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A question of appropriate communication. - 8/6/2006 3:40:24 PM   
behindmirrors


Posts: 340
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		Hello!
I'm entirely new to this lifestyle, really- I have been interested in it for quite some time, but only now am with someone where a safe exploration of it is possible, not to mention a willingness is between both of us.

To give you some background on where I am coming from, I am a 22 year old submissive female, and am in a live-in relationship with my boyfriend/Dominant who is 30. We started dating a bit over a year ago in an entirely vanilla relationship, and discovered about seven months ago that we both have a keen interest in BDSM and that we wanted to "run with it", so to speak. He has had a previous submissive and is comfortable in being Dominant, but I have never before been owned and am truly beginning in this journey with a great willingness to learn and a genuine love to submit.

He and I have spoke recently of my earning his collar, something I want very much. However, I am always a bit befuddled as to how to speak in a way that is both respectful but forthright about what my own needs are in this aspect. It is nervewracking, to say the least. What I would like to know is what his expectations are of me, his requirements, what he considers to be the criteria for earning his collar to be, and mostly, what I can work on to please him better, but none of this has really been made clear to me, and I am confused as to where my place is and what I should be doing. I am also unsure to a large degree as to what his limits are as well. Unfortunately, I have not been able to start a clear communication with him on this subject due to my own nerves and fear of challenging his dominance in the relationship in any way.

What I am seeking advice on is a good way to ask these things without being disrespectful to him. I want to be clear with my own limits that I know of, and also want to know what his are. Mostly, I just want to be able to start an honest, open dialogue without being inappropriate to my "rank" in the relationship under the context of D/s. I don't even know where to begin- I'm one of those painfully shy sorts who seems to just embarass themselves when they open their mouths about things important to them, which I do not want to do in this case. Is it a "cop out" to write him a letter to start this dialogue, or should I just say something one day when we're alone at home? He knows I am struggling with this, but is to some degree enjoying watching me try to figure out the best way to do things.

Any help you could give me would be more than appreciated, and I thank you in advance for your input.

S.
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RE: A question of appropriate communication. - 8/6/2006 3:46:43 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: behindmirrors
What I am seeking advice on is a good way to ask these things without being disrespectful to him.

"I"m really looking forward to things progressing with us, but we need to make sure I understand your expectations and limits.  I'm really scared to bring this up, though I know that's probably silly."

Look at it this way- he likes you, as you.  If he had a problem with how you approached him, he'd let you know.  Nothing HAS to change just because you are his slave.  Trust me, most Ms relationships appear like any normal vanilla relationship a large majority of the time.

THis isn't just a one time conversation either.  It's something you build with eachother.  Part of the goodness of new relationships is that you get to make it work for yourselves, no matter what you had to deal with in the past.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to behindmirrors)
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RE: A question of appropriate communication. - 8/6/2006 3:53:08 PM   
SavageEu


Posts: 197
Joined: 7/8/2006
Status: offline 		Oo, I hear the buzzing of Doms desending. Really its just a matter of talking plainly to your Dom. If its not in a scene I doubt that many would care as long as you were not just shouting 'Hey you moron I don't like that!'. Personally showing respect to me is about being honest, not beating around the bush, it does not require 'Yes, Master' every other word. Though a 'Yes, Master' used with real feeling when appropraite (as in when my sub really feels that I have shown to be her Master) would be nice :) Maybe start by listing what questions you might have, if you are shy writing them out first would give you a template to cover when talking with him. Plus if its in black and white you can always just hand it to him and ask him what he thinks. Hopefully being the Dom he can help lead you through your questions and find the answers with you. 

_____________________________

"Yes, Dorian, you will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you have never had the courage to commit"

--The Picture of Dorian Gray.

(in reply to behindmirrors)
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RE: A question of appropriate communication. - 8/6/2006 3:53:20 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Sinec he knows you are completely new to the lifestyle, asking things directly should be fairly well recieved. I know that when I have had beginners, I usualy encouraged questions, rather than having them try and guess what it is I mgith want/enjoy/expect.  It not only helps you learn, but it keeps your Master from being disappointed when you arent picking up on subtler hints. LuckyAlbatross said it well, this is NOT a one time conversation.  You'll have many of them, over time. They always help. Just make sure your language is direct as well as polite, and you should be just fine.
Good Luck

DV

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: A question of appropriate communication. - 8/6/2006 3:59:33 PM   
krista


Posts: 109
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings...

