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RE: Terrorist Threat = Propaganda - 8/14/2006 8:11:35 AM

Alumbrado

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Projection:
The attribution of one's own attitudes, feelings, or desires to someone or something as a naive or unconscious defense against anxiety or guilt.

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RE: Terrorist Threat = Propaganda - 8/14/2006 8:14:03 AM

Chaingang

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
Hmm, now let me think. Our prime minister Tony Blair has sent our troops into a war that is not our own and our soldiers have died in it too. Now how expendable does that make our citizens?

Well, how grateful toward and trusting of "the poodle" do you feel? I assume not very.

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RE: Terrorist Threat = Propaganda - 8/14/2006 8:32:04 AM

missturbation

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I don't trustany politician but that wasn't the point i was trying to make. You implied that Britain was better off than the USA where being expendable is concerned.
Just out of interest you obviously feel very strongly about all this but do you actively voice your opinion or just in here?

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RE: Terrorist Threat = Propaganda - 8/14/2006 8:37:49 AM

Chaingang

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
I don't trustany politician but that wasn't the point i was trying to make. You implied that Britain was better off than the USA where being expendable is concerned.

No, that was not actually my point...I was surprised anyone would even bother to kowtow to authority at this point in time. My point was that one cannot trust these boneheads in leadership positions. Usually politicians are complete assholes, but I think Bush and Blair got in line twice for their asshole pills.

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
Just out of interest you obviously feel very strongly about all this but do you actively voice your opinion or just in here?

What's wrong with here? I have no idea of the readership numbers, but its entirely possible more people might read this here than if I walked with signs around my own neighborhood.

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RE: Terrorist Threat = Propaganda - 8/14/2006 8:41:27 AM

philosophy

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"What's wrong with here? I have no idea of the readership numbers, but its entirely possible more people might read this here than if I walked with signs around my own neighborhood."

just thought that was such a good point i'd cut and paste it so it can get read twice :)

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RE: Terrorist Threat = Propaganda - 8/14/2006 9:05:23 AM

LadyEllen

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I'd still like to know what choice we have but to trust what we are being told? I dont like or trust any of our wondrous leaders any more, but hey I'd rather them than BL and his cronies. Equally I dont think there is anything profitable in pondering conspiracies behind everything - sure they might have other agendas, but in the end there is nothing I can do about that until I vote the other lot in and get the same from them. Such pondering merely leads to high blood pressure and health problems. If the government really wanted to push through repressive counter terrorism laws, they could have achieved that much more easily by allowing (even causing) a few airliners to get blown up - no one would bother asking questions that way.

The disruption to air travel last week (and continuing this) is costing a fortune, not only to the commercial companies operating the services, but also in lost taxes and commercial activity which relies on air travel. Share prices are falling, making the UK less wealthy as a whole. It just seems a little OTT to suffer all this in order to get some legislation passed (and which legislation is going through the house right now I wonder, with Parliament on holiday?).

As to the war, its a distinct matter; that was likely a commercial decision based on the "special relationship" (the one where we are still paying for lend lease from 1940). I just hope Blair got a good deal. We are expendable for such a deal (its a cost/benefit analysis) and a few hundred soldiers dont count for much as usually theyre so fuxxed up when they come home that they wont gain employment and pay taxes anyway. In the meantime, there's greater profit to be had in cheap access to oil - the benefit outweighs the cost. Expending ordinary tax payers' lives is not profitable however, and not a good deal in terms of cost/benefit just to get a bill passed - neither is it a good deal to suffer the costs of this present disruption for the same end.
E

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RE: Terrorist Threat = Propaganda - 8/14/2006 10:53:01 AM

Alumbrado

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Because of course, one is supposed to respond to accusations of trusting authority, by trusting the poster who accuses them of being too trusting....

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RE: Terrorist Threat = Propaganda - 8/14/2006 11:11:12 AM

Chaingang

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Do your own research. There are several instances of both the U.S. and the British governments blowing shit out of all proportion during the last few years.

The video I cited the other day does a good job of showing how many times these assholes have cried wolf already.

"The Nexus of Politics and Terror"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az7yl-UnsQQ

Watch it, don't watch it. Whatever. You fear/hate/war-mongers will still be here ad infinitum blathering on about some matter of national security when the greatest threats to your way of life are how corporations have seized control of our governments and the fact that our leaders keep poking at the foreign policy hornet's nest with a stick trying to pad those same corporations' bottom lines. No one cares about the electorate - half of them are dupes and the other half are too busy rushing to the political center to offer an actual alternative to the party in power.

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RE: Terrorist Threat = Propaganda - 8/14/2006 11:28:32 AM

LadyEllen

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so, what do we do about it? The same things have been done by leaders for centuries - maybe the problem is that nowadays we know or at least suspect it more, and have the opportunity to talk about it more. But it doesnt make any difference, we have to live with it just the same, whichever party or prime minister or president we have. We can gripe, we can express our concern about standards in public life, maybe one day we will imprison the leaders of today, but we'll get the same exploitation and cynical manipulation just the same - even if we rose up and had a revolution.

"Animal Farm" by Orwell springs to mind.

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RE: Terrorist Threat = Propaganda - 8/14/2006 2:40:27 PM

Alumbrado

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quote:

Watch it, don't watch it. Whatever

Watching isn't the point.....not letting someone tell me what to think is the point.

If you are satisfied by replacing one piece of chicanery with another, that is your comfort zone, and your problem. And all the projection and straw labels against anyone who does think for themselves is very telling evidence that someone is as afraid of critical analysis as the Bush cabal, or Hezbollah, or any other power addict.

