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RE: bdsm relationships are "healthier" than &... - 8/23/2006 6:23:35 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
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quote:

BDSM relationships are usaully primarily built around sexual compatibility, other relationships are sometimes build around other things.

Hello M

I do not know if I agree with this. It depends on the type of BDSM relationship in the first place. In fact it just depends on the relationship full stop. The BDSM relationship I am in now, began because we had ideas and ideals that are compatable, not just sexually, but intellectually. We have compatable thoughts, likes, personalities and 'hobbies'(for the want of a word). Without those, the BDSM elements would not of been as important in our particular relationship and we would not of reached that point of discussion.

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

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...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

Post #: 21

RE: bdsm relationships are "healthier" than &... - 8/23/2006 6:46:14 AM

Tikkiee

Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
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quote:

I also feel that many people, of all orientations, are more likely to choose to stay in unhealthy relationships rather than being alone.

Now that's a sad thought, no matter how true it may be

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Post #: 22

RE: bdsm relationships are "healthier" than &... - 8/23/2006 7:03:30 AM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
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A relationship is a relationship. No relationship is inherently healthier than any other.
Communication is the key to any good relationship. If one party does not communicate then you don't have a healthy relationship.
Tying someone up does not equate to communication. Telling someone they are worthless is not communication.
Respecting one another and talking about things that bother you in life is communication.
If you look at any good relationship that has stood the test of time you will see D.s within it. Not BDSM. Because BDSM is only play and a lifestyle relationship is not based on play.
That is the primary reason why most BDSM relationships fail within the first 6 month's. When the hormones run out so does the relationship. Because there was nothing substantial to begin with.

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 23

RE: bdsm relationships are "healthier" than &... - 8/23/2006 7:14:47 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I am wondering this because I've read many times on this board how some people think a bdsm relationship is more "honest" than others they've had. I can see where this might be true, because "roles" might be more concretely defined, and "expectations" are maybe clearly stated in advance, etc. - and this certainly isn't the case in many "vanilla" relationships, I imagine (although then again - maybe it is, I don't know).

I also seem to read many posts where someone has really almost destroyed someone else with their misbehavior within a bdsm relationship, and one person (or both), have been so completely emotionally vulnerable within it, that this has left them seemingly devastated (maybe because it is a bdsm relationship, where emotions can be laid more "bare" than in some others - least I think that potential is certainly there for that to happen, than in some "vanilla" relationships).

So - I am left thinking that - simply because a bdsm relationship might contain more clearly defined roles, or more clearly stated expectations than a vanilla relationship, that if you're in one with someone who has "issues", or perhaps is simply not seeking what another person might be looking for, that a relationship is not necessarily any more ill-fated, or likewise, suited for happiness, than any non-bdsm relationship.

Any thoughts?
Are bdsm relationships "healthier" simply because they might have the capacity to be more "honest", or does this matter if the people involved simply aren't "on the same page"?

Thanks for the replies.

I don't feel that they are. I think that a D/s relationship in which the partners commit to the "honesty, communication, respect" and then follow through on that commitment as part of the recognition within themselves and each other that these are credos not just for dominants and submissives but responsible human beings within a relationship is a healthier relationship than a vanilla one in which these commitments to each other are not even under consideration anymore let alone carried through. But...I think that the same would hold true for any vanilla relationship in which you find commitment and carry-through of these credos in comparison to a D/s relationship in which they are simply words mouthed for the sake of the role and not believed in or followed through.

For me as a person involved in a D/s relationship, I want those responsibilities of those commitments to honesty, communication and respect. Do I feel that they help to define my role as a dominant? Sure, I do. But I always did believe in them as being a valuable part of any relationship I was in. Have I fallen down on my commitment to them? Yep. And each time I've fallen down, I've picked myself up...kicked myself around...learned some more about myself...and tried harder the next time. I am human...as are others. Some are more committed each time to learning and trying harder. For some, it is just a matter of "got caught this time...now to figure out a way to better "work it" next time". Others may think they are more committed and have learned something until faced with something that scares them about having to follow through on the responsibility of following one or all of them. That comes down to human failure or human success and while your choice to follow through as a dominant or submissive would/should may come into play, many times it comes down what you, as the basic you, chooses to do.

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 24

RE: bdsm relationships are "healthier" than &... - 8/23/2006 7:33:39 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
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Susan,

People are people (so why should it be?...). If those who have good communication skills AND a working awareness of themselves are paired with a person, or people, of similar skills, they will always have a better relationship than those around them. This applied for vanilla or kinky or whatever. you might be interested in reading Guy Baldwin's book Ties that Bind. He's a licensed psychotherapist that has done a lot of relationship counceling for the Leather/kink community.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
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BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 25

RE: bdsm relationships are "healthier" than &... - 8/23/2006 7:38:38 AM

Tikkiee

Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline

quote:

BDSM relationships are usaully primarily built around sexual compatibility,

Like Dark, I have to disagree with this. While BDSM CAN be highly erotic and sexual, I doubt that you would find many who would state that this is the grounding stone for their relationship . Sexual compatibility may play a part in it, but I would hazard a guess that it is a small part at best.

