RE: The Bible and Common Sense (Full Version)

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anthrosub -> RE: The Bible and Common Sense (8/20/2006 10:41:59 AM)

Sorry, I actually did get your point about how Christianity has become popular through music but got overly focused on what I wanted to say in reply.
 
I have the song, "In Your Eyes" (it's one of my favorites).  I was fortunate to buy an extended version of it on a 12" single back in the late 80's.  Recently, I converted it to digital (not MP3) and burned it to CD.
 
You're certainly correct in how each song's meaning can be interpreted as to who the singer is referring to.  People often talk about their love of God in the same way they do about their partner.
 
anthrosub




mnottertail -> RE: The Bible and Common Sense (8/20/2006 10:48:23 AM)

Whhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaat a friend we have in Jesus;
Christ Almighty what a pal.......................


one of my favorites....
Ron




SavageFaerie -> RE: The Bible and Common Sense (8/20/2006 1:08:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

I really do believe Christianity could improve its image amongst the intellectual community if the leaders would just come out once and for all and admit the stuff about the creation is a myth.  It's really so transparent in this day and age.
 


Now you have made some very intelligent points anthrosub.  But how can you give anyone concrete Proof that the bible is a myth?  And if you cant give CONCRETE proof why in the world should we take the above statement and change our individual way of thinking.

To you it may well be transparent. I personally think the bible is still up to an individual's own brain to sum up what they do think.  I think many of the words of the bible is factual, I also think alot of it is as quoted from the bible a parable. I will even concede that some of it just makes no sense, but perhaps that is because as stories are told by word of mouth generation to generation things do change.  Hence the discussion of evolution.

With that I am going to take my little agoraphobic self and brave the world and go to a Chinese buffet. My God is helping me do this to better myself. Plus I deserve it after doing some pretty heavy yard work today. I can honestly say I am proud of myself

I will check back later. I am glad I finally jumped headfirst into this topic of discussion. It has made this sluggy brain think and remember.

But I digress.....back to the topic at hand.




SavageFaerie -> RE: The Bible and Common Sense (8/20/2006 1:10:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Whhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaat a friend we have in Jesus;
Christ Almighty what a pal.....................



Ron your just plain adorable sometimes.
But dont let that go to your head.




SavageFaerie -> RE: The Bible and Common Sense (8/20/2006 1:16:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

Sorry, I actually did get your point about how Christianity has become popular through music but got overly focused on what I wanted to say in reply.
 
I have the song, "In Your Eyes" (it's one of my favorites).  I was fortunate to buy an extended version of it on a 12" single back in the late 80's.  Recently, I converted it to digital (not MP3) and burned it to CD.
 
You're certainly correct in how each song's meaning can be interpreted as to who the singer is referring to.  People often talk about their love of God in the same way they do about their partner.
 
anthrosub


LOL well I thought as much. I pretty much knew that "In Your Eyes" would get you back to the discussion.  I happen to think that song can be used in just about any situation, as it has such adaptability for the 'moment'

And on the second paragraph, perhaps, just perhaps it is because there is God in everyone.
I personally think there is in all religions, oh however we believe.

I can also understand atheist and agnostics. Go figure that one out.  Ultimately it come down to this  "To each their own".




Level -> RE: The Bible and Common Sense (8/20/2006 1:55:54 PM)

quote:

Anthro wrote:
 
The whole idea behind the title of this thread is to say, "If the Bible is the truth, then let's look at what it's saying."
 

 
First, thanks Anthro for getting the ball rolling; your posts are consistently intelligent and well done.
 
I will say that there is truth in the Bible, moreso than the Bible is truth, and hope no one else has said it already. As you also said, many of us dig through the texts of sometimes many books, trying to find that which works for us, which rings the bell as truth or wisdom.
 
I don't believe in much of the Bible. Look through it and wherever you find evidence of love, kindness, truth, and courage, and you'll have found the parts that matter, at least for me.




Level -> RE: The Bible and Common Sense (8/20/2006 2:11:11 PM)

quote:

Gent wrote:

For some this will seem like missing the big picture but we have a whole raft of issues to sort out on this planet before we go worrying about whether or not there is a creator. Surely, we should be concerning ourselves with the reality we can see going on around us?


