Reincarnation yay or nay? (Full Version)

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sharainks -> Reincarnation yay or nay? (8/22/2006 6:45:55 PM)

Do you believe that at least some of us running around on this earth have been running around down here before, as people? 

I do, always have, always will. 




cuddleheart50 -> RE: Reincarnation yay or nay? (8/22/2006 6:46:53 PM)

nope, I dont believe in it.




MasterRenegade77 -> RE: Reincarnation yay or nay? (8/22/2006 7:28:08 PM)

Yes I believe it, right now we're in the final go round on 3rd density earth!!!




sleazybutterfly -> RE: Reincarnation yay or nay? (8/22/2006 7:46:21 PM)

I honestly don't know.  Sometimes it makes a lot of sense, then others not at all.  I have studied it a lot though, and parts of it I find very interesting, I will say that much.  It does conflict with my Faith though, that is where my biggest issues lay.
 
~Butterfly




Lashra -> RE: Reincarnation yay or nay? (8/22/2006 7:48:15 PM)

Definitely a yes as natural recycles. No I don't mean Mother nature puts us in plastic bins out on the curb[;)]

~Lashra




LotusSong -> RE: Reincarnation yay or nay? (8/22/2006 8:19:57 PM)

Absolutely




Littlepita -> RE: Reincarnation yay or nay? (8/22/2006 8:28:48 PM)

Nope




SavageFaerie -> RE: Reincarnation yay or nay? (8/22/2006 8:31:00 PM)

A total yes for me.  I could tell stories.




Estring -> RE: Reincarnation yay or nay? (8/23/2006 12:15:24 AM)

Ask me again in the next life.[;)]




Rule -> RE: Reincarnation yay or nay? (8/23/2006 1:22:29 AM)

I have "died" in this life and yet I "live". I have found some historical people who are mentally identical to me - very rare. Mythology is very clear about reïncarnation: Yes. Then there are very small children who infrequently make odd references to a past life before they forget about such a life. As Lashra says: the universe recycles. Occasionally, though, the God of the Dead may click on the delete button. Egyptian funeral rites and some theologies warn that a person/soul will/may become lost after death. 




enigmabrat -> RE: Reincarnation yay or nay? (8/23/2006 2:20:45 AM)

My brother a Scientist (yes he has a degree and everthing) explained it this we. We as people if nothing els are energy enery can not be created or distroyed there for there is no way we could ever end!




BrutalAntipathy -> RE: Reincarnation yay or nay? (8/23/2006 2:25:07 AM)

Energy being neither created or destroyed is one of the laws of thermodynamics. But another aspect of thermodynamics is that entropy increases, making the avaliable energy less useful to do anything. When you snuff the flame out on a candle, the energy from the flame does not cease to be, but it does dissipate into a less useful form.
 
 




Rule -> RE: Reincarnation yay or nay? (8/23/2006 2:34:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: enigmabrat

My brother a Scientist (yes he has a degree and everthing) explained it this we. We as people if nothing els are energy enery can not be created or distroyed there for there is no way we could ever end!

Our corporeal bodies - and mind - are energy. So that part is true. However, our mind - and everything else in the physical universe is also spirit, consisting of information, programming. This information may reincarnate. It makes no sense to have a program and to not use it again, unless of course it is defective - in which case the delete button may be clicked on.




BrutalAntipathy -> RE: Reincarnation yay or nay? (8/23/2006 2:47:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: enigmabrat

My brother a Scientist (yes he has a degree and everthing) explained it this we. We as people if nothing els are energy enery can not be created or distroyed there for there is no way we could ever end!

Our corporeal bodies - and mind - are energy. So that part is true. However, our mind - and everything else in the physical universe is also spirit, consisting of information, programming. This information may reincarnate. It makes no sense to have a program and to not use it again, unless of course it is defective - in which case the delete button may be clicked on.


Our minds may be viewed as a sort of program, but we don't use it only once. We use it for the better part of a century in some cases. This is far longer than the lifespan of most computer programs, or even the computers themselves. Backup copies of computer programs are created and shared, but this requires an external, physical process which we have no evidence for with mind duplication.
 
As for the mind being spirit, I can't say that I agree with that. Physical trauma, seizures, transient ischemic attacks ( strokes ), and certain chemicals can alter or destroy mental processes. This indicates that the mind and it's function is a biological, physical process, with no evidence to indicate any other properties.




RavenMuse -> RE: Reincarnation yay or nay? (8/23/2006 3:05:59 AM)

Yes and no

I believe that a part of us is cyclical, going from lifetime to lifetime. That part that some lable spirit or 'soul' (Though soul is a lable with a lot of judao-christian baggage)

But the part that makes us who we are, the essential *I*, our personality, thoughts and memories... no, one shot deal.

The waters get muddied by the Akashic records (aka racial memory) and people 'remembering' past lives via there.

YMMV




Rule -> RE: Reincarnation yay or nay? (8/23/2006 3:08:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy
As for the mind being spirit, I can't say that I agree with that. Physical trauma, seizures, transient ischemic attacks ( strokes ), and certain chemicals can alter or destroy mental processes. This indicates that the mind and it's function is a biological, physical process, with no evidence to indicate any other properties.

