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sub drop, definitions, causes, cures and prevention - 8/5/2006 3:08:51 PM   
songofeire


Posts: 40
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline 		I really thought I had gotten past all that newbie "sub drop" nonsense years ago, but recently had one of the most prolonged episodes of it ever, and am trying to figure out why it happened and how to lessen it, hopefully, in the future.
I define sub drop as the emotional fall that comes after a scene. It can be hours or days later, and I find myself in tears and don't know why.
I believe that for me, sub drop comes not so much from the adrenaline loss after being beaten as much as the loss of the feelings of deep surrender that happen so much more intensely "in scene." And one of the things that makes things so intense is a deep spiritual and emotional connection with my Dominant.
I get to a place of such ecstacy and simply do not wish to return to earth....so I work to stay there past when it is occurring naturally, and then suddenly run out of steam and fall hard....kind of like the road runner running past the edge of the cliff till he sees, finally, that he is in mid air, and THEN falls.
Contributing forces to this sub drop were the 300 miles between me and my Dominant and the houseful of house guests who started arriving only a couple of days after our intense encounter. Also, I hadn't slept the night before he arrived, and was too keyed up to sleep after he left, so have been exhausted.
Anyhow, I feel foolish for having not realized what was happening, and for how cranky and demanding I was while it was going on. Thank goodness he was patient and understanding.
As for cures, time seems to be the only reliable one I have found.
Prevention? Well maybe getting more rest, staying aware that it will happen so as not to make a fool out of myself when it does, would both mitigate it a bit, but I am afraid that it may be impossible to prevent entirely...at least while living apart.
I feel sure there are similarities and differences in the experiences of the other submissives and their Dominants, and would love to hear about it.

Rosemary, the MarinMasochist
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: sub drop, definitions, causes, cures and prevention - 8/5/2006 3:22:29 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		http://www.collarchat.com/m_512884/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cdrop/tm.htm#513003
Your insight is needed please

http://www.collarchat.com/m_487853/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cdrop/tm.htm#488083
sub drop (2)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_460639/mpage_1/key_subdrop/tm.htm#460834
regaining balance after deep subspace

http://www.collarchat.com/m_202168/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cdrop/tm.htm#202459
sub-drop what is it?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_345419/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cdrop/tm.htm#345462
highs and lows

http://www.collarchat.com/m_398653/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cdrop/tm.htm#399164
subdrop or what?

Is it drop or am I kidding myself?

Depression after a scene

Sub Drop

Nervous sub seeks reassurance

sleeping...

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to songofeire)
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RE: sub drop, definitions, causes, cures and prevention - 8/5/2006 3:48:41 PM   
songofeire


Posts: 40
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline 		Not sure, Albatross, if you are purely trying to be helpful with your excellent research skills, or if there is a point being made about this not being the first time someone has brought up this subject.
Perhaps it is being suggested that we all simply research old answers and not ask any more old questions.
Hard to tell, with no comment attached.

Rosemary, MarinMasochist

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: sub drop, definitions, causes, cures and prevention - 8/5/2006 4:13:27 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Em is the forums resident thread finder.  So she is being helpful.
There is actually a current thread running by erin which is very new and started this week -  you might find it helpful.

As for subdrop being a 'newbie' state - it isn't.  Subdrop occurs whenever there is an intense scene.  You cannot prevent it.  You cannot cure it apart from being self aware and understanding your own mind and body.  You can assist yourself by eating well, keeping hydrated and talking to others whilst you are going through it.  The cause is like coming down from any 'high'... its the flood of chemicals that enters the body which then leaves your body.
Subdrop is a state of depression.  It can last for days, or weeks.  It can occur the day after, or longer... 72 hours even... or a week.
 
Peace and Rapture


< Message edited by darkinshadows -- 8/5/2006 4:14:28 PM >

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to songofeire)
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RE: sub drop, definitions, causes, cures and prevention - 8/5/2006 7:56:31 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		This thread had some of the best ideas I have seen since I've been here on collarme. I would like to add to it that I mentioned L-tryptophan in the thread and said that it was no longer on the market. It is once again available and can be purchased at many internet sites.

Sub drop is not a newbie issue....I have been getting it after play consistently for 28 years now.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_56427/mpage_1/key_remedies/tm.htm

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to darkinshadows)
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RE: sub drop, definitions, causes, cures and prevention - 8/5/2006 8:37:45 PM   
songofeire


Posts: 40
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks all, I will look into that thread.

Rosemary MarinMasoMama

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: sub drop, definitions, causes, cures and prevention - 1/8/2008 3:28:37 PM   
IXian


Posts: 29
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		Hi, I've been lurking on the forum for some time and finally had something to say.
In the LARP community( Scandinavian) this phenomen is quite well known among people who participate in prolonged intense roleplaying. It sometimes even occure among tabletop roleplayers in groups that focus on characterdriven storytelling rather than Action/adventure driven storytelling.