_____________________________

~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

Post #: 26

RE: bdsm relationships are "healthier" than &... - 8/23/2006 8:23:35 AM

amayos

Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Any thoughts?
Are bdsm relationships "healthier" simply because they might have the capacity to be more "honest", or does this matter if the people involved simply aren't "on the same page"?

So often those who sneer at "vanilla" tend to be more like vanilla than they acknowledge. Most "deviant" or "alternative" lifestyles are nothing more than vanilla relationships with a different face, or to persevere with the noxious and idiotic food analogy, vanilla with mere cherries on top.

By virtue of this fact, most BDSM "relationships" are just that—relationships which boil down into something predictable that has been given a novel face, but is no different really than what others are doing in the traditional sense.

< Message edited by amayos -- 8/23/2006 8:31:02 AM >

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 27

RE: bdsm relationships are "healthier" than &... - 8/23/2006 8:57:06 AM

stockingluvr54

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I think you may be right about a bdsm relationship being more honest? Having only been in vanilla before...all I can say is that many of my pent up fantasies etc. were never known or discussed with my mate for fear of embarrasment, abandonment, ridicule,etc. Something was always missing. Hell..you folks here know more about some of my kinks than any previous mate ever did. Honesty...too me...is the most important thing in a relationship. I will never "pretend" to be happy or fullfilled in another vanilla relationship...even if it means being single forever. It would just be a waste of everyones time. So yes....I think bdsm relatinships are hopefully more honest....at least the kink part gets talked about openly....and if you can openly discuss kink then everything else that needs to be talked about should come easy?

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 28

RE: bdsm relationships are "healthier" than &... - 8/23/2006 9:02:11 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stockingluvr54
So yes....I think bdsm relatinships are hopefully more honest....at least the kink part gets talked about openly....and if you can openly discuss kink then everything else that needs to be talked about should come easy?

I think it's weird how people can spend just a month on just this site and still think that.

Have you missed all those threads about "I want to tell him this...but I can't." or "I'm not sure how to tell him..." or "I think he's lying.." or "Why did he screw me over like that?" etc etc etc

Especially surprising is Susan who just went through her whole stalker incident. If anything would prove that people in the scene are no better than vanillas, it would be that.

People in ds or kinky relationships aren't more honest, about ANYTHING, as compared to people in vanilla relationships.

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(in reply to stockingluvr54)

Post #: 29

RE: bdsm relationships are "healthier" than &... - 8/23/2006 9:07:48 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stockingluvr54

I think you may be right about a bdsm relationship being more honest? Having only been in vanilla before...all I can say is that many of my pent up fantasies etc. were never known or discussed with my mate for fear of embarrasment, abandonment, ridicule,etc. Something was always missing. Hell..you folks here know more about some of my kinks than any previous mate ever did. Honesty...too me...is the most important thing in a relationship. I will never "pretend" to be happy or fullfilled in another vanilla relationship...even if it means being single forever. It would just be a waste of everyones time. So yes....I think bdsm relatinships are hopefully more honest....at least the kink part gets talked about openly....and if you can openly discuss kink then everything else that needs to be talked about should come easy?

Everything about your response speak volumes that it isnt BDSM relationships that are more honest or healthier or open - it just shows that you desire more honesty and more openess and a healthy relationship. You are the person unable to communicate with someone - not because they were not BDSM orientated - but because you were just not compatable enough because you couldnt be honest and enjoy the same out of a relationship.

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to stockingluvr54)

Post #: 30

RE: bdsm relationships are "healthier" than &... - 8/23/2006 9:22:43 AM

Bearlee

Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
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The only thing I can add is that, in the vanilla world, I never spent so much time and energy discussing the need for honesty and integrity. In the vanilla world I was never taught, over and over again, how important communication is to a relationship. Of course there ARE vanilla folks who DO do discuss and teach such things; but...to this extent? I dunno.

bearlee

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 31

RE: bdsm relationships are "healthier" than &... - 8/23/2006 9:29:21 AM

FirmhandKY

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The human mind uses short hand concepts and generalizations to order its world and the environment, including the social environment.

While it has almost been said several times, I think the best way to think of this subject is that the concepts of "vanilla" and "bdsm" (or D/s or WhateverTheHellThisThingWeDo is) are nothing more than false (or incomplete) concepts that have a short-hand mental utility.

