America's "support" for ME democracy... (Full Version)

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CrappyDom -> America's "support" for ME democracy... (7/30/2006 10:55:30 PM)

In writing another thread on the ME I wondered how many times the US got involved in "helping" democracy spread in the ME.  While I am sure this list is a bit slanted politically, I thought it might be interesting to those who think we were attacked out of the blue on 9/11 "for no reason at all" and simply because Muslims are evil pricks bent on destruction of the West.  Oh, and isn't the oil angle interesting.  What isn't mentioned on this lis the the fact that Bush's daddy's only "humanitarian" effort involved helping the poor Somali people....it of course had nothing to do with the fact that there are untapped oil reserves off of Somali's coast!

So the US has organized coups in Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Iran, Syria, Iraq,  and Libya.  
  • 1947 - A CIA-Army `political action team' mounts a coup, making Gen. Husni Za'im leader of Syria.  Two subsequent, US-backed coups backfired.
  • 1952 - The US helps engineer a coup against British puppet ruler of Egypt, King Farouk. CIA backs a young colonel, Gammal Abdel Nasser.  Nasser rebels and becomes America's enemy number one. CIA tries first to overthrow, than assassinate Nasser. All attempts fail.
  • 1953 - Iran's popular, elected leader, Mohammed Mossadegh, attempts to assert Iranian control of his nation's oil industry, whose profits go to the US and Britain. A CIA coup overthrows Mossadegh, and puts `our boy' Reza Shah on the throne.
  • 1957/58 - US and Britain thwart popular uprisings against King Hussein of Jordan.
  • 1958 - Washington installs a client regime in Lebanon, which then dutifully calls for US troops. Beginning of Lebanon's 35 years of instability and civil war.
  • 1958 - Britain's Iraqi puppets, King Faisal and Nuri as-Said, overthrown by the bloodthirsty Col.Kassim. US uses Kassim to attack Nasser. Kassim murdered by Col. Aref in CIA-mounted coup. Aref's helicopter blown up. A few more murders later, CIA helps engineer into power a promising, young, Baath Party enforcer, Saddam Hussein.
  • 1960 - Anwar Sadat goes on CIA payroll. After Nasser's death, CIA puts Sadat into power in Egypt. Corrupt and hated, Sadat is assassinated to great popular joy.
  • 1969 - The US elbows Britain out of Libya to gain control of its high-grade oil. CIA overthrows British puppet, King Idris, and - in one of its most brilliant moves - helps into power a young, reformist colonel, Muammar Khadaffi. When Khadaffi subsequently trumpets the Arabs are being robbed of their oil by the west, and raises prices, he goes unto America's hit list.
  • 1976 - US, Iran and Israel secretly arm Iraq's Kurds and promote their rebellion to destabilize Iraq. Kurdish revolt plays major role in igniting Iran-Iraq War 1980-1988 in which one million died. US abandons Kurds, gets chummy with Baghdad.
  • 1980 - Saddam Hussein becomes America's most important Mideast ally in trying to crush Iran's Islamic revolution. Urged on, armed and financed by the US, Saddam invades Iran in 1980. CIA and Pentagon supply military advice and intelligence on Iran. US and British intelligence help Iraq obtain its chemical and biological warfare capabilities.
  • 1983 - US attempts to install a client, Christian/fascist regime in Lebanon, drive out Syrian influence. US Marines sent to Beirut, under cover of `peace-keepers.' They are bombed out of Lebanon by Shia militants: 309 Americans die, including CIA's top Mideast staff.
  • 1985 - CIA's revenge backfires. Lebanese CIA agents detonate truck bomb in Beirut in a failed attempt to assassinate Shia leader, Sheik Fadlallah. Eighty-three civilians killed, 240 wounded.
  • 1986 - US tries to assassinate Khadaffi by bombing his residence in Tripoli. One baby daughter killed, one injured. He escapes. Downing of Pan Am and French UTA flights may be revenge for this failed hit. Three other attempt to assassinate Khadaffi, using CIA-organized Libyan exiles, fail.
  • 1996 - The Bay of Camels - CIA's biggest flop since Cuba. Urged on by President Clinton, CIA mounts an elaborate coup against Saddam Hussein. Iraqi exiles, armed and trained by CIA, to march on Baghdad from US/British ruled Kurdistan. CIA organizes a cabal of generals to assassinate Saddam. Public places in Baghdad are bombed, many civilians killed, in order to `destabilize' Iraq (this while the US is busy denouncing terrorism). But Saddam's spies have infiltrated the plot. The whole operation collapses. CIA's agent network in Iraq is rolled up. Many Kurds back Saddam, turn on pro-US Kurds. CIA agents in Kurdistan run for their lives, abandoning allies and tons of documents. Saddam is strengthened. CIA's inept Director, John Deutch, fired for this Mother of All Fiascos.




