RE: what have i done and how do i fix it?

RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (Full Version)

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carolsea -> RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (8/18/2006 8:52:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BrokenDoll If he has forgiven you then why is he ignoreing you?? that doesnt make sence to me. I agree. Forgiveness is the end of an infraction in my opinion. Once you are forgiven, the situation should be forgotten and the two should move on. My last dom, to whom I was collared, started punishing me before I even knew I'd done anything wrong. The punishment was withdrawing his affection and attention and all but ignoring me. After he finally told me what was going on and total chewed me out verbally (which asolutely crushed me and affected me more deeply than I found out he really cared) he told me I was forgiven but that things would not be back to normal until I had "proven" myself to him. And no, this sort of punishment was not negotiated and agreed upon in the beginning. It caused the end of the relationship and caused me months of grieving and trying to pull myself back together. It was a deal breaker for me. I would be questioning a lot of things, if I were you. But then, I'm not you, and only you can decide what to do about your situation.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (8/18/2006 8:59:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy Which guy LA.... the original patient training dominant, or the new uninvited critical stranger guy? Both are probably just taking advantage of her- but I was referring to the guy she is "under consideration" with. quote: Now it's amazing to see the original Dom potentially portrayed as a total dork and it sounds like girl101 knows way better herself. I agree, which is why she needs to decide whether she's going to obey or not here. I posted in my original reply that I could be wrong and he could be the dom of her dreams (however, doms of peoples dreams rarely forbid all questioning and only allow cyber contact, making the dork theory far more likely) quote: One big thing you need to do BEFORE implementing your choice... pursue some self improvement against gullibility. If you do not learn from your mistakes, guess who will soon be repeating them. Couldn't agree more with that.

julietsierra -> RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (8/18/2006 9:01:12 AM)
Learning to leave the driving to the person who is supposed to be driving is difficult. Learning to NOT put your dominant's business in the street is the first and best step toward not being influenced by others whose intentions might not have your best interests in mind. My Master is very much a "my way or the highway," arbitrary, no questions asked, you have the right to walk away, kind of man. If I were to post things about him that could be construed as negative, then I'd better darn well know where I stand in my own mind regarding how he operates. For me, anything less than his signature "my way or the highway" attitude would be less than what I want. Just because one dominant gives his or her submissive the latitude to ask questions, speak their mind, do handstands at noon, is NO guarantee that that's what your dominant will expect or allow. Learning to privately ask those whose mindsets are closest to your own will help you when you have questions regarding yourself. Asking people about the actions of your dominant are sure-fire ways to ensure that he will be angry with you and eventually choose to find someone who is more interested in following HIS ways, verses operating by concensus within the relationship. Unless all those dominants, and others are telling you they will be controlling you, then you make darn sure your head is where it needs to be and ignore the rest. Beyond that, keep your own counsel, maintain the attitude that you'll participate up until it becomes unhealthy for you to continue, and you'll be fine. juliet

LotusSong -> RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (8/18/2006 9:01:42 AM)
quote: There is nothing at this point that i know to say or do. i have no way of talking to Him except thru here/computer. Any suggestions, please? You have never even MET this guy? He probably is trying to think up something "domly" to do to you. Sweety.. there is NO Dom worth his salt that would take offence to honest questions. You took him off-guard is all. It's his problem. You may want to ponder this: http://www.rickross.com/warningsigns.html How do you know "Master" isn't some old married guy in a trailer in Pukipsie? (muttering..Damn.. there must be something in the water these days...)

NastyDaddy -> RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (8/18/2006 9:55:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong (post #24) ...You have never even MET this guy? ...(muttering..Damn.. there must be something in the water these days...) quote: ORIGINAL: girl101 (post #6) we have met as well. You were saying...

juliaoceania -> RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (8/18/2006 10:35:02 AM)
She isn't in his full collar, and if he can't take questions from one that he doesn't own, well that is his issue. As she is not his property, I personally do not consider it backstabbing to seek advice from an outside source unless she has specifically given that right up. It is my understanding that a consideration collar is not the same as a full collar.. why fully collar one that has given up all rights to you without such commitment? Why fully collar the cow when you can get the milk for free? He is only considering ownership of this sub, and as such I do not think that he has the right to tell her not to ask him questions unless she relinguishes this right. These are the reasons I think that consideration is a two way street. I would be considering not being involved with someone that did not think I should question their control over me when they do not own me. But that is just me and I could be wrong...

