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Giving up on your sub? - 8/1/2006 9:05:31 AM

strob

Posts: 100
Joined: 9/6/2005
Status: offline

As a follow up to the post "The most difficult thing to train?" posted by Aimtoplease101, I'd like to ask where is the point and is there such thing when a domme, unable to train her sub in some aspects of her desire, gives up on a sub and dismisses him?

Post #: 1

RE: Giving up on your sub? - 8/1/2006 9:11:17 AM

dincubus

Posts: 231
Joined: 10/22/2005
From: South Dakota
Status: offline

Forgive me for replying here, as i am not female, but i felt the need for tossing my two cents in here.
There have been several moments where i had considered releasing my sub, for issues outside of BDSM. My sub is very receptive with what i try with her. She is also very intelligent and can stimulate my mental side. Now do not get me wrong, i was not saying subs are dumb or anything silly like that. Everyone is different and has unique issues about them.
Also, a very different aspect of our relationship is that we are not 24/7. So training is a bit more relaxed as well.
all in all, i guess what i am saying is, despite the issues... i could not ever see myself releasing my sub.

(in reply to strob)

Post #: 2

RE: Giving up on your sub? - 8/1/2006 9:14:15 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

For me, I have a required, formal training period. I have not yet ever taken someone through that training period into ownership and had to dismiss them.

However, I have ended training early. Usually because the person is just not giving me the energy or sexual flow that I seek. It isn't something he/she can fix, it just is a matter of compatiblity. It hurts me to end things and it hurts them but I know deep down that it would hurt more to continue things. I make it very clear that I can stop training at any time I realize that there isn't a point of continuing -- so can the trainee too though.

I do not only follow through on the fully training program with those I think I will own. I've trained several people who went on to a good partner for someone else, one of them even realized she really perfered a service top position rather than a submissive or slave position. Some of them have also moved on to become active members of their local communities and BDSM organizations or events. That always makes me so proud perhaps a bit like a parent.

As for untrainable, at least to this point, everyone I've trained has taken it seriously enough to be trainable.

It does hurt when you told "this isn't working". I think most folks take such decisions seriously though.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to strob)

Post #: 3

RE: Giving up on your sub? - 8/1/2006 9:17:35 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

It's going to depend on how important the issue is to Her. If it's something that she can do without or can accept as done less than adequate, She might keep the sub/slave because of other attributes. Or, if She had the option of finding someone else to fulfill that component, She might also keep them. However, if it's something that's very important to Her, She may not think the bargain is worth the price. It will all depend on Her own sense of boundaries and what she's willing to bargain to keep what She does have. And, really, this doesn't just apply to Ds relationships; we must set our boundaries in such a way as to allow us to have a healthy sense of self worth in all relationships.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
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BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to strob)

Post #: 4

RE: Giving up on your sub? - 8/1/2006 9:18:16 AM

MistressOfGa

Posts: 2929
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: strob

As a follow up to the post "The most difficult thing to train?" posted by Aimtoplease101, I'd like to ask where is the point and is there such thing when a domme, unable to train her sub in some aspects of her desire, gives up on a sub and dismisses him?

I dont think there is one answer here, but for me, it is when he no longer has any desire to please me. When it is all about him and there is nothing, no punishment, no rewards, nothing that I can do or not do that will make him want to submit to me. I would call myself a failure if my sub simply stopped being submissive to me. I would look at it as a result of something I had or hadnt done with him. Yes, there are circumstances where it could be something that is within him that has caused him to stop trying, but for the most part, as his Mistress, the responsibility would rest of my own shoulders. Just as I would take credit for the type of submissive he has become, I would also take the blame for the type of submissive he has NOT become. That is about as honest of an answer I can give right now.

_____________________________

(in reply to strob)

Post #: 5

RE: Giving up on your sub? - 8/1/2006 9:20:52 AM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

I don't think there is such a thing as untrainable but I do think there is such a thing as incompatible. There are certain talents people naturally have and people will excel at some things over others. The gauge I use is not success so much as effort. However, I am saying that with the knowledge that I will have already screened the person for intelligence, sense of humor, etc. So as a person I probably already liek him. As a submissive he has enough likes/dislikes as I do to be compatible at least on paper. The training starts getting into the reality of the situation. Considering everything, if there is an effort made to doing what he should then it's all I can ask. If there's slacking, he has no business being my slave.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 6

RE: Giving up on your sub? - 8/1/2006 9:33:56 AM

Kirei

Posts: 146
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

For me if a dominant, master or mistress, gives up on a sub then they have made the mistake. I say this only because good dominants will know how they wish to train someone, and in what areas and what kind of training they can give. Their ares of expertise.
For me and my house its a very eastern style of training and philosophy. I have spent 3 years writting and coming up with my ideal. While this ideal may never actually come to reality, it is what I judge any persective subs/slaves by....and this helps so that I won't have to say I can't train you after both of us have entered into an agreement. It gives me the information to ask the questions of prospects...even when they can't think of what to ask themselves. I do this mostly because few people ask the right questions and then later get into situations they are not comfortable with.

