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RE: Smoker Descrimination - 8/6/2006 9:00:40 AM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline 		The good news is that in this atmosphere of intolerance, it's finally fun to smoke again. Ahhhhh, I love the aroma of dissent in the morning.

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Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama

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RE: Smoker Descrimination - 8/6/2006 11:27:54 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Thank you Chaingang.


I guess I stand semi-corrected.

While I still have never heard of anyone seeking a ban on tobacco to make it outright illegal, I can see that companies may try an end run around such paltry issues as the legality of a thing. Effectively the demands of a possible employer are now more important than what is and isn't allowed by law!

And I think that stinks!

This is yet another example of how and why corporations simply aren't good citizens for any society. Corporations are fictitious persons, and the kind of fictitious persons they are are psychopaths. Corporations now possess and wield enormous power as if they were a petulant screaming child with a hammer. Effecting social control in the name of protecting the bottom line is not a reasonable outcome for the mere existence of these corporations. And if this isn't very near the definition of a plutocracy, then I don't know what is - governments and laws do not matter, only what is and isn't allowed by some fucking corporations! That is the rule of the few against the many.

"The Corporation"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Corporation
Full video here (crap resolution though):
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article12998.htm


< Message edited by Chaingang -- 8/6/2006 11:31:00 AM >

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RE: Smoker Descrimination - 8/6/2006 12:10:31 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei
If your habit, size, or  lifestyle doesn't prevent you from doing your intended job.... employers should have nothing to say about it. 

Then we get into the problem of something like pregnancy.  Someone becoming pregnant definitely increases the likelihood of someone NOT being able to do their job, and in fact will definitely be out of work for at least a day or two for delivery.

Now, thanks to feminist movement pressure and the huge importance of priority our society places on mothers giving birth to healthy babies, FMLA allows people to become pregnant and have babies with far fewer problems to their jobs...even though it does cause hardships to the employer.

The problem here is that we certainly do NOT want any and all medical issues to become a protected sector.  Thus we are stuck in the muddy waters of employers needing to make sure their employees are being a benefit and not a drain on their companies, while also not allowing employers to dictate private freedoms.

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RE: Smoker Descrimination - 8/6/2006 12:12:17 PM   
MysticFireTopaz


Posts: 50939
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX
Status: offline 		I'm a non-smoker, but find this development very disturbing.  The attorney quoted in the article expresses My views very well:  "To have an employer monitor legal behavior is going over a line that we just can't cross. It's going toward that Big Brother mentality that we just need to stay away from."
 
I am not against mandatory drug testing, as that is monitoring an illegal activity, but testing employees to see if they have smoked seems very over-the-top to Me.
 
True, smoking is a risk factor for a number of illnesses, but so are other things, such as being overweight (which I admit to being guilty of and am in the process of doing something about).  I also have co-workers who engage in high-risk activities such as sky-diving. having promiscuous, unprotected sex, excessive alcohol consumption, etc.
 
I just find this to be a step in the wrong direction and opening a Pandora's box for other types of discrimination. 
 
Lady Topaz

< Message edited by MysticFireTopaz -- 8/6/2006 12:13:23 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Smoker Descrimination - 8/6/2006 12:31:40 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I wonder how many people who are screaming about how we are losing all our rights even care about this? Wait, did I just hear crickets?

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RE: Smoker Descrimination - 8/6/2006 1:55:15 PM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline 		Oh ... no ... sorry, Estring. I was messing around with the lighting mechanism on this Zippo

~ chink chink ~

~ puff puff ~

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Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Smoker Descrimination - 8/6/2006 2:52:48 PM   
Darkraven6


Posts: 26
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		Ive been in the medical field for over twenty years....and recently myself and other nurses in good standings, have handed in our licenses, due to the way the medical field has become more for business and turning a profit then in actually the care and help of patients.  It wasnt something we took lightly, nor are we far from the only ones doing so. 
 
