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What if? - 8/13/2006 5:34:24 AM   
meatcleaver


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Status: offline 		I listened to an interesting interview on BBC world service today with the historian Niall Ferguson who has some controversial theories about history. It prompted me into my own little game of what if and one he touched on. What if the British Empire had never happened? There would be no USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, Israel and many other countries. Yes the physical land would be there, and would probably inhabited by many different peoples than it would be today. One can start this fantasy from any historical time or geographical point. Fascinating to muse upon.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmes/the_interview.shtml

The interview is worth listening to but it would be interesting to hear other people's idea of 'what if?'
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RE: What if? - 8/13/2006 6:01:12 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		What if the trees moving made the wind blow?

(From the 'Ransom of Red Chief')

I like to consider these scenarios, time-to-tiome.....

good ideas...
Ron


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RE: What if? - 8/13/2006 8:20:53 AM   
LotusSong


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Status: offline 		Good thread :)



What if nuclear power never was discovered?

What if Hitler never was born?

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RE: What if? - 8/13/2006 9:56:31 AM   
CrappyDom


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Status: offline 		Considering that many historians now believe that the population of the Americas was greater than that of Europe and vastly more civilized, I think the world would be a very interesting place.

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RE: What if? - 8/13/2006 3:57:38 PM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		What if we were hatched from eggs, well educated, and aged backwards - Yeah I remember Mork from Ork.

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RE: What if? - 8/13/2006 4:01:34 PM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		There'd be a U.S. if there was no British Empire.
We'd simply be speaking Dutch instead of English.

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RE: What if? - 8/13/2006 4:30:31 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Good thread :)

What if nuclear power never was discovered?

What if Hitler never was born?


*emphasis added*

Then you'd have to find someone else to compare Bush to lol.

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RE: What if? - 8/13/2006 4:55:48 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

There'd be a U.S. if there was no British Empire.
We'd simply be speaking Dutch instead of English.


I think French, Spanish and Russian would be a lot more likely.  No thanks.

Sudent of history that I am, I like more subtle "what if's" myself.  Like what if George III had been a little wiser man and Pitt the Elder had been a healthier one?  The War of Independence might never have happened. 

Or, what if the liberal Kaiser Friedrich III had accepted the first diagnosis of his German doctor and had the cancer removed in time to save his life?  He might have ruled for three decades, rather than three months and turned the German Empire into a Constitutional Monarchy, thus avoiding the absolutism favored by his son, Wilhelm II.  In which case, in 1914 the German and British Empires may still have been on very friendly terms and the World Wars of the 20th Century may have never happened.  Hitler would never have been more than a failed artist, Lenin would have died in exile and we would be living in a profoundly different world.  All due to one decision made by one man.

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RE: What if? - 8/13/2006 5:02:27 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Considering that many historians now believe that the population of the Americas was greater than that of Europe and vastly more civilized, I think the world would be a very interesting place.


Would these "historians" happen to be from the Howard Zinn school of revisionist history?

Vastly more civilized?  Flower wars for the purpose of taking captives to be used for human sacrifice in cultures that never invented either the wheel or writing don't strike me as "vastly more civilized."

< Message edited by HarryVanWinkle -- 8/13/2006 5:04:08 PM >

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RE: What if? - 8/13/2006 5:11:03 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Good thread :)

What if nuclear power never was discovered?


Had nuclear power never been discovered, many of us might never had been born due to our fathers or grandfathers having been killed in the invasion of Japan, an invasion I'm not convinced would have succeeded.

Also, had nuclear power not been discovered, the Cold War would have been a very, very Hot War, instead.

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RE: What if? - 8/13/2006 5:21:27 PM   
juliaoceania


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Status: offline 		Ever here of a show called Sliders? It was a science fiction tv show that focused on these questions by focusing on parallel universes. My son and I used to watch it all the time when he was small.

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RE: What if? - 8/13/2006 5:40:23 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Considering that many historians now believe that the population of the Americas was greater than that of Europe and vastly more civilized, I think the world would be a very interesting place.


Would these "historians" happen to be from the Howard Zinn school of revisionist history?

Vastly more civilized?  Flower wars for the purpose of taking captives to be used for human sacrifice in cultures that never invented either the wheel or writing don't strike me as "vastly more civilized."