julietsierra -> RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (8/18/2006 10:55:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania She isn't in his full collar, and if he can't take questions from one that he doesn't own, well that is his issue. As she is not his property, I personally do not consider it backstabbing to seek advice from an outside source unless she has specifically given that right up. It is my understanding that a consideration collar is not the same as a full collar.. why fully collar one that has given up all rights to you without such commitment? Why fully collar the cow when you can get the milk for free? He is only considering ownership of this sub, and as such I do not think that he has the right to tell her not to ask him questions unless she relinguishes this right. These are the reasons I think that consideration is a two way street. I would be considering not being involved with someone that did not think I should question their control over me when they do not own me. But that is just me and I could be wrong... Actually, I think he DOES have the right to expect a certain amount of decorum from someone that he's considering for a collar. This, to me, would be a rather large step beyond dating, and during this time, he - and she - are looking at each other with more purposeful intent other than simply dating. He has the right to anticipate that she will honor the relationship they have and maintain the integrity he will be expecting of her as someone owned by him. To couch this in vanilla terms, would you look to outside people to question the relationship between you and your best friend? Or would you be loyal to that friend and keep your own counsel regarding what that person does - even if you don't necessarily approve? I don't know how other people handle this, but I don't share the conversations of my friends with others. It's none of their business. If I have concerns as to how that friendship is or is not growing, I take them to my friend. In this context, we're talking about something significantly more involved than even best friends. We're talking about a dominant and a submissive investing time with each other with the intent being a collar if all works out. If she needed to go to an outside source, like other things that are worked out in the realm of relationship building, this should have been discussed between the two of them prior to her taking his business to a public forum - or even discussing it with another dominant. There IS such a thing as respect involved, and perhaps I've just been raised with a different definition of that concept, but part of respect, to me, means operating in the manner you always intend on operating in - regardless of whether it's before or after the award of a collar. A collar is not a prize. It is an outside affirmation of a relationship that is already in place. It is a SYMBOL of what should already have been established. Again, in vanilla terms, if a couple has reached the point of engagement, there would be a significant expectation of behavior from the both of them by the both of them. And sharing the details of a private relationship with outside people, then bringing their opinions back to that private relationship would, I believe, be met with not a little concern and anger. Unless she brought up the possibility of discussion with others to him prior to doing so, he would have no rational expectation that she would be questioning what's happening. Unless he told her that it was ok to do so, I believe there would be the expectation of propriety and decorm in someone he was activily considering for collaring and the topic wouldn't have come up. There seems to be this large crowd of people - everywhere you look - that tends to think there is a before and after expectation of behavior. I, for one, am a strong proponent - for both the submissive and the dominant to behave in a manner that will convey their expectations across a spectrum of times in their life. And not presume there is a double standard of behavior between one time and the next. Either a person says what they mean and means what they say - or they don't. And if they don't, how does ANYONE believe them - regardless what they say and when they say it? Either a person has integrity, decorum and loyalty or they don't. Mistakes happen, but cloaking them in an "oh, it's all right as long as you're not collared" gives false expectations for behavior that lead to confusion in the long run. And either both people in a situation where someone is being considered for collaring need to take what they're doing seriously and behave in a manner that is consistent to their behavior across the continuum, or they really do need to give some thought as to what it is they want from a partner, a dominant, a submissive. Before undertaking a collar, both the dominant and submissive better be darn well aware of who they are and what they need. In that way, the poachers of this world will have less inroads, there will be less confusion over what's happening, people will be more apt to talk to each other rather than with people who don't have their best interests at heart and will be able to better make decisions regarding their own lives that they can stand by. Relationships of concensus - caring what the outside world thinks of your specific relationship and trying to please all of them rather than the person you either serve or own is pretty darn close to high school, and in my mind, D/s relationships are the relationships of adults. juliet

NastyDaddy -> RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (8/18/2006 11:14:48 AM)
What juliet so eloquently said... Potential contract addendum: "Regardless of collar status, progression or regression, the submissive must agree to keep our laundry on our clothesline"