MasterKalif -> RE: America's "support" for ME democracy... (7/31/2006 12:22:39 AM)

I know some people are gonna hate this....but I prefer a "coup" rather than massive bombings and massively destabilizing countries as in Iraq today....in any case, by my standards, Iraq left the civilized path in 1958 after the hashemite monarchy was overthrown there. Same with the overthrow of King Idriss in Libya by Ghadaffi in 1969....Syria's real downfall began with the coup of Haffez Al-Assad, an old school socialist today succeeded by his son, Bashar Al-Assad...I still remember how CNN stupidly thought Bashar would be a democrat and a good guy because he studied in Britain....ha ha ha!

in terms of Iran....It would have been fantastic if the Shah was still in power today rather than those backward Mullahs governing Iran today....Iran has gone backwards since 1979, after so many years of growth, prosperity, and civility....but oh well....as for Mohageh, he was a socialist with pro-soviet simpathies which was also not beneficial for Iran....however, he is also prefered over those Ayatollahs...[:'(]

Thats what I think.




MasDom -> RE: America's "support" for ME democracy... (7/31/2006 12:34:17 AM)

[8D] Give me 200 well trained snipers, 100 black opss people ,and 300 propaganda opps from the CIA

I,ll have Kims head by the end of the month.
all nukes decomissioned,  and peace in all nations.

Silence the cries for war with lies of peace.
 
Untill all people beleive in life again.
then take away the people who used lies to make war for their own gain and power.

simply make them silent.

every body go's home and back to the ruble.
    [&o] pick up the peices.




MasterKalif -> RE: America's "support" for ME democracy... (7/31/2006 12:49:05 AM)

heres another thought as well....the US has little choice right now but to support those corrupt dictators in the Middle East simply because their opponents are more nasty, deadlier, and far less democratic than those dictators themselves...if you dont think so, remember what happened in Iran in 1979.

For example, it is wrong for the US to push Hosni Mubarak of Egypt to have complete free elections and western style democracy because his opponents made mostly of Islamic radicals such as the muslim brotherhood, will gain the upper hand...it would be disastrous. Same in Syria (although dont thhink the radicals could be worse than the Al-Assad regime)...and to top it off, the only "democracy" or closest to a western style democracy in the region, Lebanon, is bombed with no mercy by America's ally, Israel...so what do you think is the message? could not be clearer....democracy is just a fancy word to be used by those dictators, the US knows this but looks good as if promoting democracy, but could really not care less.




meatcleaver -> RE: America's "support" for ME democracy... (7/31/2006 12:52:05 AM)

Yep. The only thing that is surprising about this is the CIA's utter ineptitude. Perhaps that is why Bush the younger, preferred invasion?

Anti-Americanism is not surprising when one begins to realise the extent of American interference in the world. The problem for America is not that it is doing what no other empires have done before it but it declares itself to be on the side of freedom and democracy while it tries to install its puppets. At least Britian didn't pretend to be anything but an empire, rather than an empire that dare not speak its name like the US.




meatcleaver -> RE: America's "support" for ME democracy... (7/31/2006 12:59:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterKalif

heres another thought as well....the US has little choice right now but to support those corrupt dictators in the Middle East simply because their opponents are more nasty, deadlier, and far less democratic than those dictators themselves...if you dont think so, remember what happened in Iran in 1979.