As in all things..speaking from the heart.....has always worked best for me....:).....wishing you well on your journey

regards
krista
joy through service

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
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RE: A question of appropriate communication. - 8/6/2006 4:07:16 PM   
behindmirrors


Posts: 340
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		"I'm really looking forward to things progressing with us, but we need to make sure I understand your expectations and limits.  I'm really scared to bring this up, though I know that's probably silly."
 
That's a good statement. I hope you don't mind that I use it! It seems to be such a nervewracking topic- I can't recall a situation in my life previously where I have ever had to ask how I am to kneel properly before! Thank you for the advice.

"Personally showing respect to me is about being honest, not beating around the bush, it does not require 'Yes, Master' every other word. Though a 'Yes, Master' used with real feeling when appropraite (as in when my sub really feels that I have shown to be her Master) would be nice :) Maybe start by listing what questions you might have, if you are shy writing them out first would give you a template to cover when talking with him."

He has not told me yet to call him by any specific title, which is another question I should like to ask of him in this conversation. A list of questions is a good idea- albeit, that seems to grow every day, but that would at least give me a good start to talking to him. And to think I just sent you a message asking about this, haha! Thank you.
 
"Since he knows you are completely new to the lifestyle, asking things directly should be fairly well recieved. I know that when I have had beginners, I usualy encouraged questions, rather than having them try and guess what it is I mgith want/enjoy/expect.  It not only helps you learn, but it keeps your Master from being disappointed when you arent picking up on subtler hints."
 
That was really helpful. He appears to be not only my Master, but also a Master of subtlety, haha. I'm generally a literal and direct person when it comes to my own understanding of expectations, and although he knows this, I try to ask subtle questions and I get subtle answers in return, mostly because I am afraid of being direct and/or challenging him. It was very reassuring to see this. Thank you.

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
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RE: A question of appropriate communication. - 8/6/2006 6:23:40 PM   
BillsGalSusan


Posts: 69
Joined: 7/18/2006
Status: offline 		Keep in mind that he may not wish you to kneel or to use any title at all. It wouldn't make him any less your master/dom, or you any less his slave/submissive. LA was spot-on when she said: "Trust me, most Ms relationships appear like any normal vanilla relationship a large majority of the time."

Another Susan

(in reply to behindmirrors)
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RE: A question of appropriate communication. - 8/6/2006 7:10:05 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Discussing things with your Dom is never disrespectful. I talk with my slave all the time and encourage her to open up to me. It sounds like you are not comfortable in doing this in general, but remember, men are not mind readers. Communicate. Talk. Share. None of those things go against the type of relationship you are seeking.

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to behindmirrors)
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RE: A question of appropriate communication. - 8/6/2006 8:25:51 PM   
behindmirrors


Posts: 340
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		"Keep in mind that he may not wish you to kneel or to use any title at all."

The title, yeah, I can't really see him doing- after a year of vanilla life, it would seem almost strange. For now anyway, I address him as "Dearest" most of the time.

The kneeling, though, he seems to appreciate very much when I do it on my own accord- for example last night, when I did so at his feet and he idly stroked my hair as we listened to the radio. I am more comfortable that way than in a chair most of the time anyway.

"Discussing things with your Dom is never disrespectful. I talk with my slave all the time and encourage her to open up to me. It sounds like you are not comfortable in doing this in general, but remember, men are not mind readers. Communicate. Talk. Share. None of those things go against the type of relationship you are seeking."

That was incredibly reassuring, and thank you. I have always been shy and introverted when I have to speak...except at my job, which is really unrelated to my life as far as social things go, and I have a great deal of confidence in that part of my life.