juliaoceania -> RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (8/18/2006 11:14:50 AM)
Expecting decorum and telling someone they cannot question you about the relationship are two different things. Expecting someone not to talk to other people in private about your relationship is normal for all relationships.. including the ones I have with my friends. If I felt I had to go outside of my relationship for advice because I was not being heard/listened to in my relationship would be a reflection of troubles within the relationship. Power exchange is negotiated, even if the couple are "no limits" that had to be agreed upon. Consideration is less of a commitment than a full collar, and as such it is a time of considering for both parties whether to make the arrangement permanent based upon negotiated limits. I did not say I saw it as "dating".This is your interpretation of what I said. I do not talk to any other doms, and I am not under consideration, and we probably will never use that term between us,.. we have agreed to certain things and I honor these things.. collar or no collar. A collar is a symbol of commitment between two people, and I stick to what I said, I would be considering not accepting the full collar of one that would not communicate with me and then became so angry when I communicated with others... it would bode ill for my future with such a one, and I wouldn't serve such a one. You are the one that infers that she was being disloyal and looking to be with a new dominant. I took it as she was wondering what was going on with her dominant because he will not talk to her about their relationship. So she looks for insight outside it, and this other dom tells her his opinion which resonates with her own intuition, so she speaks out. I agree with the below: quote: Before undertaking a collar, both the dominant and submissive better be darn well aware of who they are and what they need. In that way, the poachers of this world will have less inroads, there will be less confusion over what's happening, people will be more apt to talk to each other rather than with people who don't have their best interests at heart and will be able to better make decisions regarding their own lives that they can stand by. Although I will say, the dom that "poached" wasn't poaching because this sub is not owned. You do not know what agreement they had prior, and to leave someone thirsting for information about what is going on with their relationship is a recipe for them to search for answers elsewhere. Otherwise I agree, they do not sound as if the dominant nor his submissive are anywhere near ready for a fll collar, since the consideration one didn't work

NastyDaddy -> RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (8/18/2006 11:23:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: girl101 *i am under consideration with a very loving, caring, and PATIENT Dom who has worked with me for a very long time. i do not understand all his training techinques but have learned as well not to question them. One of my problems is i read emails that others send to me and usually can deal, but i recently was swayed by a mans thoughts on how the Dom i am under consideration does things and that i am being played. Well , it got me to thinking negative and in haste wrote Sir an email and questioned Him on things and said things i should not have. Instead of unsending, i hit delete and couldnt return it back to myself. So i explained myself to Sir, i am very and always very honest. He is so angry at me. i have apologized over and over. He has forgiven me, He is determining my punishment. He is so short with me. It is like mental torture. There is nothing at this point that i know to say or do. i have no way of talking to Him except thru here/computer. Any suggestions, please? From this.... to this..... quote:* ORIGINAL: juliaoceania You are the one that infers that she was being disloyal and looking to be with a new dominant. *I took it as she was wondering what was going on with her dominant because he will not talk to her about their relationship. So she looks for insight outside it, and this other dom tells her his opinion which resonates with her own intuition, so she speaks out.* How the hell did you get there?

julietsierra -> RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (8/18/2006 11:53:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Expecting decorum and telling someone they cannot question you about the relationship are two different things. Expecting someone not to talk to other people in private about your relationship is normal for all relationships.. including the ones I have with my friends. If I felt I had to go outside of my relationship for advice because I was not being heard/listened to in my relationship would be a reflection of troubles within the relationship. Power exchange is negotiated, even if the couple are "no limits" that had to be agreed upon. Consideration is less of a commitment than a full collar, and as such it is a time of considering for both parties whether to make the arrangement permanent based upon negotiated limits. I did not say I saw it as "dating".This is your interpretation of what I said. I do not talk to any other doms, and I am not under consideration, and we probably will never use that term between us,.. we have agreed to certain things and I honor these things.. collar or no collar. A collar is a symbol of commitment between two people, and I stick to what I said, I would be considering not accepting the full collar of one that would not communicate with me and then became so angry when I communicated with others... it would bode ill for my future with such a one, and I wouldn't serve such a one. You are the one that infers that she was being disloyal and looking to be with a new dominant. I took it as she was wondering what was going on with her dominant because he will not talk to her about their relationship. So she looks for insight outside it, and this other dom tells her his opinion which resonates with her own intuition, so she speaks out. I agree with the below: quote: Before undertaking a collar, both the dominant and submissive better be darn well aware of who they are and what they need. In that way, the poachers of this world will have less inroads, there will be less confusion over what's happening, people will be more apt to talk to each other rather than with people who don't have their best interests at heart and will be able to better make decisions regarding their own lives that they can stand by. Although I will say, the dom that "poached" wasn't poaching because this sub is not owned. You do not know what agreement they had prior, and to leave someone thirsting for information about what is going on with their relationship is a recipe for them to search for answers elsewhere. Otherwise I agree, they do not sound as if the dominant nor his submissive are anywhere near ready for a fll collar, since the consideration one didn't work Oh, there's so much in this... First of all, going back to the OP's post, she said "i recently was swayed by a mans thoughts on how the Dom i am under consideration does things and that i am being played." My question then is just HOW did this man come to question what her dominant was doing if she didn't relate what was said to him first? Secondly, you need to reread what I said. Being under consideration for a collar is NOT the same as dating. It is, in my mind, significantly more. Last I heard, not a lot of people meet for the first or even second times presuming they are under consideration for a collar. That comes with time and getting to know each other. Whether you recognize this whole concept of "under consideration" in your life, is beside the point. The point is THEY did recognize his concept in their lives and as such, it set up a dynamic in which he and she were moving forward toward collaring. Just because a dominant doesn't SAY "I'm considering you for a collar" doesn't mean he's not doing that. And if he does tell the submissive that - then she's getting more information than necessary. But the situation remains. Thirdly, yes, I consider what was done to be disloyal. Not all dominants work from the place of their techniques being an open book to the submissive. She is the submissive. She is the one that needs to come to the conclusion whether she can actually submit or not. If he was not engaging in behavior that was unhealthy and harmful, then she needed to seriously consider whether she could accept what he was doing with her - even if she didn't understand. I would also surmise - because you're right, we can't know his intent from these posts - that he was hoping that she would be looking inside herself for her answers. I'm only guessing, but I'd place money on the idea that he was trying to get her to explore what SHE thought - not what other people thought. And finally, you're also right. in your assertion that leaving someone thirsting for information about what is going on in their relationship is a recipe for them to search for answers elsewhere. It is ALSO a recipe for seeing the mettle of the person that is being considered. It is ALSO the recipe for seeing just how dedicated she is to the entire concept of submission rather than simply a boyfriend who is kind of forceful. If the recipe comes to the fore that she searches elsewhere, then he has his answer, doesn't he? Presuming all dominants to act in ways that put the submissive in charge of how the relationship is developing can be kind of short-sighted. Being able to measure up to the expectations of a dominant who is definitely after D/s rather than a girlfriend who will listen to them is really difficult. Being in a developing relationship with someone who operates on a "need to know" basis with them judging the need to know is also really difficult. However, there is a LOT of growth in this process if one has the patience to get through it. There are a LOT of times when you feel like you're ready to throw in the towel. There are a LOT of times when you could SWEAR he's playing you, he's a mean person with ill intent, that he's just a bastard and a half. And in the end, if submission is your intent, and you have the strength and dedication enough to withstand the process, you cry - sometimes a lot - then, you recognize that you're not in danger, your life is not at stake, and there just MAY be something bigger and deeper in what's happening than you have ever imagined. And you submit. It's not rocket science, but it does take a courageous heart. juliet