This theory doesn't stand up to scrutiny because many countries were relatively free of radicals before foreign interference. Egypt in point. The galling thing is, that the US was not only undermining governments but undermining the foreign policy of its so called allies for its own ends.

Though I have never taken the line that the US is a close allie of Britain and why I and many Brits get angry with Blair for allying himself too close to the US instead of Europe.




MasterKalif -> RE: America's "support" for ME democracy... (7/31/2006 1:04:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterKalif

heres another thought as well....the US has little choice right now but to support those corrupt dictators in the Middle East simply because their opponents are more nasty, deadlier, and far less democratic than those dictators themselves...if you dont think so, remember what happened in Iran in 1979.



This theory doesn't stand up to scrutiny because many countries were relatively free of radicals before foreign interference. Egypt in point. The galling thing is, that the US was not only undermining governments but undermining the foreign policy of its so called allies for its own ends.

Though I have never taken the line that the US is a close allie of Britain and why I and many Brits get angry with Blair for allying himself too close to the US instead of Europe.

well the thing is that was exactly my point...if there hadnt been any interference, then everything would be different, maybe better....but my point is that now, after years of meddling, now being a time where radicals do exist in those countries, the US will have to support them even if mildly because the option of not is much worse.




peterK50 -> RE: America's "support" for ME democracy... (7/31/2006 5:16:37 AM)

This is just business, don't make it personal. Back in the early 80's a business seminar guru whose name I have forgotten said "Out of chaos comes opportunity". Chaos has been created in the richest & most unstable region in the world. Haliburton has taken the opportunity & is making billions. Bechtel it was reported yesterday is 50% over budget & a year behind in a hospital project in Iraq. The State Dept. is hiding expenses in Iraq from Congress [thanks Condi]. In general it's one big money maker for certain American businesses.What Deepthroat had to say in the 70's is still relevant today. "Follow the money"




mnottertail -> RE: America's "support" for ME democracy... (7/31/2006 5:29:42 AM)

Peter, the guy's name was Peters...shouldn't be so hard to recall........lol.

Kalif, man......
that is so unprovable and so wrong.  So our expertise in foriegn affairs, our expert and incontravertable knowledge of towel heads puts us in positionto dictate which bad guy goes in......so we have some glitzy cardboard wheel calculator that says bad Khadaffi goes in but bad Saddam is out?  Who was the actuarial for that little ciphering job?

Crappy, Shah an Shahs actual last name was Pavali.....I went to highschool with relatives of his. (still factual what you wrote) ... we did a few other things over in that area not on your bullets, but wtf, we are only talking about our adroit ability to interfere and stabalize the middle east........something we have demonstrated time and again..........


LOLOLOL.
Ron 




philosophy -> RE: America's "support" for ME democracy... (7/31/2006 6:03:43 AM)

didn't Condy say something along the lines of  'our interventions in the middle east have perhaps been motivated more by concerns for american security rather than concern for democracy, and is so doing have achieved neither' ?

apologies for the horrendous misquote, bit i think that was the gist of it




pahunkboy -> RE: America's "support" for ME democracy... (7/31/2006 6:31:32 AM)

hmmm- i did not see how the cia "crack-ed"  as in drugs  LA and other big cities to pay for the contra war....

my point is the cia would/could/did maniuplate americans as well-




Lashra -> RE: America's "support" for ME democracy... (7/31/2006 6:46:06 AM)

The US should help spread democracy within its own shores first, instead of taking away its citizens rights. Everyday our rights are chipped away and the administration points fingers at other countries saying how oppressive they are, yet here in the land of the free we aren't so free anymore. Who is being oppressed? Ask any gay/lesbian, female, transgender, nonchristian, any other race then white they will tell you who/

~Lashra




CrappyDom -> RE: America's "support" for ME democracy... (7/31/2006 6:52:14 AM)

Remeber Carter set us on the path to energy independence and thus freedom from the ME.  It was Raygun who gutted and destroyed the plan and created the future we are stuck with.




Termyn8or -> RE: America's "support" for ME democracy... (7/31/2006 6:59:45 AM)

Crappydom, I see now. They do hate our freedom and democracy. No wonder. Our version of freedom and democracy has a few twists. It is a very special and sacred freedom and democracy.