Unfortunitly, in todays world, here anyway, what shoud be, or in alot of cases, the laws and simple respect of ones rights, no longer matter, unless you happen to be well off, or related to someone well off, which seems to make one have "power".  Thus, huge companys, government, and others in the select groups, can seem to pick and choose what laws will apply and to whom and when.   Seldom, will you find those in these groups judging themselves, but they do not hessitate to do so to anyone outside of their groups. 
 
One has to wonder, when while driving to work, a cig in hand, hand resting on the top of the wheel, and just above down the road, are huge smoke stacks from one of the six mills in the area, huge billowing clouds of smoke rolling out of each....you cant help but wonder how your smoking a cig, can be so much worse then something like that...and I see it every day.
 
Right along with hearing about how a mother is fighting to keep her small child away from a father that is extreamly abusive to his children, and the judge stating that the past record of the father "wont be used in this case", or how this or that law "wont be used in this case".   Or the lawyer who sees nothing wrong with handing a child molester custody of a two year old child.  Or the worker who gets literally handicapped due to a work injury, witnesses there to agree the worker did indeed get hurt on the job, and the employer stating that she "threw out the doctors notes," and "didnt bother" to file a workmans comp form....and the state, ruling the worker will get nothing, because she saw two doctors, who refused to treat her condition, had to see a third doctor who finally did agree to an MRI and found that her back was shattered, and the bone shards had cut into the spinal cord, and now, shes crippled for life.  She will get nothing, and has three children to support and rent to pay and meds to take the rest of her life.  Im sure, there are many, many more situations that are just as bad and worse then just these, but, they happen every day, and they are allowed, just like the companys that can tell you what you will and can do away from your job, or that if your over weight you cant work here etc....
 
We can all Im sure state many injustices...and unfortunitly, like its been stated prior to my babbling, is anyone really listening?  Because, no one really seems to care enough to try and stop it....sometimes, I wonder if it would take a civil war all over agian to change things.....but, untill then, its at least nice to have a place to vent at times, and to see maybe that your not the only one to see that things here are really messed up.  Blessings to you all...

(in reply to MmakeMme)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Smoker Descrimination - 8/6/2006 5:21:19 PM   
cheshireboy


Posts: 217
Joined: 5/10/2006
Status: offline 		~prints out this post...fills it with tobacco and smokes it.~
 
cheshire

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Smoker Descrimination - 8/6/2006 5:58:27 PM   
MistressTexas


Posts: 425
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline 		I think the argument could possibly be along the lines of  "an employee having a "nic fit"" isn't exactly going to be performing top quality customer service. While I find the policy to be militant and out of line, I also believe it has its merits. For instance, a close friend of mine is quite allergic to cigarette smoke. This limits the places he can work and socialize, which is needless to say... frustrating. I think his worst incident to date was going into the hospital for a concussion, and a nurse (not laying any blame on nurses here) who happened to be a long time chain smoker, was checking his carotid pulse without gloves on. Yes I realize how stupid this is. In any case, just the minute transfer of cigarette residue from her fingertips to his throat caused an intense anaphylactic reaction. This is obviously an extreme case, and by no means do I think smoking should be banned on one or two cases like this. However with allergies rising at an alarming rate, perhaps we need to be pressing for harsher laws on the "unnessecary" allergens. For instance, we cant impose restrictions on every single food that causes an allergic reaction, but we can be more aware of how theyre used, and educate servers on the dishes and what ingredients they contain.  We can't emliminate laex from the healthcare field, but we can have alternatives on hand. We can't ban smoking or cigarette smoke but we can restrict the places and people it comes into contact with.

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RE: Smoker Discrimination - 8/6/2006 6:00:16 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		A very timely update from across the pond. It seems the liberated society is going at this idea full throttle. Now all EU companies can refuse employment to any smoker.
YEAH, Europe much more accepting and much more "free". Unless you smoke.

quote:

Employers in Europe are free to refuse smokers a job, confirming their status as the continent's last pariahs.The European Commission, which has presided over a vast array of anti-discrimination legislation in the past six years, has confirmed that it does not cover tobacco users. Source:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14187600/


Damn - does this mean the next crop of illegal aliens will be smokers from EU countries?

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Profile   Post #: 30
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