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RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" - 8/10/2006 11:55:30 AM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The situation with Israel (and the rest) does not EXCUSE these plots, but it EXPLAINS the anger which produces the nutters plotting against us all. After all, are we not getting pretty pissed off with these attacks on our people and culture?

I expect it to be not too long before mosques are burning all over Europe. It wont solve anything, just like today's plots wouldnt have solved anything, but it sure does express anger and resistance just the same.

The problem with such retaliations though, is that they will bring things rapidly to a head and result in widespread death and destruction of mostly innocents as is usual in conflict.

The question is whether we are ready for such a conflict?
E


I have to disagree with you. I think most of us in The West understand that Islam has been hijacked by these fanatics. We are not at war with all of Islam. But the problem is, that because of our values and our not being Muslim, we are hated by these fanatics. Unfortunately, eradicating them to a point where they are no longer a danger is the only way. To appease evil is to let evil win.

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(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" - 8/10/2006 11:58:32 AM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: Magnifidomme

I find the scale of the casualties perfectly imaginable. I just turn on my tele each evening and see crimes of this scale committed by the Israelis with weapons supplied by their sponsor state the US. I  am sick to death of manaiacal Islamic terrorists, but I am also getting fed up to the back teeth of having this shadow over my life in order to allow the Israelis to enjoy the luxury of their dubiously legitimate state


So what should Israel do? Let itself be destroyed? I would imagine that Israel is a lot sicker of Islamic terrorists than you are. You may get your favorite tv shows interrupted, but they are fighting for survival.


Why can't it fight for itself? Why do you and I have to keep funding Israel? I'd bet huge money if it were left up to a vote of the people....Israel would be cut off by the tax payers in this country. I'm tired of paying for Israel day in and day out. I've heard of standing up for your allies.... but funding the bulk of their conflict is absurd - We can't afford it.



 - R


Edited to add :  I've never quite understood how 12 -13 million people could have so much juice and influence on planet that has 6.5 billon people


< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 8/10/2006 12:08:51 PM >

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" - 8/10/2006 12:06:36 PM   
captiveplatypus


Posts: 382
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: captiveplatypus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: captiveplatypus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: captiveplatypus

Our governments are begging for retaliation.  We started this a long time ago.



When exactly did we start this?


The creation of Israel?  The Crusades?  Regime changes?


So of all the countries in the world, Israel is the only one who doesn't have the right to exist?
And we did regime change in Japan and Germany too, I don't see them blowing up any airplanes.
And I may be wrong, but I don't think The US was around during The Crusades.


I know it was not (The US) but this is also directed at England as well.  Japan and Germany were allies in a war on a large scale already that attacked on our soil.  Yes Osama and his men attacked us, I am not disputing the war in Afghanistan after 9/11.  I think the US and UK have stuck their noses in so many places they didn't belong at this point that there is no way any of this will end now without WWIII.  To bad we didn't go after the country that actually has and was making nukes, and now they have them, and firing off test rounds.  Yay!


I asked this of another poster here, and didn't get much of an answer. If this is all a retaliation because of the US and Britain's actions, why did terrorists infiltrate Canada? Canada isn't fighting anyone, and have not sided with the US and Britain over Iraq. Why would they be targeted by these Islamic fanatics? My guess would be, because they are a Western society and easily infiltrated because of their adcceptance of everyone. I guess those are good reasons to be attacked. 


Are you sure they were there to attack Canada?  I remember seeing that post and thinking they might have been there to get closer to the US.

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" - 8/10/2006 12:08:21 PM   
captiveplatypus


Posts: 382
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The situation with Israel (and the rest) does not EXCUSE these plots, but it EXPLAINS the anger which produces the nutters plotting against us all. After all, are we not getting pretty pissed off with these attacks on our people and culture?

I expect it to be not too long before mosques are burning all over Europe. It wont solve anything, just like today's plots wouldnt have solved anything, but it sure does express anger and resistance just the same.

The problem with such retaliations though, is that they will bring things rapidly to a head and result in widespread death and destruction of mostly innocents as is usual in conflict.

The question is whether we are ready for such a conflict?
E


Yes, agreed, it does not excuse the violence, but it does give a reason behind it.  And to be honest, I think the American Government has begun also using our millitary to "terrorize" other governments, which has only exascerbated the problem.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" - 8/10/2006 12:09:22 PM   
captiveplatypus


Posts: 382
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The situation with Israel (and the rest) does not EXCUSE these plots, but it EXPLAINS the anger which produces the nutters plotting against us all. After all, are we not getting pretty pissed off with these attacks on our people and culture?

I expect it to be not too long before mosques are burning all over Europe. It wont solve anything, just like today's plots wouldnt have solved anything, but it sure does express anger and resistance just the same.

The problem with such retaliations though, is that they will bring things rapidly to a head and result in widespread death and destruction of mostly innocents as is usual in conflict.

The question is whether we are ready for such a conflict?
E


I have to disagree with you. I think most of us in The West understand that Islam has been hijacked by these fanatics. We are not at war with all of Islam. But the problem is, that because of our values and our not being Muslim, we are hated by these fanatics. Unfortunately, eradicating them to a point where they are no longer a danger is the only way. To appease evil is to let evil win.


genocide is absolutely not the answer.  It will never work, and only make us just as bad, if not worse, then our enemies.