There is a continum of relationships, relationship desires, emotional and sexual wants and needs. This is one reason for all the negative talk about labels and such, since what one person's mental concept of what something is, rarely perfectly matches anyone else's. You can perhaps rate a particular specific desire along an axis from "high" to "low", but the mix of all possible desires and wants is different for each person.

For example, it's commonly preceived that "subs" are masochistic. As we know, this is not true, just as every "dom" isn't sadistic, either.

The desire for honesty in a relationship is the same. It doesn't matter if you want to classify the relationship as "bdsm", "D/s", "vanilla" or something else.

When you find someone who is truly in sync with your desires and wants, then you have a great relationship. Be it "vanilla" or "bdsm" or "D/s" or "M/s" or whatever.

FHky

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 32

RE: bdsm relationships are "healthier" than &... - 8/23/2006 9:32:33 AM

agirl

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Nothing that I've seen indicates that bdsm relationships are *healthier*. They tend to suit the people involved, which is not a great deal different to a decent vanilla one that *suits the people involved*.

To be perfectly honest, I have witnessed far more people with *expectations* from a bdsm relationship, having those expectations dashed, than vanilla ones.

agirl

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 33

RE: bdsm relationships are "healthier" than &... - 8/23/2006 9:50:56 AM

MissTlTTYMilk

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Joined: 6/17/2006
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i have not read all of the above posts so forgive any redundance if applicable. For an outsider looking in, "healthy" is subjective as well as highly individualized to an individual's dynamic with another. i think more folks in D/s may be a bit more intuned with their own desires a bit more than "vanilla" folks but perhaps that can be excused by variants in generational exposure, hard limits, age, insight from previous relationships, etc. Many may have came out of that type [vanilla] of relationship and time/experience has given them more opportunities to reflect and be honest with themselves. i think whenever we are "honest" and understand and know our needs, we come to a relationship a little more prepared to accomodate and to be content. Same goes for vanilla relationships...The more you are competent to determine your needs when choosing your mate, and having the counterpart inline with the same expections and compromise--it will just work better. As far as any self help guidance whether hocus pocus or scientific------if the person "believes" it is better for them, and if they are taking strives for their own best welfare--it generally is benefical (ie positive thought process) with exceptions of course. Example if you believe hypnosis will help you quit smoking, you will be a better candidate, in general, than a person opposed to such a method.

As far as a more 'honest" relationship, it may be for some people....i wonder if these references were intended as personal comments and not taken literally as a generalization.

< Message edited by MissTlTTYMilk -- 8/23/2006 10:12:17 AM >

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Post #: 34

RE: bdsm relationships are "healthier" than &... - 8/23/2006 10:03:23 AM

stockingluvr54

Posts: 673
Joined: 6/22/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: stockingluvr54
So yes....I think bdsm relatinships are hopefully more honest....at least the kink part gets talked about openly....and if you can openly discuss kink then everything else that needs to be talked about should come easy?

I think it's weird how people can spend just a month on just this site and still think that.

Have you missed all those threads about "I want to tell him this...but I can't." or "I'm not sure how to tell him..." or "I think he's lying.." or "Why did he screw me over like that?" etc etc etc

Especially surprising is Susan who just went through her whole stalker incident. If anything would prove that people in the scene are no better than vanillas, it would be that.

People in ds or kinky relationships aren't more honest, about ANYTHING, as compared to people in vanilla relationships.

Point well taken.....thanks. Maybe I should have replaced the word honesty with open or more accepting, understanding....??? Probably wishful thinking on my part that this lifestyle would be any more honest than any other. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 35

RE: bdsm relationships are "healthier" than &... - 8/23/2006 10:22:07 AM

agirl

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The thing I appreciate the absolute MOST about my M/s relationship is the way that personal issues get discussed. Not the *honesty, per se....but the way it's handled.

In my marriages, honesty wasn't a huge problem but the way we processed and handled it WAS.

It's not a lot of use wishing for or demanding honesty if you don't have the wherewithall to deal with it.

I don't think health or honesty is peculiar to bdsm relationships but quite a lot of things tend to get discussed initially with *head* rather than *heart* though I'm not sure that it makes a whole lot of difference.

agirl

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 36

RE: bdsm relationships are "healthier" than &... - 8/23/2006 10:46:51 AM

Slipstreme

Posts: 817
Joined: 1/1/2006
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quote:

Any thoughts?
Are bdsm relationships "healthier" simply because they might have the capacity to be more "honest", or does this matter if the people involved simply aren't "on the same page"?

No. It takes everyone to make a relationship work. The chemistry must work out properly, and some people are more suited for vanilla relationships than BDSM relationships. Basically, I think the best thing is getting to know the person you want to be with first and foremost, and watching how the relationship evolves. Admittedly, I'm sure most of the people on this list would agree, that they would not want a vanilla relationship and are more suited for D/s and would probably miss out in a vanilla relationship and find themselves wanting something more.

