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RE: is she a sub?? - 12/13/2004 12:39:37 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RL

She will not go to a theraptist. Says she is too ashamed to even tell a professional.
So.....i have been trying to help her the best i can
which is not very good apparentlt
Thanks
RL



The horrible thing about mental illness is that one symptom of the diesease is a refusal to get treatment.

This is where your job as a friend comes in.

Believe me, therapists have see it all.


_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to RL)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: is she a sub?? - 12/13/2004 1:49:53 PM   
RL


Posts: 16
Joined: 4/3/2004
Status: offline 		I agre that SHE NEEDS Professional; therapy but she WILL NOT GO, I have tried and begged her to go but she says she is too ashamed of what happened to her even to tell a professional. Perhaps she is NOT a submissive personality but we have talked ands she feels that she did submit to what she considered to be the need for punishment. He "seized the opportunity and did his job well" is the way she phrases it. She was traumitized to the extent that she trembles when his name is mentioned. i KNOW SHE NEEDS PROFESSIONAL HELP BUT I CANNOT GET HER TO GO.
I agree it sounds more like outright abuse but I was just tryring to do some amateur research. Thank you for all your answers. I appreciate it.
RL

(in reply to rebelhart)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: is she a sub?? - 12/13/2004 1:54:11 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline
quote:

She has been traumitized by the relationship and I am trying to help her.


Dear RL-

Well, that is the bottom line. Unlike most of the respondents here, I am going with a different tack.

I have a friend who strikes me as similar in some ways to yours (she tells a very close story to your friends), and we have talked it through for quite a while. ( I have actually discussed her here, though I can't for the life of me find the thread...)

Our current theory is simply that she is, like most people, drawn to power in her partners, and somehow has taught herself that the more power she gives her partner, the more she is drawn to them. She does not have (IMO) self worth issues, but she has been in a few abusive relationships, and wonders at this in her self. She doesn't identify as a submissive dispite my suggestion that a recognised, non abusive power exchange would likely suit her (also dispite my suggestions, hints and wheedling<g>).

Stay warm,
Lawrence



_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to RL)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: is she a sub?? - 12/14/2004 7:29:57 AM   
Destinysskeins


Posts: 267
Joined: 7/1/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings,

There's countless scenarios that could be playing within this woman's mind. While i do agree that seeking counseling would be the best course by far i too understand that for some it's simply not an option they will consider for various reasons.

Try running through some of these possibilities with her...

Does she feel as through she has low self worth? This could be body image issues, personality issues, relationship (does she cultivate and continue friendships?), work related issues, etc.

Does she feel as though she needs to contribute an exorbant amount of effort in her relationships? Some people feel as if the responsibility of maintaining a relationship rests soley upon their shoulders often discounting the roles that the other partner(s) play within that relationship.

Does she have various other unresolved issues that result in a feeling that she needs to be punished? Childhood issues, past relationships, etc could make one feel as though they have failed in some way and thus need to be punished for their past actions.

Run through as many different scenarios as you can think of with her - hopefully you'll find some underlying cause that you can then help her to work through.

Oftentimes therapists recommend doing activities to strengthen one's sense of self worth to assist with breaking cycles associated with these types of problems. These could be simple things such as learning a new hobby, trying a new activity that you've always wanted to learn (learn to snow ski, kayak, waterski, etc). Also, it's usually recommended that one cultivate new, benevolent friendships with people who carry the same strong, self evident traits that one wants to see within themselves. Another method of coping with such things is to imagine yourself as the person you want to be - in this case a person with a high self worth who is strong enough to make the correct decisions for themselves. The person in question is instructed to imagine what this person would do when confronted with difficult situations and to act as they'd imagine this person would.

Hopefully this forum has contributed some worthwhile suggestions that will help you in assisting your friend. Keep in mind though that counseling is still the best option and continue suggesting this during times that you feel she might be more receptive to this. If she is not willing to go due to financial concerns please know that assistance is widely available. Also another thing to make note of to her is that especially with the new HIPPA policies in place her confidentiality is closely guarded and information cannot be released without a subpeona requiring her therapist to do so.

Keep us posted!

Well wishes

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: is she a sub?? - 12/14/2004 7:32:13 AM   
RL


Posts: 16
Joined: 4/3/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you to Lawrence. I believe you DO understand my friend's issue. I know of TWO bosses who have used her. She seems to have "BLOTTED OUT" the first situation but the second has left her traumitized and afraid. She trembles at the mention of his name. Being drawn to "power" seems very likely with her. And she must surrebnder herself TO THAT POWER>. She has no self esteem although she is a very attractive and talented lady.
Thanks again Lawrence.... i really apprteciate you taking the time to relate your friend's situation.
You may, as do I, just want the best for your/our friends(s).
I have practically beggd her to go to counselling...so those here who insist that i take her are barking up the wong tree. i CANNOT kidnap her and take her.
She has said PLEASE don't as ke to go.. i can't tell evan a professional..i am to asshamed".
She is very very stressed.....can't tell her husband everything because she is afraid he would kill the S.O.B. I KNOW she needs counselling but inlieu of that..THERE IS JUST ME ...trying my best to help a woman who has been my friend for many many years.
Thanks RL

