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truth or lie? - 8/19/2006 5:19:56 PM   
crouchingtigress


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has anyone seen this???????????????????????????

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5946593973848835726&hl=en
 
what do you all think? should i believe it?

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RE: truth or lie? - 8/19/2006 5:27:14 PM   
crouchingtigress


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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5946593973848835726&hl=en

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RE: truth or lie? - 8/19/2006 5:35:20 PM   
captiveplatypus


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while I don't know about the reliability of this video, this is definately a suspicion I have strongly had ever since we decided to attack Iraq as a seeming result of 9/11, which made no sense.

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RE: truth or lie? - 8/19/2006 5:40:31 PM   
crouchingtigress


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yeah none of that sits well with me.....and it was funny all the points they made i realised i asked myself those questions and imeditaly dismissed them...like the hole in th penatogon....i thought it looked like a missle, but i never said anything, instead i just got cought up in the drama....

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RE: truth or lie? - 8/19/2006 5:53:28 PM   
Daddy4UdderSlut


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I am not, repeat *not* a supporter of our current administration (just see my posts on the "Left responsible for the Iraq invasion" thread....

But, I just find it inconceivable that our leadership would stage such a devastating  attack on their own fellow citizens.  Inconceivable.  The "evidence" here in the film seems to be purely circumstantial, for one thing.  For a second thing, my own rule of thumb is to go with the most obvious or conventional explanation for events, rather than conspiracy theories, unless there is any outstanding evidence to cast doubt on the conventional explanation.  I don't beleive there is any such outstanding evidence here.

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RE: truth or lie? - 8/19/2006 7:04:50 PM   
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There was no conspiracy on behalf of our government to stage 9/11. This stuff is kept alive by the "I was abducted by aliens" type crowd, partially because they get a thrill out of it, partially because they hate Bush.
 
We have enough real problems in this country without making up things.

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RE: truth or lie? - 8/19/2006 7:09:53 PM   
WyrdRich


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       Easy rule of thumb for most conspiracy theories.  Ask yourself if the players are really THAT smart, or if they are actually that stupid.  Mostly, stupid wins.

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RE: truth or lie? - 8/19/2006 7:19:37 PM   
crouchingtigress


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how much of it did you watch?

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RE: truth or lie? - 8/19/2006 7:24:32 PM   
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I've watched most of it, ct, and seen the claims it makes.
 
From USA Today:

Most of what the film alleges is refuted by the evidence at hand. Anything not answered definitively by the government is interpreted by the film as proof of a coverup.
 
Among the assertions in Loose Change is that a missile hit the Pentagon even though eyewitnesses saw the jet, numerous pieces of wreckage were found including the flight recorder, and those on the flight and in its path at the Pentagon are dead.
 
There is also the claim that because jet fuel burns at up to 1,500 degrees and steel melts at 2,750 degrees, the World Trade Center's infrastructure could not have been brought down by the airliners. However, as reported by the Journal of the Minerals, Metals and Materials Society, steel loses 50% of its strength at 1,200 degrees, enough for a failure.
 
"The only thing they (the filmmakers) seem to have gotten right about the Sept. 11 attacks is the date when they occurred," says Debra Burlingame, whose brother was the pilot of American Flight 77 that crashed into the Pentagon.
 
"They aren't truth-tellers looking to save the world," she says. "They're con artists hoping to sucker conspiracy-theory paranoids or anti-government malcontents into shelling out their hard-earned dollars."

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RE: truth or lie? - 8/19/2006 7:40:01 PM   
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9/11: Debunking the Myths

From Popular Mechanics

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1&c=y

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RE: truth or lie? - 8/19/2006 8:13:50 PM   
LotusSong


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I no longer doubt anything. It would be easy enough to verify if one had the time and resources.

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RE: truth or lie? - 8/19/2006 8:14:07 PM   
popeye1250


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Level, yes, their tin foil hats must be a little tight.

