Arabs, Christians, and Jews live in harmony and peace in Israel. Arabs have a political party in Israeli politics. Further, the Arab party is part of the ruling coalition and has seats in the Knesset.

quote:


Israel has no right to govern Gaza. Will they govern it like the rest or the settlements?

Israel has every right to protect its security and ensure that Gaza is free of terrorists. I pray that Netanyahu, will be removed and that Gaza will be part of a Palestinian state.

quote:


If they want to overthrow Hamas then they do that and fuck off.

If this means what I think it means, then I agree.


(in reply to wickedsdesires)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/26/2024 8:25:23 AM   
wickedsdesires


Posts: 362
Joined: 10/25/2008
Status: offline 		20% of the current population of Israel are "Arabs". I am not sure what you are getting at? Anytime before 1900-1950 Jews would be in the minority. If we ignore most of them are discriminated against and perceived as second class citizens then yes they live in a sort of harmony.

Every country has the right to defend itself but no country has the right to wipe another from the face of the planet by committing war crimes. omething similar happened to the Jews. They should know better.

Odd that America allows some 50,000 gun deaths and 100,000 drug deaths annually and yet you dont use your logic on them? Then we have issues like all illegal American Wars and places like Afghanistan. Rwanda and North Korea to name some others.

The UN is supposed to serve a purpose yet Israel ignore them. I am not even sure they are a member although that could be the ICJ. No one in the UN should have a veto either.

I do see many of the points you mention, and trying to make. Not that I agree with most of your logic. More so because you don't use if for the Palestinians.

I would like to see a one State solution. I will speculate a good 20% of both sides would go for that. I don't think it will be as high as 50%.

For a 2 State solution both sides need to concede ground. Israel a couple of steps, Palestinians many paces. That is the cost of peace. A % of each want to wipe the other side from the planet.

As for Hamas. They are essentially a terror cell running the country of Gaza. Netanyahu is little different, worse because what he did for power and who he went into business with. They are actually worse than the Nazis or akin to my description of Hamas being a terror cell.

Gaza, Palestine and Israel are used as Proxies. That is actually the one reason why Israel was created in the first place.

Given the slaughter going on in Gaza I would say they have every right to defend themselves.

I am speculating Israel has just created 100,000 people who will stop at nothing to wipe Israel out. It could be more. Some will go to Hamas ideology.


(in reply to MasterJaguar01)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/27/2024 4:30:06 PM   
JVoV


Posts: 3650
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: offline 		I call bullshit on the whole living in harmony thing. The Crusades didn't happen cuz harmony.

(in reply to wickedsdesires)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Israel is "now at war" - 2/28/2024 9:10:03 AM   
wickedsdesires


Posts: 362
Joined: 10/25/2008
Status: offline 		Wars through the ages will do that.

Israel is sort of unique population wise. Israel is a demographic outlier when it comes to population growth as a developed country. In 1948, Israel had only 806,000 people, but experienced a 10-fold population increase by 2013, largely due to immigration of Jews from other countries.
1948, 806,000, 1974, 3,422,000, 2000, 6,289,000. 1949, 1,174,000, 1975, 3,493,000, 2001, 6,460,000. 1950, 1,370,000, 1976, 3,575,000, 2002, 6,600,000.

If you are interested https://www.prb.org/resources/israels-demography-has-a-unique-history/


(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Israel is "now at war" - 3/5/2024 7:13:30 AM   
JVoV


Posts: 3650
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: offline 		Perhaps the uniqueness of Israel's population is related to religious persecution throughout the world. Some of the Israeli Jews fled other Arab countries. The Palestinians aren't welcome into any of these same Muslim countries as refugees either. The situation is fucked up.

The people of Gaza have to decide to be rid of Hamas on their own, or another snake will take its place.

(in reply to wickedsdesires)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Israel is "now at war" - 3/9/2024 6:07:46 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		The real tragedy is that ALL of this is nothing but faith-based war, th same thing that has been going on in one way or another for about 100,000 to 150,000 years.

Man has always been at war with man over resources, and then their gods and their f a i t h. No different than suicide bombers kill themselves in faith-based murder.

The whole ME problem is just more faith-based violence and murder.

Oh and a few facts that may change one's perspective somewhat.

Out of the last 3,400 years the 'Jews' have occupied that land for only 400 years.

No country 'has-a-right' the UN specifically said so in 1947 and the UN had no power to create a new country within another.

