RE: People should not have to work for a living. (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: People should not have to work for a living. (8/22/2006 11:31:36 AM)

My Daddy's union does not have any outside representatives, he maybe home early today because of a strike in LA coincidentally..smiles.. he can answer this himself. I have not read his union bylaws yet (I am supposed to and probably should be doing that rather than arguing this..lol).

I do not consider this system a democracy. It is a republic, not much democracy unless you are looking at the state and local levels.


The caveman had more democracy than we do most likely if we look at other hunter/gatherer societies around the world...smiles

The unions did not "force" anyone to move overseas, seeing that most jobs that went there were not union at all, there are several geographic economic models one can look at to explain this.. I refer you to when we used coal to power factories and especially to make steel, some places were superior to others for this endeavor economically speaking because reductive industries are best to situate near resources. This is not an issue anymore, hence the Rust Belt in the USA. If it is cheaper to move, they will do it. You want your factory where you have to pay the least wages, and you want to sell your product to the richest consumers.. this concept has been this way forever! The thing is that in times past there was a limit on this, namely if you did not pay your workers a living wage, well they couldn't buy your product.


We used child labor and slave labor here arguing similiar things, it is immoral and it is wrong. China is just one example, this is happening in the developing world everywhere. Not to mention the coups in South America that the USA has instigated to keep an economic thumb on this hemisphere. I could go on and on and on about forcing markets to be "open" and pressuring people to enter wage markets from their traditional lifeways, but this sort of knowledge is best sought on your own, and is contained in a multitude of academic journals and books that I have had the opportunity to read because of my discipline. It is hard to communicate this knowledge in a forum in a cohesive way.




Rule -> RE: People should not have to work for a living. (8/22/2006 11:32:33 AM)

My observations lead me to conclude that all people want to work and be useful, unless they are ill. There is a spectrum of ardour, though, measured only in one dimension. When looked at in this single dimension, one might conclude that someone works hardly at all, whereas in fact such a person may work very hard in a non-measurable way. The obvious example is the house wife: does not earn a wage, so she must be a lazy bitch. Another example is the artist or writer: spends years doing nothing, earning no money, so must be a lazy bastard. Then, out of the blue: a master piece.




LaTigresse -> RE: People should not have to work for a living. (8/22/2006 11:35:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Tigresse, $27 per hour isn't a lot of money these days.


That depends on where you live.




gooddogbenji -> RE: People should not have to work for a living. (8/22/2006 11:35:59 AM)

Julia,

Agree to disagree?

Yours,


benji




juliaoceania -> RE: People should not have to work for a living. (8/22/2006 11:37:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

Julia,

Agree to disagree?

Yours,


benji


Are you threatening me with a 2x4...smiles.. of course we can disagree, good people do so all the time, and good dogs too...




meatcleaver -> RE: People should not have to work for a living. (8/22/2006 12:28:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

Good example of someone eating my cookies.

Yours,

benji


If I am, your cookies work. I work the best part of three-four hours a day at something I find really enjoyable and have more than enough money for my needs and pay for two children. If I had a proper job and worked for a living, I wouldn't bein such a good position.




Emperor1956 -> RE: People should not have to work for a living. (8/22/2006 1:48:17 PM)

quote:

meatcleaver:
quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

Good example of someone eating my cookies.

Yours,

benji



If I am, your cookies work. I work the best part of three-four hours a day at something I find really enjoyable and have more than enough money for my needs and pay for two children. If I had a proper job and worked for a living, I wouldn't bein such a good position.


HEY, its great to see that the meth lab is working out for you, meat!

E.




enigmabrat -> RE: People should not have to work for a living. (8/22/2006 1:51:21 PM)

LOL Zens mind must be a fun place to visit




Sunshine119 -> RE: People should not have to work for a living. (8/22/2006 6:07:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

My observations lead me to conclude that all people want to work and be useful, unless they are ill. There is a spectrum of ardour, though, measured only in one dimension. When looked at in this single dimension, one might conclude that someone works hardly at all, whereas in fact such a person may work very hard in a non-measurable way. The obvious example is the house wife: does not earn a wage, so she must be a lazy bitch. Another example is the artist or writer: spends years doing nothing, earning no money, so must be a lazy bastard. Then, out of the blue: a master piece.


Consequently, in our society, we are only worth as much as we currently earn.  Now, I make an upper middle class salary, however, I fully appreciate the fact that I would be totally f**ked over if the woman who made the coffee at my local convenience store didn't get up earlier than me and work in a more physical fashion than I do in order for it to be ready when I so desperately need it!  However...she is paid at only a fraction of what I make.  Is that fair?

If all jobs paid the same, then all labor would be valued equally.  I would still do my job, because I love what I do.    She might still do her job because she might be unable to do more mentally challenging work, besides, she loves to socialize with her customers, which gives her joy.  The artist would get to enrich the world with their talents and when all positions are paid the same, we would all start seeing each other very differently.

If one would like to argue that brainpower or special talents should entitle them to more pay, I would like to see how they would try and construct that argument.  What did they do to gain their own intellegence?  Nothing.  Most likely it is nothing more than genetics that caused that.  Education?  Hmmm.....once again, even if they took out a ton of student loans, they were in a position to do that, whereas many are not.  Talents are probably genetic as well.

So when you reduce all the factors, there is nothing that any of us have done to totally, absolutely entitle us to obscene pay.  Everything we have, has been passed down to us in one fashion or another.  If people realized that ALL labor is valuable, then everyone could take pride in what he/she did.  For those of you who would argue that the "experiment" of socialism has failed, I would argue that it hasn't taken place yet.

Work gives meaning to our lives.  It causes us to have a healthy self-esteem and is an excellent way of developing as part of the larger social structure.  We should have to work. This may consist of raising healthy children (in mind and body), in creating jobs for others, creating art (music/visual) or in providing a service.  But we shouldn't hate the work we do because it doesn't measure up to what society's perception of a "good job" is.

Sunshine
the rabid socialist




WhipTheHip -> RE: People should not have to work for a living. (8/23/2006 6:15:29 AM)

I thought this was my thread!  What happened to the thread I created, "Nobody should have to work for a living.  Discuss"?




WhipTheHip -> RE: People should not have to work for a living. (8/23/2006 7:40:09 AM)

I posted a tread with this subject like as a parody of other threads.




zenofeller -> RE: People should not have to work for a living. (8/23/2006 7:44:26 AM)

oh get off it already, you started a party the day after the party was finished.

+ we don't like you.




darkinshadows -> RE: People should not have to work for a living. (8/23/2006 8:35:11 AM)

Its difficult and not particularly helpful to have threads with similar names going at the same time.
Zenos' is a parody - of sorts (in his own special and unique way) - and was started first.
The mods will just keep the most recent and move the others along.
 
In CM - the mods are the gods of their own religion.  They say what stays - and what goes.  If you worship here, you need to accept the tenants as they stand.  Either that, or be banished to the hell that is ALT.com...[:'(]
 
Peace and Rapture




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