You are not spiritually aware. Spirituality has nothing to do with physics. Such damage to the mind merely indicates the loss of that part of the spirit, which may be returned after death, or upon recuperation, or which may be recycled to be expressed elsewhere - perhaps in a galaxy or time far, far away.
 
From the spiritual point of view the brain is much like a loudspeaker or other appliance: you pour in the energy/spirit and out comes the sound/personality and intellectual abilities.
 
It is like the delta of a river: you may block one of its outlets with a dam, but that does not mean that the water that used to flow through it has disappeared.
 




twicehappy -> RE: Reincarnation yay or nay? (8/23/2006 3:09:59 AM)

Yes i do, at least some of us anyway.




BrutalAntipathy -> RE: Reincarnation yay or nay? (8/23/2006 3:25:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy
As for the mind being spirit, I can't say that I agree with that. Physical trauma, seizures, transient ischemic attacks ( strokes ), and certain chemicals can alter or destroy mental processes. This indicates that the mind and it's function is a biological, physical process, with no evidence to indicate any other properties.

You are not spiritually aware. Spirituality has nothing to do with physics. Such damage to the mind merely indicates the loss of that part of the spirit, which may be returned after death, or upon recuperation, or which may be recycled to be expressed elsewhere - perhaps in a galaxy or time far, far away.
 
On what grounds do you base this claim? As you are offering it in a form that implies that you have information concerning the subject, from where do you draw this information? If the information is simply speculative, then there is still no reason to consider the brain as more than a biological function. Perhaps you could offer supporting data by demonstrating a method by which some spiritual force could make itself known by changing brain function. As it stands, we have evidence in plenty for physical cause of information loss, but zero information on any spiritual cause.

 
From the spiritual point of view the brain is much like a loudspeaker or other appliance: you pour in the energy/spirit and out comes the sound/personality and intellectual abilities.
 
Again, this is speculative. energy is poured into an appliance, yes, but energy and matter are intertwined. They are in essence two sides of the same coin, and doubly so on the quantum level. But information is not energy. Information is a process. We have many ways of distributing information, and these are all based on natural phenomena. sound, text, and tghe like are all physical, not spiritual, manifestations.

 
It is like the delta of a river: you may block one of its outlets with a dam, but that does not mean that the water that used to flow through it has disappeared.
 
As I mentioned previously, entropy interferes with the function of useable energy. A Dam does not stop the energy potential of a dam, but it makes that energy less useful as it has allowed the kinetic energy of the flowing river to dissipate. Even with information technology, we see a degradation of data upon copying it. A transcriptionist may make errors, a file becomes corrupt, and the wear from playing a vinyl recording causes the recording to deteriorate. Without some mechanism of complexity vastly beyond any that we use for information preservation, the information contained in electrochemical storage inside our minds is going to dissipate into an unrecognisable form shortly after the end of our biological process, just like the snuffed out flame of a candle.
 


 




Rule -> RE: Reincarnation yay or nay? (8/23/2006 4:52:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy
On what grounds do you base this claim?

Experience, and my own cosmological hypotheses.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy

If the information is simply speculative, then there is still no reason to consider the brain as more than a biological function.

You are not spiritually aware.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy

Perhaps you could offer supporting data by demonstrating a method by which some spiritual force could make itself known by changing brain function.

Simply pray.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy

As it stands, we have evidence in plenty for physical cause of information loss, but zero information on any spiritual cause.

I have, but that is private.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy
Again, this is speculative. energy is poured into an appliance, yes, but energy and matter are intertwined. They are in essence two sides of the same coin, and doubly so on the quantum level.

I was not talking about physics. Spirituality affects us non-causally. It has otherwise nothing to do with energy and matter.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy

But information is not energy. Information is a process. We have many ways of distributing information, and these are all based on natural phenomena. sound, text, and tghe like are all physical, not spiritual, manifestations.

Spirituality affects physics, but is not part of physics, it is outside of physics. It is impossible to test spirituality in a physics experiment; it has to be experienced - and some people are not able to. What you are saying is analogous to saying that birds only fly in air. Well, penguins fly in water. Spirituality processes information in a way that is independent of matter and energy, because spirituality is outside those phenomena.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy
As I mentioned previously, entropy interferes with the function of useable energy. A Dam does not stop the energy potential of a dam, but it makes that energy less useful as it has allowed the kinetic energy of the flowing river to dissipate. Even with information technology, we see a degradation of data upon copying it. A transcriptionist may make errors, a file becomes corrupt, and the wear from playing a vinyl recording causes the recording to deteriorate. Without some mechanism of complexity vastly beyond any that we use for information preservation, the information contained in electrochemical storage inside our minds is going to dissipate into an unrecognisable form shortly after the end of our biological process, just like the snuffed out flame of a candle.

What you say is true as far as the physical universe is concerned. Spirituality, however, is not subject to entropy. You are still clinging to what you know. It was many years after the formulation of my cosmological hypotheses that I realized that I had deduced the existence of an information processing system larger than our universe. This astounded me, as I was not at all spiritually inclined. So there you are.




KatyLied -> RE: Reincarnation yay or nay? (8/23/2006 4:55:15 AM)

I like to think that we have souls, capable of flitting around.  As far as reincarnation, I'm not sure about that.  But I can fully understand how some people would get comfort from knowing that they and their loved ones continue on in some form.




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