Yet, the US, UK and USSR all conspired to create just that and that meant...fuck the Palestinians.

As one US senator suggested years later, just imagine what would have happened if [they] had put the new state of Israel in Oregon for example. I say why not Pa....a lot more room.

Why, only because of religious faith making god a real estate broker. And yet another example of how religion poisons everything.


_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to wickedsdesires)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Israel is "now at war" - 3/15/2024 8:29:09 AM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11214
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
religion poisons everything.



Q. How is a godless communist like a vampire?

A. Neither has ever seen himself in a mirror.

quote:

100 Years of Communism—and 100 Million Dead

The Bolshevik plague that began in Russia was the greatest catastrophe in human history.



< Message edited by BoscoX -- 3/15/2024 8:31:12 AM >

_____________________________

Thought Criminal

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Israel is "now at war" - 3/15/2024 1:41:34 PM   
JVoV


Posts: 3650
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: offline 		Holy shit! It's Bsco! I thought you died. Or just got bored. Hard to tell around here.

I don't think religion is bad. I do think that any sort of fanaticism or 'one twu way' thinking is just trouble though. But really, if all the Jews and Muslims over there would just find Jesus, they'd get along better. For a while, until they broke apart into denominations.

I am a Christian, as in I believe in Jesus Christ and what he stands for and preached. That was hard to deal with as I was coming out as gay to myself. But I don't feel evil, or outside of God's love. I also know that any sort of organized religion is pretty much like a cult, controlling and manipulating it's followers. Honestly, I can't even bring myself to wear a cross, because I believe that to be idolatry, but that's a personal thing, not that I think anybody wearing a cross needs to die and be sent to hell.

Now, regardless of religion, Israel is a strategic ally that the US needs in the Middle East. It would be better for us if it were a more secular political nation, but it is what it is, and we have to accept it as that, even if we disagree.

I don't think any of us agree with every decision Israeli leaders have made. Hell, most of us don't agree with every decision our own leaders make. But we Americans certainly understand that the nation of Israel has a right to exist and to defend itself. Really, with Hamas having taken American hostages, I say carpet bomb the mofos Ted Cruz style. Or just send Cruz over there. That'll teach em. But when Americans are taken hostage or attacked, anywhere in the world, I have absolutely no sympathy for the attackers or their causes, however just they may believe them to be.

I won't put words in Boaco's mouth, but I believe we can agree on one thing, at least. DO NOT FUCK WITH AMERICA.

No matter who our President is, bad thi gs will happen to anyone that dares. It's usually worse under a Republican, or at least more obvious and forthright.

Of course, I don't believe Trump is a Republican in truth. Certainly not like Reagan or either if the Bushes. Oh how I miss the days Reagan would just bomb people and then eat a handful of jelly beans. We never get to bomb anybody anymore.

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Israel is "now at war" - 3/15/2024 4:11:18 PM   
MasterJaguar01


Posts: 2340
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: offline 		1. HAMAS needs to surrender immediately and release the Hostages
2. Israel needs to cease all hostilities.
3. Israel needs an immediate vote of "no confidence" in Netanyahu and try him for treason for facilitating the funding of Hamas
4. The US. needs to get the Arab gulf states to rebuild Gaza
5. They need to agree on borders for a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza with the Capital in Ramallah, with ability to visit Jerusalem.
6. There needs to be an international peacekeeping force monitoring all activity in the Palestinian state for any Hamas activity
7. Hamas needs to be recognized worldwide as a terrorist organization and dealt with accordingly

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Israel is "now at war" - 3/16/2024 7:33:50 PM   
MasterJaguar01


Posts: 2340
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX
quote:

100 Years of Communism—and 100 Million Dead

The Bolshevik plague that began in Russia was the greatest catastrophe in human history.





I could not agree more!

Welcome back my friend!

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Israel is "now at war" - 3/17/2024 11:57:49 AM   
MasterJaguar01


Posts: 2340
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

1. HAMAS needs to surrender immediately and release the Hostages
2. Israel needs to cease all hostilities.
3. Israel needs an immediate vote of "no confidence" in Netanyahu and try him for treason for facilitating the funding of Hamas
4. The US. needs to get the Arab gulf states to rebuild Gaza
5. They need to agree on borders for a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza with the Capital in Ramallah, with ability to visit Jerusalem.
6. There needs to be an international peacekeeping force monitoring all activity in the Palestinian state for any Hamas activity
7. Hamas needs to be recognized worldwide as a terrorist organization and dealt with accordingly



The Palestinian state will HAVE to involve some rollback of the Israeli land grabs since Oslo.