We are indeed the land of the fee and the home of the slave. They just don't know how good it is here. Yes the government takes almost all of our money away, but we got the freedom of mastercard. And don't worry about maxing it out, we are free to mortgage our house and pay it off so we are free to buy more videogames, bigscreen TVs to play them on and SUVs in which to go to the mall. We are free to buy as many gallons of gas we want.

We are free to protest against the President as long as we are out of his, and the media's, sight. We are free to get car insurance from a number of different companies, whether we drive like an asshole or have never had an accident. And of course anyone can become President. Isn't that what they told us in school ? Must be true, because GWB is not even qualified to work in a car wash.

We have freedom of religion, oops, Odinists are considered a hate group. Lemme think here, there has to be some freedom of some sort I haven't mentioned.

AAAA, there are the freedoms we don't try to spread around. We have the freedom not to vote. More and more people are exercising that freedom these days. After seeing tweedle-dick and tweedle-dumber on TV they want to stay home or write in a candidate, such as Kermit the frog or Bullwinkle.

Yes indeed things have come full circle, Arabs DO hate our freedom and democracy and there are no doubts in my mind as to why. Our freedom and democracy is just a name. We live in an Ogliarchy. We have the freedom to pay, and pay and pay and pay.

Yes, we have the freedom to bomb any country that can't fight back, and to say who is allowed to have weapons and who is not, around the globe. We have the freedom to take Palestine and give it away, from right under the Palestinian's feet. We have the freedom to help the Israelis gain their independence from Palestine, just like we won our independence from the Native Americans.

We have the freedom to have military bases in a hundred countries or more. We have the freedom to go to jail for shouting fire in a crowded theater, I mean when there really IS a fire. We have the freedom to watch cop shows on TV and see people get thrown in jail when they did not hurt anyone. We have the freedom to go to jail for so many things now they had to build more.

We have so much freedom we need to spread it across the globe, and our version of democracy is of course, the best there ever was. They will have freedom and democracy even if we have to kill every last one of them.

We have the freedom to use any definition for any word we want, for example the second amendment, shall not be infringed now means shall be infringed. Shall not establish a religion means that no public expression of religion is permitted, even the ten commandments.

The list goes on, but my point is, GWB actually has inadvertently spoken the truth, they do hate our freedom and democracy. I don't wonder why. I am not too crazy about it myself. And don't tell me to love it or leave it, I will stay and fight until my last dying gasp. I am not the one trying to take people's rights away.

By the way, the US is not supposed to be a democracy, surprised ? It is supposed to be a republic. When we recited a poem by rote in school pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth, it was "and to the republic for which it stands", not the democracy.

Oh, I thought of another one, we have the freedom to get things on the ballot and vote on them, and to have our decisions countermanded by a remote federal authority. Stopping aid for illegal immigrants in California and legalized euthenasia in Oregon come to mind.

True leaders think of themselves as servants, that is they take actions that they believe will benefit those they lead. At one time this may have been true, but when those who are led no longer have a choice as to who leads them, things happen. The things that are happening now.

Yes indeed they hate our freedom and democracy, wouldn't you ?

OK, so much for the rant.

T




Lordandmaster -> RE: America's "support" for ME democracy... (7/31/2006 7:43:56 AM)

OK, I'm confused.  Does "ME" stand for "Millennium Edition"?  God damn that was a lousy operating system.




Termyn8or -> RE: America's "support" for ME democracy... (7/31/2006 7:45:39 AM)

LaM;

You're joking right ? It means Middle East.

T




Lordandmaster -> RE: America's "support" for ME democracy... (7/31/2006 7:49:36 AM)

Ohhhhhh...now I get it...




mnottertail -> RE: America's "support" for ME democracy... (7/31/2006 8:11:43 AM)

Tres Merde, that OS was.




LotusSong -> RE: America's "support" for ME democracy... (7/31/2006 8:56:15 AM)

Pllllllllease don't tell me you just figured this out!

An aside:  There is a program done in 2005 on the Discovery channel about Armageddon this week.. Check it out.




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