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: is she a sub?? - 12/14/2004 9:14:42 AM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

She is very very stressed.....can't tell her husband everything because she is afraid he would kill the S.O.B. I KNOW she needs counselling but inlieu of that..THERE IS JUST ME ...trying my best to help a woman who has been my friend for many many years.
Thanks RL


Maybe i missed it earlier, but this is the first i've heard she has a husband. That adds a whole new dimension to this, no wonder she is so stressed. I am curious what your relationship is with her RL. Apparently she she has had at least two affairs as previously mentioned. I'm not judging her, i've been there and know the guilt that goes along with an affair.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to RL)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: is she a sub?? - 12/14/2004 11:48:58 AM   
RL


Posts: 16
Joined: 4/3/2004
Status: offline 		I want to thank Destinysskeins for the wonderful post. That is the kind of help that might be useful. I have encouraged her to tke up new hobbies......she has fulfilled a lifelong dream of studying ballet for her own pleasure. I have encouraged her to try art lessons (which she loves and is good at).
I will copy your post and study it..thank you vervrey much
In answer to Proudsub..yes she has been married all through the events i have referred to. I am a longtime friend of them both...HE ddoes not know that i know about hetr sexual exploits.She and iu are very good fgriendfs and i want to help her
thanks to all
RL

I

(in reply to proudsub)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: is she a sub?? - 12/17/2004 5:26:38 PM   
Carolinasubbie


Posts: 8
Joined: 12/16/2004
Status: offline 		I guess it's that old thing of difference between sub and slave. Personally I am a sub, but as you said, I am who I am. My submissiveness it part of me. To deny it means that I will never be complete. Do I wish be a slave, yes, but it will come in time with the right partner. IT's been said that I am not a sub because I state what I need and don't bow to all Doms or those who call themselves Master. It takes stregnth to submit- if it means anything (this is of course my not so humble opinion). Ok, <climbing off of soapbox>

(in reply to EStrict)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: is she a sub?? - 12/25/2004 7:38:05 AM   
slavedesires


Posts: 669
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		removed

< Message edited by slavedesires -- 12/26/2004 12:37:42 PM >

_____________________________

i speak only my personal opinion, sometimes O/ours.

"i am the keeper of fragile things and i have kept what is indisolvable."
....the greatest gift.....vulnerability

(in reply to RL)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: is she a sub?? - 12/25/2004 2:34:47 PM   
RL


Posts: 16
Joined: 4/3/2004
Status: offline 		Hello Shy: I have practically begged her to go to a therapist but she will not . My intentions are entirely honmorable and my only agenda is to get her help and help her sort herself out.
I welcoem any and all comments.
Many athanks..RL

(in reply to slavedesires)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: is she a sub?? - 12/31/2004 8:02:07 AM   
Destinysskeins


Posts: 267
Joined: 7/1/2004
Status: offline 		You're very welcome - i only hope that these ideas combined with your own might help her enough so that she might either self-treat or progress enough in her self esteem to be able to seek professional assistance.

(in reply to RL)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: is she a sub?? - 12/31/2004 9:17:19 PM   
RL


Posts: 16
Joined: 4/3/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks again for ALL the suggestions and advice.
I intend to try and help her as msuch as i can
RL

(in reply to perverseangelic)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: is she a sub?? - 12/31/2004 9:54:33 PM   
mysticsoul


Posts: 55
Joined: 12/26/2004
Status: offline 		Hi RL,

Its very commendable that you are trying to help out your friend.
Ultimately, theres alot of issues she seems to need to deal with and she may just need to vent to you whatevers going through her head. Just be her friend and listen - sometimes thats all people need is a good listener.

As a side note, I know that after I was in an abusive relationship, I learned some martial arts - for 6 years. It was very empowering and helped me to work through my fears and insecurities. Martial arts aren't for everyone, so maybe she would be interested in some kickboxing classes? Just a thought since it worked so well for me. I believe any woman that has been abused should be required to learn some form of self defense. Because in sticky situations - all you have is yourself.

No matter what - I hope she gets over this and grows from it.

(in reply to RL)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: is she a sub?? - 1/5/2005 7:14:41 PM   
RL


Posts: 16
Joined: 4/3/2004
Status: offline 		Hello to Mysticsoul: Thank you for your kind words and you martial arts suggestion, I think thats wonderful..very empowering. I must mention it to her. People who have answered me here have ben very kind... all I have been trying to do is to learn so I may be able to help a lady I care very much about.
Thank you again...RL

(in reply to mysticsoul)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: is she a sub?? - 1/5/2005 8:51:02 PM   
kyakitten


Posts: 145
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RL

... In fact, she has told me she has no self esteem and the "need to be punished" stemmed from what she considered to be improper sexual liasions while married. The abusive man was her boss and she conceded that she "allowed" herself to be "punished." He "seized the opportunity and "did his job well", she said. I realize you people cannot say definitively is she is a "sub" or is maschositic but I though that perhaps people in the lifestyle might be able to detect telltale personality traits....