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" - 8/10/2006 12:30:40 PM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		captiveplatypus:

You must have missed where Estring mentioned they were "E-V-I-L". See - that explains everything, right?

Them = EVIL
Us = GOOD

So therefore when we commit atrocities it's a GOOD thing. When they commit atrocities it's an EVIL thing. I am surprised this has to be explained to you...

_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to captiveplatypus)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" - 8/10/2006 12:37:55 PM   
captiveplatypus


Posts: 382
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

captiveplatypus:

You must have missed where Estring mentioned they were "E-V-I-L". See - that explains everything, right?

Them = EVIL
Us = GOOD

So therefore when we commit atrocities it's a GOOD thing. When they commit atrocities it's an EVIL thing. I am surprised this has to be explained to you...


Oh, dude, my bad.   I forgot.  It's the war (that we started) that made that guy rape that little girl and kill her family.  Darn those Iraqi's for not producing those weapons they didn't have the capability to make and forcing us to invade and sexually abuse our POW's, too!  I can't understand why they're mad!! 

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" - 8/10/2006 12:38:15 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Ahhh yes, the evil-doers. Who are these mythical evil-doers? Are they like the illegal aliens and from another planet?

We must tame evil or else we're all going to die!!!

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" - 8/10/2006 2:22:29 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: captiveplatypus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The situation with Israel (and the rest) does not EXCUSE these plots, but it EXPLAINS the anger which produces the nutters plotting against us all. After all, are we not getting pretty pissed off with these attacks on our people and culture?

I expect it to be not too long before mosques are burning all over Europe. It wont solve anything, just like today's plots wouldnt have solved anything, but it sure does express anger and resistance just the same.

The problem with such retaliations though, is that they will bring things rapidly to a head and result in widespread death and destruction of mostly innocents as is usual in conflict.

The question is whether we are ready for such a conflict?
E


I have to disagree with you. I think most of us in The West understand that Islam has been hijacked by these fanatics. We are not at war with all of Islam. But the problem is, that because of our values and our not being Muslim, we are hated by these fanatics. Unfortunately, eradicating them to a point where they are no longer a danger is the only way. To appease evil is to let evil win.


genocide is absolutely not the answer.  It will never work, and only make us just as bad, if not worse, then our enemies.


What genocide are you talking about? The genocide that Israel is threatened with?

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to captiveplatypus)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" - 8/10/2006 2:53:39 PM   
CatNmouse2002


Posts: 110
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

That's how they just described this bomb threat at London's Heathrow Airport.
In my humble opinion we need to decertify "Islam" as a "religion" and re-classify it as a dangerous cult and outlaw it in Western countries just like Christianity is outlawed in "Islamic" countries.
They also had an interview with a journalist in England and he said that there are "2 million islamic fundamentalists in Britain who are *openly hostile* to British authorities and British Society."
I think this situation has crossed the line to where it can no longer be defended in any way by the "Politically Correct."
**They just reported (CNN) that the terrorists had planned to blow up TEN (10) Airplanes over the Atlantic with liquid explosives.**
As far as I'm concerned, let the mass deportations begin!
It's obvious that these people are not going to stop.
Oh, and if anyone in here would like to call me a "Bigot" go right ahead.


I think Christianity should be next on the chopping block . With their intolerant right and left wing extreme-ists .They are already a danger to the people . Bombing doctors offices and preaching hate on the street corners .

.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" - 8/10/2006 3:20:56 PM   
captiveplatypus


Posts: 382
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		I was speaking of the genocide you proposed.  Lowering ourselves to their standards in not the answer.

< Message edited by captiveplatypus -- 8/10/2006 4:01:14 PM >

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" - 8/10/2006 4:29:16 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		i knew that the U S and Briton would be blamed for yet another terrorist plot, but i thought it would take at least 24 hours. We are basically in world war III.  

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" - 8/10/2006 4:45:44 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: captiveplatypus

I know it was not (The US) but this is also directed at England as well.  Japan and Germany were allies in a war on a large scale already that attacked on our soil.  Yes Osama and his men attacked us, I am not disputing the war in Afghanistan after 9/11.  I think the US and UK have stuck their noses in so many places they didn't belong at this point that there is no way any of this will end now without WWIII.  To bad we didn't go after the country that actually has and was making nukes, and now they have them, and firing off test rounds.  Yay!


*emphasis mine*
 
So, you'd support an attack on North Korea?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to captiveplatypus)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" - 8/10/2006 4:46:29 PM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Lady Ellen, the thing is is that there'll be another "21" or "50" or whatever sometime in the future.
"We" have to be "lucky" every single time.
"They" only have to be "lucky" once.
Muslims just can't live or be in Western countries anymore.
They called it, not us.


I agree. To a point. The Muslim doctrine does not call for violence. This is a bastardization of the religion - it is only a hiding place for insane extremists, much like David Koresh and his brand of religion. Koresh (et al) didn't have the money to do what bin Laden has done or I think he would have done it, or something like it.