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(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 37

RE: bdsm relationships are "healthier" than &... - 8/23/2006 10:56:39 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

Susan,

Health-"er", "more"-honest? No, I don't think so. If you visited a mirror vanilla site where relationships are discussed you'd see the same statistical distribution between of functioning and nonfunctional couples and everything in between. Most likely the "successful" in both use the same tools.

Reference the thread regarding "contracts". The concept wasn't created by the BDSM world. It was borrowed from wedding vows. In the BDSM community it may have evolved, for some, to focusing principally on the physical aspects of the relationship dynamic; but the "vow" aspect of responsibility and expectation is it's main purpose even if the emotional and mental pieces are reduced to an undercurrent.

Coming from a failed marriage, not totally vanilla but mostly, I think if there was a required exercise to write down my expectations of what marriage would be like, and comparing them to my wife's; I believe we would have discovered we were meant to fail. The requirement, of course, was that we both disclosed our desires and goals for the relationship honestly. I can't speak from the perspective of a successful "vanilla" couple, but I would expect they don't do things any different. They plan together, they trust each other, they have assigned responsibilities, and they have goals. Ideally they are happy and fulfilled by each other and the results of their efforts. They respect the other person as complimentary, recognize their value and communicate that appreciation often, at minimum daily, to the other person in words and deeds. If you do this on an ongoing basis you won't eliminate the speed bumps that life puts in your road but you'll have someone's hand to hold and rely on to share the work if the bump causes you stop your journey to change a tire or do some other repair. Even if you need a new car, or it's in the shop for a long time, you trust that eventually you'll be back on that road together. More important you don't waste time arguing if it was the driver or navigator's fault for not seeing the bump and avoiding it. Focus remains on the goal, fixing the problem and getting on with the journey. Whether the car is a Z3 BMW with a performance package or a Saturn with factory standard equipment; the process is the same.

The BDSM and/or D/s aspect is just a tangent. It doesn't make it any easier or harder to have a functioning, healthy, trusting relationship. The same "work" is involved. The same trust to be exposed and "naked" with your emotions and goals is required. We may have some buzzwords we use, like 'contracts' but the lifestyle community didn't invent any magic formula for success.

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 38

RE: bdsm relationships are "healthier" than &... - 8/23/2006 10:59:10 AM

SCORPIOXXX

Posts: 223
Joined: 11/6/2004
Status: offline

FAST REPLY...

Pepople are people, whether vanilla or chocolate, with all the foibles that come with the human creature... A "healthy/honest" relationship depends on the parties involved... Bullshit always gets found out sooner or later, and only fools take it and stick with it -- as in someone who sticks with a cheater or a sever abuser, hoping things will change (yeah, right, good luck, lol!)... And that's pretty much that

(in reply to Slipstreme)

Post #: 39

RE: bdsm relationships are "healthier" than &... - 8/23/2006 11:23:45 AM

stockingluvr54

Posts: 673
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

quote:

ORIGINAL: stockingluvr54

I think you may be right about a bdsm relationship being more honest? Having only been in vanilla before...all I can say is that many of my pent up fantasies etc. were never known or discussed with my mate for fear of embarrasment, abandonment, ridicule,etc. Something was always missing. Hell..you folks here know more about some of my kinks than any previous mate ever did. Honesty...too me...is the most important thing in a relationship. I will never "pretend" to be happy or fullfilled in another vanilla relationship...even if it means being single forever. It would just be a waste of everyones time. So yes....I think bdsm relatinships are hopefully more honest....at least the kink part gets talked about openly....and if you can openly discuss kink then everything else that needs to be talked about should come easy?

Everything about your response speak volumes that it isnt BDSM relationships that are more honest or healthier or open - it just shows that you desire more honesty and more openess and a healthy relationship. You are the person unable to communicate with someone - not because they were not BDSM orientated - but because you were just not compatable enough because you couldnt be honest and enjoy the same out of a relationship.

Peace and Rapture

My last two relationships ended on a sour note and the bottom line was we were not compatable like you mentioned. At that time I knew something was missing but wasn't sure what it was? Still not quite sure exactly where I might fit into this lifestyle and thats why I'm here...to learn and hopefully find that someone? That person is somewhere within this lifestyle. At least within this lifestyle I can be open and once I figure out where I may fit... then I can be more honest with any potential mate...(yes, a profile update is in order). Unfortunately without any real experience it's hard to define wants and needs honestly when everything has been based mostly on fantasy? Been in turmoil lately trying to honestly figure things out and it's comming real slow and constantly changing abit. When and if a potential comes along....the dialog will be open and honest to the best of my ability. Thanks for your insight...it all helps.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 40

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