It is all about being blindly faithful to the 'winning' side for many, and demonizing valid criticism...but that is your game, not mine.
My game is being a gadfly...using the sting of logic, and the scalpel of sarcasm to poke holes in blind faith.
If people weren't so puffed up with the righteous indignation of the true believers, I wouldn't have such an easy target.

As far as corporations, I'm still not holding my breath waiting for you or anyone else to accept the ADM challenge I made. (I suspect, because it might disturb some cherished middle class illusions).

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 8/14/2006 2:41:18 PM >

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RE: Terrorist Threat = Propaganda - 8/14/2006 2:58:55 PM

missturbation

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
I don't trustany politician but that wasn't the point i was trying to make. You implied that Britain was better off than the USA where being expendable is concerned.

No, that was not actually my point...I was surprised anyone would even bother to kowtow to authority at this point in time. My point was that one cannot trust these boneheads in leadership positions. Usually politicians are complete assholes, but I think Bush and Blair got in line twice for their asshole pills.

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
Just out of interest you obviously feel very strongly about all this but do you actively voice your opinion or just in here?

What's wrong with here? I have no idea of the readership numbers, but its entirely possible more people might read this here than if I walked with signs around my own neighborhood.

I wasn't criticising i was just curious.

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RE: Terrorist Threat = Propaganda - 8/14/2006 3:22:59 PM

NorthernGent

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Fair enough, not all of the suspected terrorists needed passports to cause major disruption. However, when you consider it took US spokesmen 1 hour to decide this was the work of the "Islamo-facists" (whoever they are) then it is worrying to hear that there is a fair chance that the British authorities acted on the instruction of the US Government who, let's face it, aren't exactly well versed in the principles reason and innocent until proven guilty.

Regards.

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RE: Terrorist Threat = Propaganda - 8/14/2006 4:57:37 PM

Chaingang

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
My game is being a gadfly...using the sting of logic, and the scalpel of sarcasm to poke holes in blind faith.

Do you do this by yourself or in front of others?

What is the "ADM challenge"? I actually just searched that term on collarme and it appears once, in the post you just made. WTF?

< Message edited by Chaingang -- 8/14/2006 5:02:01 PM >

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RE: Terrorist Threat = Propaganda - 8/14/2006 6:39:37 PM

EnglishDomNW

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I think it's like the Pepsi challenge but without the burps.

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RE: Terrorist Threat = Propaganda - 8/14/2006 7:33:54 PM

Dauric

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Anyone really interested in Googling the politics of sugar should research 'Archer Daniels Midland', and follow the money...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/president/players/andreas.html

The ADM challenge. ADM is Archer Danield Midland, an agricultural products company.
The thread was "Castro"

$0.02

Dauric.

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RE: Terrorist Threat = Propaganda - 8/14/2006 8:52:47 PM

Chaingang

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dauric
ADM is Archer Daniel Midland, an agricultural products company.

I guess it's a good thing we have that also mentioned here in addition to the two other times I have MYSELF mentioned it elsewhere:

Chaingang: "Well, doesn't ADM (Archer Daniels Midland) - and with considerable support - claim that corn can be used to produce biodiesel?" Middle East Thread - 7/20/2006 3:24:00 AM
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=489665

Chaingang:"Archer Daniels Midland Company, corporate welfare..." Peak Oil Thread - 5/14/2006 9:37:06 AM
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=371450

It's good we have Alumbrado here to repeat things I have already said. But then, I can't think for myself, I need him to do it for me after the fact. It's not really been said until he says it I guess. Castro Thread - 8/3/2006 10:01:57 PM

::cough::cough::cough::

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RE: Terrorist Threat = Propaganda - 8/21/2006 1:57:05 PM

Chaingang

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang
What you have to consider is how this plays out in another few years. Remember Jose Padilla? The American "enemy combatant" held without due process of law. Well, once upon a time he was front page news too. Remember how he was building a "dirty bomb" and how everyone was scared shitless for fear of airborn plutonium? Here's the update:

---

None of the original allegations put forward by the U.S. government three years ago, the claims that held Padilla in the majority in solitary confinement throughout that period, were part of the indictment: "Attorney General Alberto Gonzales announced Padilla is being removed from military custody and charged with a series of crimes" and "There is no mention in the indictment of Padilla's alleged plot to use a dirty bomb in the United States. There is also no mention that Padilla ever planned to stage any attacks inside the country. And there is no direct mention of Al-Qaeda. Instead the indictment lays out a case involving five men who helped raise money and recruit volunteers in the 1990s to go overseas to countries including Chechnya, Bosnia, Somalia and Kosovo. Padilla, in fact, appears to play a minor role in the conspiracy. He is accused of going to a jihad training camp in Afghanistan but the indictment offers no evidence he ever engaged in terrorist activity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Padilla_(alleged_terrorist)

Well, here's the update on the update:

"Judge drops Padilla terror charge"
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/21/padilla.charge/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- A federal judge in Miami on Monday dismissed the lead terror count against Jose Padilla, the U.S. citizen once identified as a "dirty bomb" suspect and detained as an "enemy combatant."

-----

What I personally find interesting about the case is how the federal government attempted to and was partially successful in denying a U.S. citizen his constitutional rights. If the guy's a terrorist, AQ or homegrown is irrelevant to me, I say let's nail his balls to the wall. What I don't understand is why we have to deny any citizen their constitutional rights to achieve such an objective. Isn't there a means to do so in a perfectly legitimate and above board manner?

I get really tired of the bullshit antics of this administration. Do they have any legitimate claims they can make to support their idiotic, dangerous, and costly policies?

That's a rhetorical question for those not knowing. The answer is a resounding "No!"

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