(in reply to Estring)
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RE: A question of appropriate communication. - 8/6/2006 10:06:00 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		"Dearest" is very sweet. It'd work for me!
Communicate. That's the biggest thing!
Like E-String said us guys aren't mind readers!

(in reply to behindmirrors)
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RE: A question of appropriate communication. - 8/7/2006 1:56:30 AM   
SirDarkside357


Posts: 393
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		Ask anything that is important to you. Be respectful. If he knows you there wont be any problems. He'll want you too. Remember, Masters aren't mind readers, we need info to do what we do...without it, we make mistakes....yes, Masters can and do make mistakes...but don't tell anyone I said that, ok.  WEG

Be Well,
Darkside

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RE: A question of appropriate communication. - 8/7/2006 2:16:09 AM   
obis


Posts: 412
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Your message is so sincere heartfelt, I can't imagine it would be possible for you to ask anything in a disrespectful or "wrong" way with your boyfriend. Be honest, share your doubts/questions/worries as simply but as explicitly as you can. If it helps you to write them down beforehand, that can keep you from forgetting anything and get your thoughts in order.

If you think he enjoys watching you squirm a bit, then you're probably right. I've done that before, as a way to force the girl to be open and honest and trust me with her concerns, and so she can see that I will accept her questions or needs just as respectfully and promptly as they are presented to me. You are beginning something more intimate and personal than typical romantic/sexual relationships, so you will have to make that mental adjustment in terms of baring more of yourself to him rather than hiding behind social convention or avoiding "embarassing" topics and hoping he picks up on hints or otherwise reads your mind.

(in reply to SirDarkside357)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: A question of appropriate communication. - 8/7/2006 2:27:38 AM   
lilriv


Posts: 12
Joined: 4/10/2006
Status: offline 		I was sitting at my master's knee, reading your post with him, when I opened my mouth to discuss, and he sent me to my computer to respond to you.

Part of the joy of a d/s relationship is discovering the limits both you and your master have and continually pushing just slightly beyond them.  Remember having your nipples fiercely pinched for the first time? It hurt. It was a shock to you physically and mentally. But the rush of release was (and is) delicious, and ever so slowly . . . over days, weeks, months . . . your tolerance starts to build up. Just like physical and emotional limits, we also have limits in the ways we are comfortable communicating. And just like those physical limits, you shouldn't be afraid to push them.

When you communicate with your master, and he sees your discomfort, instead of thinking how the ideas behind the words could possibly bring him displeasure, think instead of the pleasure he feels that you're pushing your OWN limits in order to be a better slave to him. You are putting yourself in an uncomfortable situation, communicating uncomfortable feelings. Your master will recognize that your discomfort is a sign of thinking about him and HIS concern and your desire not to displease him. Keeping your mouth shut and not communicating would mean that you care more about not putting yourself in an uncomfortable situation than you do about wanting to become a better slave.

If you'd like, it may be easier to give a physical sign of your submission to your master before communicating these thoughts to him. My idea (which my master sent me over here to type) was to write that letter with all of your questions and thoughts, but to present it in a way that's both creative and submissive. He will appreciate your creativity and the time you've put into showing your submission in ways that he hasn't directly called for. Try dressing up in a way that pleases your master. Serving an extra special dinner and dessert that he knows is just for him. Taking a night to be extra attentive (of course, I like to do this when he isn't expecting it anyway; surprising your master with extra attention never hurts, even if there's no occassion). Let your master know that you both adore and love him and enjoy being his slave and serving him. At some point, present the letter to your master. Perhaps on a platter. Perhaps on your knees with your head bowed and the letter on your outstretched palms. He may not even take it or look at it, at first, but continue in your submission, even after he's later opened and read it. You've told him your concerns. Now he's in total control of when to take up the conversation. He may not even say anything for a few days. You never know because if we could predict our masters, then why would we be slaves? But be patient and continue on as you have before.

I'm also the very shy quiet type. When I have something to ask my master, I typically get on my knees and put my head on his lap. I look up at him and observe him. Sometimes he's at the computer or watching the television. I don't interrupt what he's doing. I wait until he looks down at me and makes eye contact. When I know he's ready to listen and I ask if I can ask him a question. After that, I know there's no stopping, because if I were to change my mind and not ask my question, he'd be displeased with me.