The Good Guys did get lucky this time. There are more attacks on the way. Unfortunately, the Bad Guys have lotsa money and obviously have a great line about virgins and heaven ... and oh yeah ... the part about "We'll give your family enough money to avoid starvation" is probably icing on the cake. 

There is an answer to the madness. Unfortunately, no one's thought of it yet, OR there's too much money in "bad news" for the answer to be worthwhile.

Ahhh yeah. This should keep the conspiracy theorists busy for a little while.

_____________________________

Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" - 8/10/2006 4:48:47 PM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

We must tame evil or else we're all going to die!!!


This is not intended to be a shot at you, but if you have a piece of a solution, it would certainly be worth hearing. We could stop the madness right now if we could put our heads together.

_____________________________

Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" - 8/10/2006 5:11:02 PM   
Daddy4UdderSlut


Posts: 240
Joined: 4/2/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MmakeMme

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

We must tame evil or else we're all going to die!!!


This is not intended to be a shot at you, but if you have a piece of a solution, it would certainly be worth hearing. We could stop the madness right now if we could put our heads together.


I don't have any simple solutions, and I don't think there are any... while I am not a terrorist sympathizer, and in fact, am not troubled in the least when *terrorists* are killed... the whole problem is, that when we, or Israel go after, it's with rather blunt instruments of force.  Many more innocent people die than terrorists, to which supporters of massive force cavalierly shrug "Oh well, that's unfortunate, but shit happens".  To which I would say, on a moral basis, what is the distinction then, between so-called terrorists and armies, if each kills many innocents to acheive their goals?  Just the uniforms?

I think that heavy handed violence inflicted on thousands or tens of thousands only feeds the fire.  You can't solve a problem of hatred by widespread indiscrimant killing.  It doesn't work for them, it won't work for us. Collateral damage is our enemy in this war.

To me, the use of force should be surgical, and based on accurate intelligence.  To do that, much more use should be made of special forces, and they should recieve extensive training in the language and the culture, in order to work effectively and to help direct the force that is used.

We should make a *sincere* attempt to build the economies of Afghanistan and Iraq.  Furthermore, reconstruction efforts should use *local* firms - the opposite of what we have done until now, which was to line the pockets of rich foreign (usually US-based) multinational companies.  That will give people something to do, and put money in their pockets.  It will earn goodwill there, help to dispel the widespread notion that the US does everything for self-interest and give people pride in their work.  It should help to make some businesses more sophistictated there and to grow them.  If we spent half as much money helping them as we did bombing them, I think we'd have gotten a lot further.

We should stop blindly supporting Israel in everything they do, no matter how unfair or brutal.  That rightfully earns us a good bit of the wrath we have incurred.  We should try to become a fair broker for mideast peace there.  If we do not, there is simply no treaty that can hold the place together.

(in reply to MmakeMme)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" - 8/10/2006 5:15:09 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		I'm not sure this is going to be a popular opinion but my unmentionable was on a flight today coming home from her holidays without me. Now i know the threat was on planes leaving the U.Ks airports but it was still mighty frightening to me.
Now i personally blame George Bush and Tony Blair for all this shit. Tony Blair for sticking his head up George bushes ass cos hes too scared to do anything different and George Bush for involving us in all his shit. How eloquent am i today?
All this stems from the U.K being involved in Americas dealings that are jack shit to do with us. So George Bush is sending us some security to put in our airports. It works out at four men to each airport. How the hell are four men over 24 hours going to make a difference?
Ok my rant is over.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to MmakeMme)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" - 8/10/2006 5:20:35 PM   
EnglishDomNW


Posts: 493
Joined: 12/24/2005
Status: offline 		I wish people would make a distinction between "Muslim" and "Terrorist".  Prince Charles is very fond of Islam, he has spoken out in support of it the whole world over. 

I don't think he's about to try and bring Britain to its knees through terrorism in the name of Islam though.

Just one other point - the first person to die in the 7/7 London Underground bombings was a Muslim girl.  These vermin don't care who they kill, so long as they make a lot of noise doing it.

_____________________________


"I am woman hear me roar!"

(Yes and I am Man, keep the noise down, bitch.)
.

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" - 8/10/2006 5:26:17 PM   
fullofgrace


Posts: 395
Joined: 3/24/2006
From: fl, usa
Status: offline
quote:

In my humble opinion we need to decertify "Islam" as a "religion" and re-classify it as a dangerous cult and outlaw it in Western countries just like Christianity is outlawed in "Islamic" countries.


oh yes, let's punish a whole religion for the actions of its extremists :) especially religious people in other countries who have been faithful citizens.

christianity is not outlawed in islamic countries, as far as i know. christians are a minority, but they're there.


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i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" - 8/10/2006 5:42:10 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		OK   so here is food for thought on this issue.   If the US provided weapons to Isreal AND the Arab countries, and the Russians provided weapons to most of the 3d world countries and the Arabs, then where is the problem?   And if Islam and the OLD Testiment (Jews and Christians) both trace their religions to the same roots, where is the problem?


(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 40
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