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The importance of protocol / formality? - 8/9/2006 1:50:39 AM

hkwolf

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/8/2006
Status: offline

Hello everyone.

I've been reading online and going to munches etc trying to learn. Both, where I fit in (dom/switch/sub) and given that, who to seek out. My profile currently says "switch" because I haven't figured out what orientation I am. I find myself strongly attracted to Dominant women, but not the heavily ritualized social interactions. When reading the "newbie primer" thread about the qualities that many Dominant women seek, I thought, that's me! But then the rest of this forum seems to be a lot about "the sub must do this but not that, etc." it seems rigid & formulaic to me. I'm in a leadership position professionally, tend to be extroverted socially, and never let people take advantage. I love martial arts & other highly physical activities. I don't identify with femme boi types at all. Yet, in all the relationships I've had I've ended up with sub women and have not been satisified to the point that often times I could not get sexually aroused. When I browse various Dominant females' profiles here, many say things like "you are a lowly worm and are expected to pay tribute to Me with no expectation of anyting in return and you will wear a chastity belt at all times". I just can't see myself getting involved in an arrangement like that. Yet, I often dream about meeting a Dominant woman with whom I could have a "natural" relationship in which she took the lead, and I deferred to her (though not without debate), and we we enjoyed various kinks, but didn't have a high degree of formality & separation of play roles vs day-to-day life.

As you can see, I'm confused. Sometimes I try to put the interest on the back burner as unresolvable, yet I always end up back on a forum like collarme. Am I misunderstanding something about the protocol/formality? Does anybody seek/have experience with the "natural" type of relationship I described? Why does there seem to be a bifurcation between loving girlfriend & Domme?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Post #: 1

RE: The importance of protocol / formality? - 8/9/2006 7:49:20 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

If the majority of the profiles you have read contain information that is a turn off -- "lowly worm" comments or ideas about high protocol, what is attracting you to that profile?

Looks? Anyone can grab a picture and put it up.

Something she said in a forum? Frankly I think this is a much better way to judge an initial interest. Read what someone says, go back and read previous post, find someone whose revealed philosophy in the forums clicks with you.

Then check out the profile. Does it match? Are you still interested?

The fact is that someone who is being themselves on the forums and in their profiles will reveal their opinions about many things if you start reading. A poser will not have consistant views and opinions. Thus you eleminate the posers immediately and can find someone closer to your viewpoint just by investing the time in reading.

Every woman has a different view of BDSM even those who think they are in 100% agreement with "their femdom friends" probably have different views from each other. Just like men.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to hkwolf)

Post #: 2

RE: The importance of protocol / formality? - 8/9/2006 8:37:42 AM

MisPandora

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

Yep, I think in your just being involved on forums and not in real life....you're missing a big point. BDSM is what it is for the individuals in question. Not all of us are into high protocol for newbs. Not all of us are into being completely lacksadasical either. Most of us are somewhere in the middle and take things in stride, realizing that not everyone KNOWS what protocol is, or for that matter, even have a clue about basic manners that your Momma should have taught you.

This lifestyle DOES require an amazing amount of patience and intestinal fortitude. If you weren't born with manners, work on that, as most of us require at least that. The other two....well, if you don't have them, you'll either get fed up and leave, or you'll learn real quick :-)

Besides all of that -- why do you need to know what you want without ever even experiencing this life? How about going and getting involved with a local munch group or SM club and seeing all sides of the equation in real-honest-to-goodness life?

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to hkwolf)

Post #: 3

RE: The importance of protocol / formality? - 8/9/2006 9:09:25 AM

hkwolf

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/8/2006
Status: offline

MisPandora & TammyJo, thanks for the replies.

I have been to quite a few munches, fetish parties, and the like. Perhaps I've been overly cautious about approaching the Domme's...having read so many rants about ill-mannered newbs, I've been trying to polish some of that off, but I guess there's only so far you can get by reading and not doing...I certainly don't want to be one of those "online only" people, real life is 10x more enjoyable.

(in reply to MisPandora)

Post #: 4

RE: The importance of protocol / formality? - 8/9/2006 9:30:23 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hkwolf

MisPandora & TammyJo, thanks for the replies.