Having rituals in how to communicate can make it easier for both of you. It opens up the pathway of free thought between you and your master and maybe someday, you'll find yourself simply lying in bed with him, and the conversation will naturally lead to things that you'd been agonizing over for days but come out as naturally as breathing. Follow your woman's intuition, and you'll know the right times and places to discuss these things.

Your master should never be angry at you for being honest. While we live and love to please our master, our masters want to see us happy as well. We just . . . well . . . we find that happiness in pleasing our master while our masters find that happiness in us pleasing (and trying to please) them. Even when the effort falls short, often the attempt is enough. As my own master puts it, "I like when you take care of my things." Taking care of myself isn't just good for me, it's pleasing to him as well. :)

-R (slave to Obis) :)


< Message edited by lilriv -- 8/7/2006 2:31:44 AM >

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RE: A question of appropriate communication. - 8/7/2006 3:36:45 AM   
LL1aintbehavin


Posts: 104
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		behindmirrors.
i can understand that it is hard to find the right words to say things in the way you feel them, as to not make them sound disrespectful.  i had that problem for a while also, and my Dom would ask me what i was thinking so hard about and i said that i was trying to find the words to properly express what was on my mind.
He told me to just say what i was thinking, and if it was said in a way that he didn't care for He would tell me how to word it to His liking next time.  He stated that the most important part was that i shared all of my thoughts and concerns with Him.
The willingness to be totally open and vulnerable to Him was much more important than the actual wording that it came out in.
Perhaps asking permission to speak openly about some concerns that you have regarding the relationship may open a door.  Once given the freedom to speak clearly, He will probably be more foccused on what it is that is on your mind than the wording as well.
Respect is also important, and can be shown even when asking the difficult questions.
Best of luck in this.
aintbehavin

(in reply to lilriv)
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RE: A question of appropriate communication. - 8/7/2006 3:53:10 AM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lilriv

Perhaps on your knees with your head bowed and the letter on your outstretched palms. He may not even take it or look at it, at first, but continue in your submission, even after he's later opened and read it. You've told him your concerns. Now he's in total control of when to take up the conversation. He may not even say anything for a few days. You never know because if we could predict our masters, then why would we be slaves? But be patient and continue on as you have before.

I'm also the very shy quiet type. When I have something to ask my master, I typically get on my knees and put my head on his lap. I look up at him and observe him. Sometimes he's at the computer or watching the television. I don't interrupt what he's doing. I wait until he looks down at me and makes eye contact. When I know he's ready to listen and I ask if I can ask him a question. After that, I know there's no stopping, because if I were to change my mind and not ask my question, he'd be displeased with me.

Having rituals in how to communicate can make it easier for both of you. It opens up the pathway of free thought between you and your master and maybe someday, you'll find yourself simply lying in bed with him, and the conversation will naturally lead to things that you'd been agonizing over for days but come out as naturally as breathing. Follow your woman's intuition, and you'll know the right times and places to discuss these things.



Thank you lilriv,  that is worded so well, the tone and demeanor i want to be in just shines thru.  i will keep this posting.

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Profile   Post #: 15
RE: A question of appropriate communication. - 8/7/2006 8:36:38 AM   
behindmirrors


Posts: 340
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		First off, I just want to thank you all for the generous support you have given me in this. It felt wonderful to be able to read your reassurances, and it gave me a lot of strength to see that this could be done well.

Yesterday, I sat down and wrote a three page letter to my Dominant, telling him that there was so much I wanted to be able to talk about, and expressed my own nervousness in just bringing things up- though I did not go into specifics, I wrote to him that I wanted to do this showing all the respect to him I could and where my own mind was at- it was a letter to introduce the discussion I wished to have with him. I presented it to him on my knees, nude, and asked for his time in reading it.

He sent me upstairs so that I would not sit there nervously, and came up when he finished. We had a wonderful discussion for several hours, talking about all manner and variety of things related to my letter- boundaries, aspects we were interested in, rules and expectations, his wants and needs in addition to my own. He agreed last night to take time today to give me some written pages on what he wants of me, which I appreciate greatly and am looking forward to.  