lilnewbieseeking -> RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (8/18/2006 1:21:33 PM)
just be glad that He is talking to you again when i sent my email to the Master who was training me for a time He deleted hs yahoo ccount and disappeared so i have been seeking since then and have run into some problems

Fawne -> RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (8/18/2006 1:36:34 PM)
Personally, I can't deal with a Master who's ego won't allow a slave to ask polite, respectful questions. This isn't to say a slave should badger, sulk, demand etc. but why would a Master refuse to answer pertinant questions? After all: we are talking about possibly handing one's life over to the one. EDIT! Darn me! Maybe if I'd listen more carefully myself.. ;) OH! So, the OP girl101 didn't ask her Dominant his thoughts, but instead asked strange men what they thought? [sm=hewah.gif] not a good idea, to say the least. Best to you, OP - a lesson learned perhaps

juliaoceania -> RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (8/18/2006 2:12:47 PM)
quote: I do not understand all his training techinques but have learned as well not to question them. One of my problems is i read emails that others send to me and usually can deal, but i recently was swayed by a mans thoughts on how the Dom i am under consideration does things and that i am being played. Well , it got me to thinking negative and in haste wrote Sir an email and questioned Him on things and said things i should not have No where in this message does it talk about her wanting to be with another dom. Or being disloyal. I read the whole thing differently...this line... quote: I do not understand all his training techinques but have learned as well not to question them. What has taught her not to question? Here the theme is repeated quote: Well , it got me to thinking negative and in haste wrote Sir an email and questioned Him on things You focused on completely different things than I did. Only she can say whether feeling that she cannot question him led her to send the email and listen to an outside force. I really appreciate the way I am treated in my power dynamic, there are reasons why I may not behave the way he wants, and he needs to find out what those reasons are instead of cutting off communication with me and not allowing me to express my insecurities and questions. Everyone has their own needs and desires in their relationship, I am expressing my opinion as you expressed yours. I do not understand dom's that think they are above questioning. I would not want one that did, and if that crap came up before I took a full collar, I wouldn't take one..my opinion.. other people will vary, but you have no basis for attacking this sub based on the little she wrote and accusing her of all sorts of things when it doesn't appear she intended to be with another dominant at all.