Koneko

(in reply to MistressOfGa)

Post #: 7

RE: Giving up on your sub? - 8/1/2006 9:49:50 AM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

Also not a Domme, but will toss in an opinion as well.

I interview on qualifications before taking on a prospect. And make what I do quite clear. I want consent to match ability and the realization of the reality behind it. This usually weeds out the vast majority, and leaves me with more promising chances.

I don't want to have to dismiss someone because they tried to measure up to something they were simply not up to-that would be my bad, not thiers.

< Message edited by Homestead -- 8/1/2006 9:50:16 AM >

(in reply to Kirei)

Post #: 8

RE: Giving up on your sub? - 8/1/2006 10:29:31 AM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

I can't agree with that. Sometimes a sub is truly at fault.

I might give up the first time a sub lies, and would definitely give up the second time she lies. And I'd give up the first time a sub tries to interfere with my relationships with anyone else.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirei

For me if a dominant, master or mistress, gives up on a sub then they have made the mistake.

(in reply to Kirei)

Post #: 9

RE: Giving up on your sub? - 8/1/2006 10:30:38 AM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear strob, Ladies and Gentlemen;

Training really has a broad base as, training can be a mere suggestion as to change a person's attitude and or behavior, to the severe punishment phase and dismissal, with everthing in between.

Training is a 'test of will' per se, to which the slave/submissive or servant must be willing to be trained in something. Some individuals will never accept training by another, regardless of their skill, knowledge and demonstrated tests to prove the point in total. The mindset of the slave/submissive/servant must be there to at least listen, savor the thought or premise of the logic, be willing to try it and not sabatoge the training and or the training scenero.

Only those involved in the relationship can communicate the training methods, goals and interactions of that training. However, you might find that there are those who make sport of sabatoging a dominant's training to which causes frustration and a parting of ways. I doubt if any solution to having an unwilling partner, unwilling to learn or be trained will be less than 'dismissed.' True--people who train have different methods from reward and punishment, to talking to them like an adult and reason with logic and showing/demonstrating the difference and all sorts of ways in between. The key is finding the right recipe for training those in a dominant's scope and types of students. Just as there are submissives who thrive on being difficult and those who just want to please, and those in between.

However, there might be a time where a dominant will and or must give up on a submissive, especially when all remedies to solve the training issues have been exhausted. All it will do is frustrate the two individuals involved and nothing is gained by it.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to strob)

Post #: 10

RE: Giving up on your sub? - 8/1/2006 7:30:12 PM

Fawne

Posts: 462
Status: offline

If communication was fully shared, needs spoken and listened to, protocol given so expectations are clear, no one made to guess or read minds, issues worked on, quality time spent together, concerns brought up neutrally without attacking, not making snap judgements - well then maybe.

The sub must analyze why they resisted training and the Domme/Dom need consider if they themselves had been leading honorably.

Sadly, some are too afraid to open up and let love in

.
Times where people just aren't right for each other too...

< Message edited by Fawne -- 8/1/2006 8:24:12 PM >

(in reply to Homestead)

Post #: 11

RE: Giving up on your sub? - 8/1/2006 7:36:46 PM

marieToo

Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: strob

As a follow up to the post "The most difficult thing to train?" posted by Aimtoplease101, I'd like to ask where is the point and is there such thing when a domme, unable to train her sub in some aspects of her desire, gives up on a sub and dismisses him?

Im not so sure its a question of "training". In my opinion it would be a sign that the 2 ppl just are not right for each other.

(in reply to strob)

Post #: 12

RE: Giving up on your sub? - 8/1/2006 7:45:37 PM

Fawne

Posts: 462
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHugs
True--people who train have different methods from reward and punishment, to talking to them like an adult and reason with logic and showing/demonstrating the difference and all sorts of ways in between. The key is finding the right recipe for training those in a dominant's scope and types of students.
LadyHugs

Humbly, yes - a Dominant's training methods and attitude may not mesh with every submissive.

If the Dominant practices one way of training = one size fits all subs, - IMHO that Dominant is limiting reality, prospects and themselves. But, that is a choice of the one who holds the reins.