I have been to quite a few munches, fetish parties, and the like. Perhaps I've been overly cautious about approaching the Domme's...having read so many rants about ill-mannered newbs, I've been trying to polish some of that off, but I guess there's only so far you can get by reading and not doing...I certainly don't want to be one of those "online only" people, real life is 10x more enjoyable.

I'd say make as a good and as well-informed opinion about whom it might be good to approach. Besides considering the profile and their postings (which I think is better than just profiles) look at things like distance and always respect any preferences in the profile.

I'm with MisPandora in that I think offline is a better way to find partners. Sounds like you do lots of things offline though.

Here's a weird bit of my reality. When I'm not looking, that is when I have found my best and longest-term partners. I was just being me, they were just being them, and we realized there was some interested and started talking. Who approached who then varied. With Fox I approached him but before him, Faith (who I owned for 18 months beyond training) approached me.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to hkwolf)

Post #: 5

RE: The importance of protocol / formality? - 8/9/2006 11:40:51 AM

MisPandora

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hkwolf

MisPandora & TammyJo, thanks for the replies.

I have been to quite a few munches, fetish parties, and the like. Perhaps I've been overly cautious about approaching the Domme's...having read so many rants about ill-mannered newbs, I've been trying to polish some of that off, but I guess there's only so far you can get by reading and not doing...I certainly don't want to be one of those "online only" people, real life is 10x more enjoyable.

I apparently missed (and don't know how) the mention of offline involvement in your original post. I still am pretty emphatic about the part that protocol has it's place, as does manners and common sense. A little bit of all three are tremendously helpful.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to hkwolf)

Post #: 6

RE: The importance of protocol / formality? - 8/9/2006 12:55:01 PM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

You'll find that not all femdoms desire a specific type of submissive man. Those that seek the stereotypical "worm" or doormat or insist on immediate ownership/rules are more of a minority, except for those seeking cash and catering to a strict male fantasy.

Many femdoms seek relationships that are "normal" to outsiders, but contain their own elements of domination. This is more a matter of finding a woman that you see eye to eye with. You'll also find that these women tire of the groveling subs, the men ready to "do anything" at the drop of the hat and those that want a woman in complete control of everything. A lot of women don't want to micromanage. A lot of women like a little spark of resistance, and the passion that comes from seduction or taking a man down a path that makes him nervous.

So keep looking!

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to hkwolf)

Post #: 7

RE: The importance of protocol / formality? - 8/9/2006 1:33:21 PM

hkwolf

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/8/2006
Status: offline

Is it really You AAkasha?

I LOVE your website!! I've been reading it fairly regularly for several years. Your "office slave" series was great. Thanks for your reply. Your perspective gives me hope.

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 8

RE: The importance of protocol / formality? - 8/9/2006 5:04:17 PM

Sylverdawn

Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Hmmm.. I suppose it depends.. I like the formality of Mistress and submissive when we are outside in the lifestyle world.. I enjoy seeing him stand at attention.. be ogled a bit by others .. but at home inside the daily living things are definately more relaxed.. he still remembers the little things like sitting on my right.. or even on the floor at times.. when I want to pet his hair.. for me protocal is an internal thing... Formality for those times when its expected because the dishes still need to door and the rent still needs paying..life goes on without me getting a say so.

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to hkwolf)

Post #: 9

RE: The importance of protocol / formality? - 8/9/2006 8:26:45 PM

HouseofBear

Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/9/2005
Status: offline

You need to seek the type of dominant that also fits in with your own personal style and needs. This may sound like heresy to some, however that is indeed important. What is high protocol to one may not be the same to another. Also what some term protocol would be better defined as personal rituals within that relationship. Some dominants want their subs/slave to walk to their left or right side, others desire them to walk behind them, and yet others to the front in order to ensure the path is clear for them. Some incorporate a lot of rituals, and some have only a few that have meaning for them. I personally prefer my sub/slave to walk at my right side (stepping forward to open doors), to kneel or sit at my right knee unless I direct them to sit at my side. Most other "public rules" are those of simple good manners. Keep searching, there are many of us who do not get into the "you are a worm" mentality, and prefer a loving, caring relationship based on a D/s or M/s dynamic.

Lady Ursa

(in reply to Sylverdawn)

Post #: 10

RE: The importance of protocol / formality? - 8/9/2006 11:52:46 PM

SweetDommes

Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline

Some of us are anti-protocol and formality ... manners are required, and courtesey - but the whole "high protocol" thing is totally wasted on people like Holly and me.