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Israel is "now at war" - 3/17/2024 6:49:21 PM   
JVoV


Posts: 3650
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: offline 		Ugh. I can't even wrap my head around all the problems in Russia, China, or any other country. I'm sure they think the same of the US though.

How many Americans have died in the last 100 years because of government action, or inaction?

Don't get me wrong, other countries can and should strive to do better, but so should we.

I would probably get stoned to death in a Palestine, whereas in Israel, I'd only get hosed. Yeah, gay rights really isn't a thing in any religious-controlled country. Not that anti-religious countries are much better. Looking at Russia and China here.

We should put glitter in all our bombs. That shit gets everywhere. Plus it's shiny.


(in reply to MasterJaguar01)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Israel is "now at war" - 5/20/2024 7:49:51 AM   
JVoV


Posts: 3650
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: offline 		ICC prosecutors are now trying to arrest Hamas and Israeli leaders, including Netenyahu. Seeking warrants or something.


(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Israel is "now at war" - 6/17/2024 12:17:41 PM   
wickedsdesires


Posts: 362
Joined: 10/25/2008
Status: offline 		I haven't seen you in a very long time? "as JVoV said - I thought you died (too)"

100 million you wont be far off if you are talking about Stalin but I don't think it was the Bolsheviks. Communism does not exist. It never has.


(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Israel is "now at war" - 7/3/2024 11:00:35 AM   
MasterJaguar01


Posts: 2340
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wickedsdesires

Communism does not exist. It never has.



100% true, Except for:

1. All of the former USSR
2. Former USSR Satellites
a. Poland
b. Hungary
c Former Czechoslovakia
d. Romania
e. Bulgaria
f. Former East Germany
g. Albania
h. Estonia
i. Latvia
j. Lithuania
k. Belorussia
l. Former Yugoslavia

3. Cuba
4. North Korea
5. China up to the 2000's
6. Former Cambodia
7. Vietnam up to the 1980's


Just a few minor exceptions there! Great point!

(in reply to wickedsdesires)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Israel is "now at war" - 7/4/2024 4:12:50 AM   
JVoV


Posts: 3650
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: offline 		Communism exists as an ideal, where everyone works towards the greater good. This, like any economic theory, only works in a complete vacuum.
Without protections in place, it is easy to manipulate this system.
Unfortunately, capitalism also needs protections in place to work for everyone involved. I think the current term for this is 'democratic socialism'.

Politics has to control the economy, but if politicians are corrupted at all, the system fails. It's rare that anyone's politics are altruistic and morals always come at a cost. Sometimes, that can be a luxury some people can't afford. Sure, we all raise hell when we're told about big brand name shoes using child labor in China, but how many people ask questions about $10 WalMart shoes?

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Israel is "now at war" - 7/13/2024 2:41:46 AM   
MasterJaguar01


Posts: 2340
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
Communism exists as an ideal, where everyone works towards the greater good.


Communism exists now and in the past in the countries I listed. Communism fails miserably with any human population where people have individual hopes and dreams.

BTW: No one talks about this but the nomadic Native Tribes of the plains (e.g. the Sioux) (in the 19th and early 20th century when they were still nomadic) were PURE Communist. (And it worked great!) If you were staying with and travelling with the tribe, your job was assigned by the tribal elders. Everything you did was for the benefit of the tribe.

It works great if you are out camping and everyone needs to survive as a group. It just doesn't scale.
(kinda like Single payer healthcare)

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Israel is "now at war" - 7/13/2024 2:55:18 AM   
blnymph


Posts: 1598
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
... But really, if all the Jews and Muslims over there would just find Jesus, they'd get along better. ...



Holy sh.. why do you lose him all the time and need other folks who might have better things to do, to find him? Can't you take better care? Why don't you start looking for him where you had him last for sure?
Elende Schlamperei.

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Israel is "now at war" - 7/28/2024 7:29:01 PM   
JVoV


Posts: 3650
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: offline 		Hezbelliah has attacked Israel, killing several children. The attack came from Lebanon.

I'm sure Israel will respond soon, though hopefully their return fire will be more targeted towards Hezbollah itself and not innocents.

(in reply to blnymph)
Profile   Post #: 80
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