Some religious people not only are dedicated to sorting out this world's issues, but are called/driven/whatever by their religion to do so.
 
quote:

Gent wrote:

On a personal level it is the lack of progression that I find hard to stomach. The strict adherence to views on abortion, homsexuality, divorce etc. It is hard to reconcile the supposed Christian value of charity with the complete disregard for equal rights when it comes to sexual persuasion. Why would anyone want to adhere to a belief system that dances to a different tune depending on the day?



Your unhappiness with the "lack of progression" is understandable; for what it's worth, though, there are those who have progressed, and are continuing to do so. Bishop John Shelby Spong springs to mind, and there are others. They do not accept the "magic" parts of the Bible, they work to bring scientific discoveries into people's lives, and they relentlessly try to extend love, compassion, and understanding to all, irregardless of race, creed, gender, or sexuality. If only there were more of them.




missturbation -> RE: The Bible and Common Sense (8/20/2006 2:22:57 PM)

I have nothing to say i just wanted to be beneath level [:D]




Level -> RE: The Bible and Common Sense (8/20/2006 2:25:23 PM)

*adopts best Yul Brynner voice*
 
So let it be written....... so let it be done. [:-]
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

I have nothing to say i just wanted to be beneath level [:D]




NorthernGent -> RE: The Bible and Common Sense (8/20/2006 2:27:47 PM)

First paragraph - I wouldn't dispute that. Either there aren't enough of them or the church doesn't wield enough to power to make it happen.

Second paragraph - my comment was aimed at the church as an institution rather than dissident elements who would rather see the church tow a different line. The same applies in the UK - the official church line is not in sync with a progressive society (even though there are dissenters who would rather see a different course).

Regards 




missturbation -> RE: The Bible and Common Sense (8/20/2006 2:33:54 PM)

If i'm not mistaken we have gay vicars.
Divorce is pretty much accepted all over and abortion well its not exactly as frowned on as it used to be.




NorthernGent -> RE: The Bible and Common Sense (8/20/2006 2:42:30 PM)

I'll give you an example of what I mean, Popeye.

The Anglican Church has branches/sects in various parts of the world. The African arm holds a lot of sway due to the size of the congregation over there. An American vicar is gay (Gene forget the surname) and there was almost a 50/50 split in the English and North American Anglican churches to recognise gay rights on various levels (one of the issues was personal to the American vicar - can't remember what it was now). Anyway, the head of the Anglican Church (The Archbishop of Canterbury) implied that he and his closest sub-ordinates favoured the position of the American gay vicar. Basically, they understood that equal rights regardless of any persuasion is simply a basic human right. The decision went against the American vicar because the large African congregation did not support the gay American vicar and it was feared this would lead to a split that would reduce the power of the Anglican Church.

The conclusion is that the main consideration of the church is their institution, their power and they will cling to that at the expense of human rights and building a progressive society. This is the flaw in the so-called church philosophy of charity, fairness etc.

Regards




meatcleaver -> RE: The Bible and Common Sense (8/20/2006 2:46:31 PM)

The church is an institution with a basis of belief. The argument about human rights is a load of bollocks. The church isn't denying anyone's right to be gay, what it is saying is that you can't be gay and a bishop. If you don't like that, then leave the church, simple. This has nothing to do with human rights but a matter of religious belief and religious freedom. You don't like the rules of the club, start you own club.




NorthernGent -> RE: The Bible and Common Sense (8/20/2006 2:56:03 PM)

By saying you can't be gay and a member of their institution what example are they setting for their congregation? Helping to build a progressive society?




LTRsubNW -> RE: The Bible and Common Sense (8/20/2006 3:10:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: captiveplatypus

why do y'alls posts have to be so long?  My miniscule attention span has difficulty getting involved in these fun topics!


That's ok...I didn't read the whole thing either, but I've asked several associates to put together the fine points for both of us to consider at a later date.

We should have a double spaced report by 8:00.




LTRsubNW -> RE: The Bible and Common Sense (8/20/2006 3:12:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

According to one of the 4 year olds in my church, Noah got all the animals on the ark with a shoe horn and a lot of praying that no one fell overboard when he got them all stufed in.