We are definitely Dominant, but mostly laid back. And there are definitely others out there like us.

(in reply to HouseofBear)

Post #: 11

RE: The importance of protocol / formality? - 8/10/2006 12:28:04 AM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hkwolf

Hello everyone.

I've been reading online and going to munches etc trying to learn. Both, where I fit in (dom/switch/sub) and given that, who to seek out. My profile currently says "switch" because I haven't figured out what orientation I am. I find myself strongly attracted to Dominant women, but not the heavily ritualized social interactions. When reading the "newbie primer" thread about the qualities that many Dominant women seek, I thought, that's me! But then the rest of this forum seems to be a lot about "the sub must do this but not that, etc." it seems rigid & formulaic to me. I'm in a leadership position professionally, tend to be extroverted socially, and never let people take advantage. I love martial arts & other highly physical activities. I don't identify with femme boi types at all. Yet, in all the relationships I've had I've ended up with sub women and have not been satisified to the point that often times I could not get sexually aroused. When I browse various Dominant females' profiles here, many say things like "you are a lowly worm and are expected to pay tribute to Me with no expectation of anyting in return and you will wear a chastity belt at all times". I just can't see myself getting involved in an arrangement like that. Yet, I often dream about meeting a Dominant woman with whom I could have a "natural" relationship in which she took the lead, and I deferred to her (though not without debate), and we we enjoyed various kinks, but didn't have a high degree of formality & separation of play roles vs day-to-day life.

As you can see, I'm confused. Sometimes I try to put the interest on the back burner as unresolvable, yet I always end up back on a forum like collarme. Am I misunderstanding something about the protocol/formality? Does anybody seek/have experience with the "natural" type of relationship I described? Why does there seem to be a bifurcation between loving girlfriend & Domme?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

You're writing with your heart...... and not trying to win anyone's approval - I commend you for that.

I would just tell you that there are many fine, warm, understanding women right here in these forums.... hang tight...participate and you'll meet some of them with your attitude.

Best wishes.

- R

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to hkwolf)

Post #: 12

RE: The importance of protocol / formality? - 8/10/2006 1:21:17 AM

hkwolf

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/8/2006
Status: offline

Thanks all. Glad I decided to join this board. I've read through many of the threads and there seems to be a genuine community here. I feel encouraged by your feedback. In just another month I'll have more free time to attend meatspace events.

Cheers!

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 13

RE: The importance of protocol / formality? - 8/10/2006 5:21:47 AM

Oumae

Posts: 911
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline

Good luck with getting out and about hkwolf. Continue to be yourself, there are all types of Dom/mes and subs and you'll have more luck finding one compatible if you are upfront.

Oumae

_____________________________

Is cuma le fear na mbrog ca leagann se a chos.
( The man with the boots does not mind where he places his foot)

(in reply to hkwolf)

Post #: 14

RE: The importance of protocol / formality? - 8/10/2006 2:28:31 PM

mp072004

Posts: 381
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline

Most relationships, including romantic relationships, involve inequal power. There doesn't have to be a bifurcation between love and inequal power. To notice the prevalence of inequal power in relationships, look around at your coupled friends--it's likely that one partner 'wears the pants', as it were. It also seems that many d/s couples, that is, people who have explicitly agreed to power inequality, have and enjoy romantic relationships, often including integration into the partners' families, owning property jointly, and marrying.

The absence of high protocol doesn't necessarily signal the presence of a dominant girlfriend, though. I like a low-protocol, high-authority arrangement, where dominance means making decisions and receiving obedience, not using capital letters for first person pronouns. I also do not want a romantic d/s relationship.

Honestly, if you simply want to be the subject partner in a romantic relationship, you can broaden your search and look for authoritative women who don't identify with BDSM. It's not very hard to determine whether a person perceives himself or herself as dominant to you or subject to you.

I found part of your message confusing. You intend to defer to your partner, "but not without debate." If you intend to defer to her, meaning that you intend to yield to her judgments, why would you also intend to debate her, meaning that you would try to persuade her that a different conclusion would be better?