LOL Harry. "Howard Zinn, he who never met a history book he wouldn't re-write"
 
I enjoy the what ifs too (good idea, Meatcleaver).  What if Hitler hadn't attacked the Soviets as soon as he did, and instead concentrated on Britain?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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RE: What if? - 8/13/2006 5:59:21 PM   
juliaoceania


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Status: offline 		What if one of the murder attempts on Hitler succeeded?

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Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: What if? - 8/13/2006 6:04:59 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

LOL Harry. "Howard Zinn, he who never met a history book he wouldn't re-write"
 
I enjoy the what ifs too (good idea, Meatcleaver).  What if Hitler hadn't attacked the Soviets as soon as he did, and instead concentrated on Britain?


Hmm, there's an interesting one.  While it would only have taken a little more time and effort to knock the British out of the Mediterranean, which, according to Churchill (who may not ALWAYS have been right, but was NEVER wrong, at least according to his memiors) would have led to his being thrown out of office and Britain coming to terms, it would have delayed Operation Barbarossa until at least 1942.

By June of 1941, the military purges were over and Stalin was rapidly rebuilding the Red Army.  By the spring of '42 the Soviet resistance to the invasion would have been considerably tougher.

How about if Mussolini hadn't invaded Greece and promptly gotten his butt kicked by the Brits there.  This would have negated Hitler's perceived need to invade the Balkans to save him, allowing him to invade Russia nearly two months earlier than he did.  The Red Army was even weaker and more demoralized by the purges.  As it was, starting in late June, the Russians best fighter, General Winter, caught the Germans in the outskirts of Leningrad and Moscow.

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RE: What if? - 8/13/2006 6:29:41 PM   
Level


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Status: offline 		Good points, Harry. General Winter was indeed a badass . Imagine the frustration of the Germans as they push so close to Moscow, within sight of the city, and are stopped "cold" in their tracks by the fierce elements and the even fiercer Soviets.
 
As for Mussolini and the Italians, well, they certainly had their way in Ethiopia .

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: What if? - 8/13/2006 6:49:08 PM   
LotusSong


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Good thread :)

What if nuclear power never was discovered?

What if Hitler never was born?


*emphasis added*

Then you'd have to find someone else to compare Bush to lol.


*evil laugh*

oh, there is always Cheney

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I'm not inflatable.


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RE: What if? - 8/13/2006 6:52:00 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


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Status: offline 		There's another good one.  What if Mussolini had never been born?  As Hitler's ally, he was one of the best things that ever happened to his enemies.

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RE: What if? - 8/13/2006 7:39:24 PM   
thomas49


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Status: offline 		Have you talked about your feelings with someone else?
It is often easier to deal with the real issues of the heart privately. However, this isn't always the best option. Talking about what's really going on in your mind and your heart gives you the opportunity to release any painful or negative emotions you didn't know you had bottled up. Trust me, there are almost always bottled up emotions you're unaware of. If you don't have anyone you feel you can trust to talk to, try talking to a group of people online. A great place to start       [email protected]

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RE: What if? - 8/13/2006 7:45:01 PM   
thomas49


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After any long-term relationship it may be tough to find the inner strength or desire to open your heart to love again. When a love interest comes knocking at your door, how do you know that old battle wounds and scars have been healed enough to let love in? Seeing as each person is completely individual, there really isn't a way to know exactly when the right time to begin a new relationship is. What may work for one person, may not work for another. Fortunately, there are a few key attributes that successful relationships have in common. If you find that you meet these, then it may be time to let love in. When you're ready to analyze your heart's state of affairs, take an honest look at the questions below to determine how ready you really are. and i need ur reply what u really think about it............Thomas   alone    and u can take a good look at my PROFILE i and my place am single hope to hear from you or if u like to meet me in yahoo here is my YAHOO ID: [email protected]        hope to hear from u.  REPLY
 
                                       Thomas

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RE: What if? - 8/13/2006 7:45:47 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thomas49

Have you talked about your feelings with someone else?
It is often easier to deal with the real issues of the heart privately. However, this isn't always the best option. Talking about what's really going on in your mind and your heart gives you the opportunity to release any painful or negative emotions you didn't know you had bottled up. Trust me, there are almost always bottled up emotions you're unaware of. If you don't have anyone you feel you can trust to talk to, try talking to a group of people online. A great place to start       [email protected]


thomas, you sound like an advertisement.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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