In all respect.

(in reply to LadyHugs)

Post #: 13

RE: Giving up on your sub? - 8/2/2006 6:50:42 PM

LadyAlexa

Posts: 141
Joined: 1/2/2005
Status: offline

So many answers; so many choices. What is correct for you is the best decision of all.

I have had subs, that with much thought over many months, I have dismissed. Usually it was due to the realization that we just either didn't fit, they didn't fit the household, they wanted more then what I could give {i always explain precisely to any sub what I can and cannot give them before the start], or for various personal reasons.

It's always best when you realize that things aren't working to have a long honest and open communication. Listen to the subs thoughts; they listen to yours. Sometimes a change of heart can occur down the road when each of you might mature or change in certain ways.

_____________________________

Lady Alexa
[amber]

Submission is key not gender.

GLBT approved.

(in reply to strob)

Post #: 14

RE: Giving up on your sub? - 8/2/2006 8:53:10 PM

MistressSassy66

Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: strob

As a follow up to the post "The most difficult thing to train?" posted by Aimtoplease101, I'd like to ask where is the point and is there such thing when a domme, unable to train her sub in some aspects of her desire, gives up on a sub and dismisses him?

When a submissive doesnt show a genuine interest on the first couple visits,for instance talk about wanting sex or orally please Me and I say I dont do that and they continue on...they are dismissed.
The ones who want to play head games and do the no show/no call,get dismissed(thats providing there were accepted at some point in the beginning.

I dont give up on training.I will try new learning techniques.
I like to give submissives a chance to learn,especially newer ones.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to strob)

Post #: 15

RE: Giving up on your sub? - 8/2/2006 9:00:30 PM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

The only time I ever "give up" on a sub is when they repeatedly waiver between complete submission and outward defiance. Every now and again, while I dont like it I expecta new trainee sub to push his or her boundaries if nothing else just to find out where they are. However, if after correction the behavior doesnt change... then it shows me that they arent trying to actually learn and I lose interest. I am very forgiving with mistakes and very patient with training, as long as I see an actual interest in improving. If that interest sint there, thats when I will give up and dismiss someone.

DV

(in reply to MistressSassy66)

Post #: 16

RE: Giving up on your sub? - 8/2/2006 9:05:32 PM

MistressSassy66

Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

The only time I ever "give up" on a sub is when they repeatedly waiver between complete submission and outward defiance. Every now and again, while I dont like it I expecta new trainee sub to push his or her boundaries if nothing else just to find out where they are. However, if after correction the behavior doesnt change... then it shows me that they arent trying to actually learn and I lose interest. I am very forgiving with mistakes and very patient with training, as long as I see an actual interest in improving. If that interest sint there, thats when I will give up and dismiss someone.

DV

I have to completely agree with that.
I hate to do it...butt sometime it just has to be done.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

Post #: 17

RE: Giving up on your sub? - 8/3/2006 2:44:17 AM

Sylverdawn

Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

I have released a sub from service. The point at which was his inability, unwillingness to comply to a requirement. After weeks of him hemming and hawing or the request and me stating simply it was what I required I decided that enough was enough and let him go. Now I am going to clarify that the request was simple, not life threatening in any way; it was a basic service request. He couldn't comply and I couldn't change the protocol. It was possibly the most difficult experience I have ever encountered and it was done after much soul searching. But in retrospect I am glad I did it because if I had caved I think the power dynamic would have shifted and I never would have been in charge again.

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to strob)

Post #: 18

RE: Giving up on your sub? - 8/3/2006 4:38:28 AM

cynthiamarie

Posts: 205
Joined: 3/11/2005
From: Bluefield, WV, USA
Status: offline

I've let someone go because he was on a self-destructive cycle that I couldn't/wouldn't pull him out of, and it would have endangered my son to keep the sub; another because our needs didn't match up (I wanted a sub, and he decided he wanted to be an occasional bottom) and he kept breaking his word to me; another because his mother died and he needed to be free.

I may have removed that last one's collar...but there's a long, invisible rope attached to an invisible collar that never comes off...and he's coming along nicely. This is online and over the phone, with some occasional visits; I can't see ever letting him go unless he has met a compatible Domme in his area and had a chance at 24/7.

(in reply to Sylverdawn)

Post #: 19

RE: Giving up on your sub? - 8/3/2006 4:47:00 AM

MyNameisMaam

Posts: 57
Joined: 10/23/2005
Status: offline

I would also feel that in some way I could have done more, - but I know that HE is responsible for his own behavior - I am not.

(in reply to MistressOfGa)

Post #: 20

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