RL - IMO it doesn't matter whether your friend is a sub or not - sounds like she's using this "need for punishment" idea to blame herself for having gotten into, or stayed in, that abusive relationship. She needs to accept that IT'S NOT HER FAULT. Even if she's a masochist. Even if she handed him the tools. He had a responsibility not to abuse the power he wielded over her and he blew it.

Whether she went into it as a sub/slave who willingly gave him power, or she was emotionally fragile and he stole it, or even some of both, is really irrelevant. Either way, she trusted him and her trust was horribly betrayed.

My read on your friend is that she's struggling now because she's feeling powerless. Three suggestions: find a BDSM-friendly abuse or rape hotline - maybe the folks here know of one - and have her call it, or even call it with her. It's anonymous. You talk if need be, and just have her listen in. That's a way you can maybe get her to start some counseling without much initiative on her part, and she can hang up if it gets too heavy.

Second - suggest she write a letter, or two or ten, to her abuser and the other people in her life she has strong emotions about. It's empowering to be able to express one's rage <;)>, it might help her to regain a feeling of control over her emotions. The letters aren't necessarily to be sent or even read by anyone - burning them maliciously might feel very good - they're just a safe way to express feelings.

Third - If she's interested in D/s as a positive thing - that is, if she thinks about it with hope and not just self-hatred for her past experience - have her read some submissives' & slaves' writings on collarme and castlerealm.com and see if she can recognize herself. The flip side of voluntarily giving up one's power to someone is realizing that you have power to choose to give or not. What an empowering discovery that is.

Best of luck to her and you.

(in reply to RL)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: is she a sub?? - 1/9/2005 2:09:56 PM   
RL


Posts: 16
Joined: 4/3/2004
Status: offline 		Hello to Kyakitten: Thank you for your very useful words of wisdom. What fd definately hapneed is that my friend WAS emotionally fragile at the time and the jerk took advantage of that situation to have his "fun" with her. But I age that, as you say, she need to understand that she was a VICTIM although she admits that she was an adult woman and allowed him to do it. I have tried to get the message across to her that she was not able at that time to "defend herself" as it were. I will talk to her about abuse lines. I also very much like the idea of writing letters...not sending them..but writing out her felings and then destroying them...shsredding them perhaps along with the bad memories. Symbollically shredding the pst (and mayeb even the jerk). Thank you/
I shall broach the suggestions you have made. And thank you for caring for a lady you do not even know. Beleieve me, she is worth caring about...she is a wonderful, kind, caring lady.
RL

(in reply to kyakitten)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: is she a sub?? - 1/9/2005 8:39:35 PM   
SweetNSassy4U


Posts: 5
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		Having a submissive or a slave or even a friend who is in need help, there is professional help, you can be the perfect person by helping her seek it and be there for her, i know I have been there and done that myself, I have been hurt and was traumatized for a very long time but after 2 years of therapy I am a much better person, don't expect therapy to work over night or even a week or a month sometimes it can take 6 months to a year or even years upon years to be trauma free and sometimes not even free of it , but at least get it under control :)

ancilla

(in reply to INSIDEYOURMIND)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: is she a sub?? - 1/10/2005 11:10:41 AM   
RL


Posts: 16
Joined: 4/3/2004
Status: offline 		Hello to sweetnsassy: I KNOW she needs professional help but she wil NOT go. She told me again lastnight she will never tell ANYONE else y her situation, so that leaves the ball back inmy court as far as trying to help her.
I take all advice to heart..but i CANNOT get her to accept counselleing.
Thanks to all...RL

(in reply to rebelhart)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: is she a sub?? - 1/10/2005 11:31:07 AM   
INSIDEYOURMIND


Posts: 483
Status: offline 		One of 2 things must happen, 1, you need to get your Doctorate in Psychology, or 2, she needs to admit that she has an issue to deal with.

While I don't doubt that if you put your mind to it, you could get a Doctorate, but by then, her issues will need someone with more experience.

Until she is able to seek real help, you can just be there for her.

It is up to her to want to deal with this.

There are many great people on these boards, but I am pretty sure that no one here has the experience to deal with this in a professional manner.


_____________________________

If I got smart with you.................
How would you know?

(in reply to RL)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: is she a sub?? - 1/10/2005 11:33:20 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
RL...

I know it may be hard for you, but truely, unless she sees she needs help and accepts it, there is nothing You can do to make her. I do feel alarm bells ringing that she insists in confiding in you and you only. Its making her very dependent on You and in turn is this making You feel some sort of responsibility to her?

She probably does need help... but You have to take care of Yourself as well. You may be strong enough to be there for her, but beware of the situation overwheming Your own life and your own well being. Be there for her... offer support and keep on about the therapy... maybe insist on it... but don't become the boulder she hides behind... be her Rock with the lighthouse guiding her elsewhere.

Peace and thoughts to You.

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to RL)
Profile   Post #: 40
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