Monica

(in reply to hkwolf)

Post #: 15

RE: The importance of protocol / formality? - 8/10/2006 4:52:12 PM

jonathan

Posts: 196
Joined: 8/5/2004
Status: offline

It's important, to some extent. The degree that is expected depends on the Lady. For now, at least, my Goddess just demands simple respect, but has made it clear that as we progress, there are some protocols as part of daily life together that She must have. Fine with me. Being as i am, i thrive on ritual and protocol, but i neither need nor want micromangement and She does not relish that either. Maybe i have some advantage in being raised to behave as a traditional gentleman, so some behaviors just come naturally to me. UtopianRanger's advice was the best, it worked for me. And that is indeed The Akasha you recognize.

Once upon a time i was a bit confused, too. You sound not unlike me 10 years ago.

_____________________________

jonathan
http://www.slaveregister.com/000-515-587

"But in purple, i am stunning!"
"Before You slip into unconsciousness, i'd like to have another kiss, another flashing chance at bliss, another kiss, another kiss"

(in reply to hkwolf)

Post #: 16

RE: The importance of protocol / formality? - 8/14/2006 9:27:50 PM

MisstressStella

Posts: 26
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Birmingham, Alabama
Status: offline

Protocols and Rituals are tradition in BDSM. In a D/s realtionship, there may be many different levels of protocal and ritual observed. Some are more strict with the traditions while others could careless. I think if you really learn the traditions you will see that they are rich in history and meaning. The "you are a worm" way of thinking is not in my opinion, tradition. While a Dominant Female may observe traditions, it is more a matter of respect and "manners" so to speak. In the lifestyle, there are lots of newbies, wanna be Dominants, and nuts. I think finding a good match for you first requires that you do some deep soul searching and outline for yourself what is the ideal match for you. Once you determine that, you will know her when you meet her. You may have to approach many FemDoms before you meet the one that is a good match for you. Ahh but the bliss will be sweet when you meet your match. Don't rule out a FemDom because she observes traditions. You may find that they serve a purpose and are quite respectful.

Best Wishes to you in your quest,
Stella

(in reply to jonathan)

Post #: 17

RE: The importance of protocol / formality? - 8/16/2006 2:04:03 AM

mons

Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

greetings to all

sugar you will find what you need take you time and you will know when the excitiment hits you i wish you luck

mons

(in reply to MisstressStella)

Post #: 18

RE: The importance of protocol / formality? - 8/16/2006 6:54:02 AM

Tentayne

Posts: 7
Joined: 7/7/2006
Status: offline

This thread has been extremely helpful to me. Just wanted to say thanks.

(in reply to mons)

Post #: 19

RE: The importance of protocol / formality? - 8/16/2006 3:05:25 PM

LadyAlexa

Posts: 141
Joined: 1/2/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hkwolf

MisPandora & TammyJo, thanks for the replies.

I have been to quite a few munches, fetish parties, and the like. Perhaps I've been overly cautious about approaching the Domme's...having read so many rants about ill-mannered newbs, I've been trying to polish some of that off, but I guess there's only so far you can get by reading and not doing...I certainly don't want to be one of those "online only" people, real life is 10x more enjoyable.

One way to meet Dommes is via other submissives or their Doms. Several times I've been approached by either Doms or subs of my acquaintance who actually state: there's someone I'd like you to meet' or 'there is someone who would like to meet you.
That allows me to make the choice of actually meeting someone right there or giving it some thought [was I just leaving; am I getting ready to play]

Courtesy goes a long way with males or females. I always appreciate anyone who opens doors, helps others with carrying items, asking if they can be of assistance in anyway [and not expecting anything except thanks in return]. One friend of mine stated they use to talk with others after watching them play or ask them what they had in their play bags.

One thing to keep in mind: Most of us have a sense of humor. Sometimes it's very sarcastic, very subtle, or just wild. I've said some things which others have taken quite literally [yeah I'm gonna beat that boy till he bleeds out of his nose then make him lick it up; yuck, I don't do blood play]. There are many levels of D/s and bdsm; there are also many folks who have honest, wierd, conventional, way out there, false, ridiculous, and just too strange profiles......so you don't believe everything you read or hear.

If you know what you want, then seek it out but allow yourself to be open enough to expirement along the way of finding someone of your dreams.

_____________________________

Lady Alexa
[amber]

Submission is key not gender.

GLBT approved.

(in reply to hkwolf)

Post #: 20

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