Just thought Id share

DV


(See, actually, I was going to say that but I thought nobody would believe me)




Daddy4UdderSlut -> RE: The Bible and Common Sense (8/20/2006 3:23:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
By saying you can't be gay and a member of their institution what example are they setting for their congregation? Helping to build a progressive society?

As far as example and progressive society - look at the Catholic Church, they will not ordain women as priests - the Vatican is not exactly at the vanguard of equality.




Daddy4UdderSlut -> RE: The Bible and Common Sense (8/20/2006 3:32:19 PM)

Speaking of which, from Morning Edition, August 17, 2006 ...
quote:


More than a dozen Roman Catholic women in the U.S. who claim to have been ordained as priests during a ceremony on July 31 are now facing the threat of ex-communication and public condemnation. Critics say the women are not only breaking church law, they're undermining the women's movement in the church.  

So it looks like they aim to teach those "uppity women" a thing or two... [&:] 




anthrosub -> RE: The Bible and Common Sense (8/20/2006 4:08:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SavageFaerie
And on the second paragraph, perhaps, just perhaps it is because there is God in everyone.
I personally think there is in all religions, oh however we believe.

I can also understand atheist and agnostics. Go figure that one out.  Ultimately it come down to this  "To each their own".


Personally, I think God is "in" everyone.  But when reading that sentence you have to be careful with how we use words.  What I'm really saying is God is in us just as much as in everything else.  But that becomes a problem because it makes the distinction between God and the universe irrelevant.  Saying God is everything is has no more meaning than saying, "Everything is pointing up."
 
I think if you look closely, it's not hard to see that religious people see God as a source for meaning.  People want an answer to, "What's the point of all this?"  But for some obscure reason, people are not satisfied with being the source of meaning.  They have to externalize it so they can point to something outside themselves.
 
I can't say if this was the driving force in the early history of humanity but I do think this is a psychological trait people have exhibited in the latter part of history.  I tend to think the origins of religion grew out of myths from oral stories that were passed on from generation to generation long ago.  Perhaps the early cultures had someone whose role was like a Shaman or Holy person and they were the keeper of the stories and used them to answer questions posed by the group or tribe.
 
Once agriculture was developed and people began to settle down and organize, it seems completely feasible that the spiritual leaders would also find not only the need but an opportunity to codify their myths and organize their religion.  Before agriculture and settlements existed, religion had to be portable.  But with settlements, villages, and eventually towns and cities...it would now be possible to build a place of worship.
 
This would be happening at the same time that governments were being developed and as I've mentioned before, the leaders would need authority and where better to get it than from the religious leadership.  So to me, this would help explain how God became externalized in the history of humanity.  The "evidence" for it is in the understanding we have of ancient cultures as revealed through archeology.
 
Once the leaders realized the power they controlled, it should be no surprise they would take steps to keep it.  Not until science came on the scene did the power of religion begin to lose its grip on society as a political force.  What we've been seeing since about 500 years ago is the continued reduction of that power and it's not over yet.  But for people who turn to religion for simple comfort and the values it professes (perhaps like yourself), the political struggle is almost irrelevant.
 
To me, God, truth, and the unknown are all synonyms.  We all explore it in our own way.  To the extent we have similar experiences we are in agreement and for most, the parts that are different are seen as an opportunity to enrich each other's understanding.  But for a minority of fanatics (or purists), this is simply unacceptable which is unfortunate.
 
anthrosub




SavageFaerie -> RE: The Bible and Common Sense (8/20/2006 4:16:33 PM)

Well I know for a fact there is progression in Texas

In these here parts we have what is called Cowboy Church.
You heard it right, it is for all those that think and drink cowboy.
Not the Urban Cowboy.
And they teach cowboy country style, I wouldn't mind visiting one to see what kind of take they have on things.  Makes me wonder if their picture of Jesus has a cowboy hat on.

I wont even touch on the Catholic or similar type churches and their interpretation of the Bible because I prefer not to get all  'fired' up, I can only handle a roasting every so often, and I still have singed butt hairs.




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