juliaoceania -> RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (8/18/2006 2:38:20 PM)
If she cannot live under not knowing or not questioning, better she find out now then to accept a full collar of someone who operates in a way that she cannot live with. Better she realize it now then to act like she can just to get a full collar. Better to be honest with herself rather than live a lie. If she cannot accept this, then it doesn't make her a bad person, it means this is a bad dynamic for both of them.. why have a period of consideration at all? You brought up the dating thing, I do not know its source, I never said anything about dating. I consider consideration to be analogous to engagement if we were looking for a vanilla equivalent.. not that they are the same thing. I do not consider it dating. If I was engaged and there were things I could not deal with, well I would call that off too. Now this quote is where I differ strongly from you: quote: It is ALSO a recipe for seeing the mettle of the person that is being considered. It is ALSO the recipe for seeing just how dedicated she is to the entire concept of submission rather than simply a boyfriend who is kind of forceful. If the recipe comes to the fore that she searches elsewhere, then he has his answer, doesn't he? It is insinuating that those of us who choose to be in a different sort of dynamic than you are less of a submissive than you, that is just horseshit. There are different needs, but it is not up to you to define who is a submissive and who is with a forceful boyfriend. My Daddy doesn't need to be forceful at all with me, I submit anyways.. I do not define "true" dominant as one that cannot be questioned, there are dominants that are like this, but that doesn't make them good dominants, or bad dominants.. it might make them inappropriate dominants for some submissives. Again, better to find out before taking a full collar.

girl101 -> RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (8/18/2006 4:09:17 PM)
Let me clarify: i received an email from a Dom questioning the length of Sir's consideration. i informed this man that it is up to Sir when He will decide. The man wrote back and informed me how foolish i am and am being played with other things written in there as well. i then foolishy the next day wrote an email in haste to Sir, instead of hitting unsent, i hit delete and no way to return to me. i made a mistake, i made a big mistake for letting my thinking be swayed for all the time and energy that Sir has put in to my training. He has accepted my apology. i appreciate all the advice and comments. i really can go from here. i just wanted to kind of see what subs do to fix their mistakes. i now only can await for His decision. Thank you all.

NastyDaddy -> RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (8/18/2006 4:34:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania ...you have no basis for attacking this sub based on the little she wrote and accusing her of all sorts of things when it doesn't appear she intended to be with another dominant at all. Apparently you have your wires crossed julia, I never accused this sub of wanting to be with another dominant. I read the OP and responded to what she stated... and to what she stated that she did in error. I didn't attack her and accuse her of all sorts of things.... although I didn't candycoat my reply. You certainly did look at her words from a very different 'victim of a Dom' point of view and added context that was not there to begin with.... you took it completely on your terms and context, read what you wanted, and inserted what you wanted.... read the OP one more time.... as objectively as possible if you will. I looked at the OP as what she described... a 'victim of themselves', she never asked you how to fix her evil Master now did she? The sub admitted 'she fucked up' and her nest has been different, it's not been the same since 'she fucked up'. She seemed to not know how to handle her faux pas and it's results... then she finally confided in her Master... by informing him of why she sent the e-mail to him that she could not unsend. Perhaps if her e-mail had been unsent, then deleted, we could be doing other things... while she continued on and allowed the third party to negatively affect her relationship in other ways....... all the while never confiding in her own Master...... only confiding in strangers?

DanielsHeart -> RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (8/18/2006 5:33:21 PM)
The mistake you made is in talking to a third person. The way you fix it...you don't do it again. Punishment is punishment. Accept it gratefully, learn from it, or move on. Are you sure this Man is the right man for you? Communication is important. Daniel's heart

julietsierra -> RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (8/18/2006 6:49:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I do not define "true" dominant as one that cannot be questioned, *there are dominants that are like this, but* *that doesn't make them good dominants, or bad dominants.. it might make them inappropriate dominants for some submissives*. Again, better to find out before taking a full collar. ROFL...so now you agree with me - except not for the same reasons. That works. Have a good evening. juliet

diamonddreamlove -> RE: what have i done and how do i fix it? (8/19/2006 12:11:27 AM)
To question a Dom can get a sub into deep trouble lol as you now know but at the same time a good discussion can also come out of it. I believe it is the way one approaches the Dom and i am also wondering if being impulsive is part of the problem as well as being impatient. I must admit it does not sound as if you are forgiven since that implies the situation is finished. And silence can be used as punishment. Had a Master that used that technique once upon a time, note i said had One not have One. I don't particulary want One that will not discuss my mistakes with me. That is my preference and i hold onto that right while seeking a ltr. On the other hand no Dom must accept my preference and in such a case the search continues. I am curious however why if you are under consideration you would have the need to discuss His training techniques with Another unless you have specific concerns, which again would have been better addressed with Him than to bring in a third party.

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