Usually its described as post LARP blues, or just LARP/roleplaying blues. In general most roleplaying or LARP people I've meet has experienced it (including myself).
Among the LAIV(LARP) scene the usual solution is an Dead-Dog party right imediately after the event. First everyone helps cleaning up, then they go out to eat and afterwards get completely wasted together at an bar or at someones home. Such parties can sometimes get out of hand, but The Cardinal Rule is "No roleacting!".
Both taking the time to clean up and then eat together in another setting helps counter the intense emotional "charge" by creating an period where the participants gradually adjust to the fact that the LARP is over, gone and finished. The party let's everyone separate their view of the Actor from their view of the Role and eases the tensions that arise. Especially it helps on dampening the doubt/fear/joy pendelum that sooner or later rears it's ugly head. ^_^
Interestingly the post LARP blues can hit experienced roleplayers much harder as they tend to imerse themself much more into an role and therefore also feel the LARP as much more "real".

In tabletop roleplaying games some groups(and mine) that I know of have started to have milder versions of the Dead-Dog party after especially intense sessions, mostly shared meals before or after a session and always spending at least 15-30 minutes afterwards just talking about whatever happend in-game or anything else that people have on their mind.

Of course, this is probably not an solution by itself for SubDrop, but the psycological mechanims IMHO should share some common links.

My two cents: An _possible_ cause of the subdrop might be the lack of the right way of ending an session. Even though the participants intelectually can graps the fact that things have come to an end, that doesn't necessarily imply that the Limbic System (in control of the fear/anger/reward/punishment hormone mechanisms) has caught up to the fact. (I was going to start an long rant about biochemistry trying to come up with an qualified guess, but it would probably be extremly boring.)

So, to make it short:
1. Subdrop is an completely normal evolved reaction.
2. Try to find ways that gradualy encourage your body to accept that the "dangerous" period is over.
2a. There has been several good sugestions, I'd especially recommend first trying those that doesn't require pharmaceutical remedies, but there _is no true one way_, you'd probably have to experiment a bit.
2b. My other suggestion is eating an _relaxed shared_ meal with the other participant(s). Sharing an meal in kindness is one of the basic primate non-threatening gestures all higher primates acknowledge regardless of species. (Ask any social anthropologist.)
3. Don't be alone without someone to talk to when/if the "down" comes. For example if eating, exercises and "down-time" triggers the post-shock in an predictable manner then make sure you have some company or at least an good listener within cellphone distance.

IXian Probe, signing out.


(in reply to songofeire)
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RE: sub drop, definitions, causes, cures and prevention - 1/8/2008 3:31:06 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IXian
<snipped fore and aft>

My two cents: An _possible_ cause of the subdrop might be the lack of the right way of ending an session. Even though the participants intelectually can graps the fact that things have come to an end, that doesn't necessarily imply that the Limbic System (in control of the fear/anger/reward/punishment hormone mechanisms) has caught up to the fact. (I was going to start an long rant about biochemistry trying to come up with an qualified guess, but it would probably be extremly boring.)

IXian Probe, signing out.


 Dang that made sense. Oh heya, welcome to the boards by the way.

_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




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RE: sub drop, definitions, causes, cures and prevention - 1/8/2008 6:04:00 PM   
petpete


Posts: 677
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings to all the respected members with there helpful hints about subspace.. Its something i am trying to come accustomed to. i have been in training for some time with a Mistress and She has mentioned this to me on the second day after our interaction. i had weird feelings of having to feel dependent on my own again.. Its a feeling of having to deny myself the chance of my lifelong dream and take control of myself again and fall back to where i started. This happens when i am away from Her. It all goes away when i am in a personal level contacting Her, but when i'm at home alone and i communicate with Her online i tend to get the feeling that i need to be self dependent, and need some reassurance that i am not miss lead. i guess it was my fault of not making my abilities to serve known to the Mistress from the first place. i am very shy by nature and thats a problem to establish a descent  communication with the Dominant. my online conduct got to such a point that i became very disrespectful against Her. i saw that action of mine such a disappointment of my personal discipline that i had to ask for Her to release me. At least now i have no reason to conduct myself in a disrespectful manner of which i did in the past. i will have to find a way to deal with this insecurity of mine before i will beg for acceptance again. In the meantime i still care for Her and still keep contact with Her providing any useful services i may offer or she may ask from me on a friend to friend level but ofcourse in a respectful manner.

_____________________________

Chief: Max, you realize you'll be facing every kind of danger imaginable.
Max: And loving it!


(in reply to camille65)
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RE: sub drop, definitions, causes, cures and prevention - 1/8/2008 7:11:24 PM   
gypsypet


Posts: 10
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		hi there
i am sooo glad im not the only one who experiences 'sub drop' at least now i have a name for it.   Your descriptions are so spot on, and now i have an idea of how to combat it
thanks heaps

(in reply to petpete)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: sub drop, definitions, causes, cures and prevention - 1/8/2008 7:46:26 PM   
petpete


Posts: 677
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline 		Your welcome gyp. i also try and find ways by taking my mind away from it.. Something to relax helps.. Music, movies humor.. By all means don't dwell on it it can have disastrous effects. If you have an understanding partner better talk to them about it.. i certainly didn't have a clue what it was all about till i came to the boards. By all means never get one opinion as there are some people who like to muck with people's minds. This is the best place to talk about your problem as most of us are confronted with our answers and you can have a better balance of opinions. Take care hon.

_____________________________

Chief: Max, you realize you'll be facing every kind of danger imaginable.
Max: And loving it!


(in reply to gypsypet)
Profile   Post #: 11
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