He told me he was proud of me for being able to work through my own trepidations and discuss things with him openly, and that he appreciated my respect for him in the matter of making my own needs known but still allowing him the control to meet them. He also expressed to me that he was waiting to see what I would do in that situation, and that I did well in handling it. I could not have asked for a better outcome, and fell asleep in his arms.

Again, I thank you all so much for helping me with this. I am happy to be able to report back that things went well and that I am much more at ease. The support I got here was more than helpful in giving me the courage I needed to find a way to communicate better with him, and that is priceless to me. Thank you, thank you.

PS:
lilriv- Your post was beautiful. If you don't mind, I would like to save a copy of it. You expressed so eloquently the things I needed to hear, and I appreciate that you did so for me. If I could keep that as a reminder the next time I hesitate over something like this, it would mean a lot to me. Thank you.

obis: I am glad that you could see how much concern I feel for him, and that I want to be sincere and respectful at all times. Your confidence was very much appreciated, as was reassuring me that this was something he wanted to see me do, and that it was good to do so. Thank you.

(in reply to Mavis)
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RE: A question of appropriate communication. - 8/8/2006 7:42:23 PM   
Zenar


Posts: 39
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lilriv
Having rituals in how to communicate can make it easier for both of you. It opens up the pathway of free thought between you and your master and maybe someday, you'll find yourself simply lying in bed with him, and the conversation will naturally lead to things that you'd been agonizing over for days but come out as naturally as breathing. Follow your woman's intuition, and you'll know the right times and places to discuss these things.


A ritual of communication, I realy liked how this is worded. Such things should be done on a regular basis, I always thought a dominant or master should take special time out to listen to the needs of the one they care for. After all we are expected to look out for and protect that which would serve us. How are we to do this? Regardless of how powerfull we may or may not apear to be, we dont always have all the answers and we dont always automaticly know everything. We want to know as much as possible so if a submisive does not tell us every thing they feel then we are often left with a feeling of disapointment in not knowing. Once this gets to a point of comfort, that you both can talk openly it may even be taken to part of play from time to time. Might make a fun interogation scene? Not every thing about open conversations have to be boring, make it fun.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lilriv
Your master should never be angry at you for being honest. While we live and love to please our master, our masters want to see us happy as well. We just . . . well . . . we find that happiness in pleasing our master while our masters find that happiness in us pleasing (and trying to please) them. Even when the effort falls short, often the attempt is enough. As my own master puts it, "I like when you take care of my things." Taking care of myself isn't just good for me, it's pleasing to him as well. :)


There is the power exchange. Not everyone put this high on the list of things to enjoy but many do. The enjoyment a master feels when they are making their submisive feel good. That feeling of protecting what we have and caring for it, nurturing it. Just as a submisive wants to be caring and nurturing for a dominant or master, most of the time the same is still true in the reverse, just a slightly different perspective.

I would only add to this the one fear many dominant will have early on in a relation such as this. The submisive of course is wantnig firm bounderies from the begining but as a master we would want to know as many details about the submisive as possible before setting bounderies. Some of these things we want to know cannot simply be said, but must be observed to be true and that takes time. From our perspective is that once we set a rule or boundery then it is most difiuclt to later make changes. So here is where communication becomes so very important especialy early on. How can a master make good well founded descisions unless they have good well founded facts to go on?


< Message edited by Zenar -- 8/8/2006 7:45:00 PM >

_____________________________

I know I am a mean evil bastard, but at least I am honest about it.

(in reply to lilriv)
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RE: A question of appropriate communication. - 8/8/2006 7:50:12 PM   
Tangler


Posts: 5
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline 		Just speak to him openly.  If you feel a ritual is needed than ask his permission to speak to him.  After you speak to him comes the time to listen.  Listen well, do not interupt him and if you need something clarified at the end ask for it to be.  Oh and never say you understand something or accept something that you really do not.
 
Good luck to the both of you.
 

(in reply to behindmirrors)
Profile   Post #: 18
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