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RE: truth or lie? - 8/19/2006 8:21:41 PM   
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Link to ScrewLooseChange, a set of 3 MySpace videos (scroll down to the left where it says "movies"):

http://www.myspace.com/screwloosechange

Even Maddox, at Thebestpageintheuniverse site thinks Loose Change is hooey:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons





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RE: truth or lie? - 8/19/2006 11:43:38 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddy4UdderSlut
I just find it inconceivable that our leadership would stage such a devastating  attack on their own fellow citizens.  Inconceivable.

According to seeks it is inconceivable that evolution occurred. Aren't BIG LIES more successful than small lies? Good con artists and smart men know that.
Does anyone truly believe that those in power are stupid? They may pretend to be stupid, but that is what smart con artists do.

< Message edited by Rule -- 8/19/2006 11:44:28 PM >

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RE: truth or lie? - 8/19/2006 11:55:57 PM   
captiveplatypus


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All I know is...the majority of us voted for Bush twice... (well, once actually.  And even possibly neither times.)  Either we got suckered twice or we are pretty screwed.  At this point I'm open to any explanation.  But like I said, I wasn't going to suggest that video was reliable, I don't have the time to even watch it all.  I'm not a stranger to thinking it's possible, though.

Edit: and I wouldn't put it past them.  They've already proven to me they're capable of killing thousands of innocent people without what I consider sufficient reason.

< Message edited by captiveplatypus -- 8/19/2006 11:58:04 PM >

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RE: truth or lie? - 8/20/2006 12:10:19 AM   
Kedicat


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Long explanation...
From what I have seen, and I have investigated a whole lot of stuff. 9/11 was not in My opinion specifically organized by any US intelligence agencies or other US entities.
However. If you go to Project for the new american century website and download ( if it is still there ) Rebuilding Americas Defences ( I think it is ). You will see that the document that is signed of on by numerous high ranking neocons in the Bush administration, is basically a blueprint for current events. This document was written by these folks years before 9/11.
A very telling line in the document is that to put into action their plans ( the current actions being done ) they need "another Pearl Harbour" the words they use. The 9/11 comission itself acknowledged that there was evidence available to possibly avert 9/11. Crashing airliners into things had been done before so it was not at all unimaginable. It was in fact a CIA and NSA acknowledged scenario.

The conspiracy that I can ascribe to is one of letting it happen to put into play political idealogical objectives. At first I still doubted that. But what happened since has solidified My belief that it is being used for that purpose and was actually allowed to transpire.

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RE: truth or lie? - 8/20/2006 12:16:01 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: captiveplatypus

All I know is...the majority of us voted for Bush twice...

The lie is bigger than Bush alone. We may believe that we may choose, but the only choices we get is between two cooperating con artists.
 
The larger the group of cooperating con artists, the more likely that no one suspects a con. Ever watch the movie 'The Sting'?

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RE: truth or lie? - 8/20/2006 1:10:38 AM   
captiveplatypus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: captiveplatypus

All I know is...the majority of us voted for Bush twice...

The lie is bigger than Bush alone. We may believe that we may choose, but the only choices we get is between two cooperating con artists.
 
The larger the group of cooperating con artists, the more likely that no one suspects a con. Ever watch the movie 'The Sting'?


yes I noticed.  And no, I haven't seen that movie.

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RE: truth or lie? - 8/20/2006 2:44:25 AM   
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*hears theme music from X-Files and Twilight Zone playing*
 
If people want something to worry about, I humbly suggest taking a look at what is going to happen when Social Security and Medicare go belly up, and possibly take the entire US economy with them. It will affect most, if not all, other nations as well. Do you have kids? Grandkids? Do you love them? Then this needs to be dealt with. Go read Peter G. Peterson's Running On Empty.

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: truth or lie? - 8/20/2006 4:18:38 AM   
Rule


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Deviating from the subject is an improper way to argue.

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