How Honest Should Friendship Be?

How Honest Should Friendship Be? (Full Version)

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babysburnin -> How Honest Should Friendship Be? (8/24/2006 7:06:12 PM)
I'm sure many of you have had a friend that is involved with someone who you can plainly see is not good for them. The mate is not a bad person, but kills your friend's spirit, so to speak. It's more complicated when adding that thay have children together. As an observer, it's so easy to see (as I know my "mistakes" were seen by others close to me). How honest should a friend be? I've always opted for being supportive, and letting them discover for themselves. What if they need the perverbial "kick in the ass", what if they are disillusioning themselves? What if they are not emotionally ready to accept the truth, and therefore, why they are in their state of denial? Do I "gently" push them into discovery, or do I just stay supportive and listen?

TxBadMan -> RE: How Honest Should Friendship Be? (8/24/2006 7:16:37 PM)
It is not possible to give you a sensible answer here without knowing all the details of your friends relationship. On one hand, you can say that you should just stay supportive, and be there when he/she needs you. But, depending on how bad the situation actually is, this may not be the best course of action to take. It all depends on the situation.

Arpig -> RE: How Honest Should Friendship Be? (8/24/2006 8:01:47 PM)
I had a friend once. He got engaged to an absolutely horrible woman, I couldn't give a reason, but I knew she was trouble. When he announced his engagement, I told him it was a mistake, and when I was invited to the wedding, I told him I wished him well, but as his friend, I could not attend his wedding, as I was very much opposed to it. He went ahead and got married, and stopped speaking with me. I did what I did, because I considered him a friend, and I felt he was making a serious error, so I told him so, and took whatever heat was coming as a result. As an aside, about 5 years later he came back to town for a visit, and I ran into him at a friend's place, he told me I had been right, and he wished he'd listened to me. If you cannot trust your friends to be honest with you, who can you trust?

babysburnin -> RE: How Honest Should Friendship Be? (8/24/2006 8:09:47 PM)
As I mentioned, this person is not a "bad" person, there is no physical abuse, emotional abuse is there, but honestly - it's a remarkable find when two different people don't "ding" each other now and then unintentionally, but some of the emotional abuse is intentional. They've been together since college age, and now they are in their 40's with kids. I dare to say they have outgrown each other - now they just "tolerate" one another. Yes, there is nostalgic love, and love that will always be there. Is this the fate of most relationships over time?

SusanofO -> RE: How Honest Should Friendship Be? (8/24/2006 8:17:30 PM)
I don't think there is much you can do except stay supportive and "listen". I do have a friend who habitually gets involved with men I consider losers, and I do still listen to her talk about it, but - with half an ear, anymore. I am still "there" for her, if she really decides she needs my advice. But - I've told her (when she's complained about their: Lack of ambition, trouble with the law, ex-wives, drinking, drugs, etc.), that I think she deserves more responsible and considerate guys - over and over - and she still find these complete losers, and then complains about them, extensively - without dumping them. She is a bright, professional, nice-looking gal, too. I think she's wasting herself on them. She knows how I feel. I've said it more than once. Even if she hadn't asked my advice about their "relationship", if she simply asked me what I thought of them, after having been introduced and talking for a bit with them, I'd have told her the same thing - because I do think my opinion is on target in these circumstances. If you haven't been asked for an opinion - unless you think someone's life is in danger, I say - stay out of it. If she wants your opinion, give it to her. You can "soft-pedal it", if you think the hard, unvarnished "truth as you see it" would be hard for her to hear, but not so much the point does not get across (least that's what I think). I give this gal's whiny monologues a fifteen-minute limit anymore, (in my own head, I don't tell her this), if she calls complaining, but I do act on it by saying I have to get off the phone now,etc. She can live her life any way she wants. But if she wants to be stuck with these guys on purpose, then the ramifications are hers to deal with. It's not like higher-caliber men don't ask her out, because they do. She appears to favor dating losers. Nicer guys are not as "exciting" to her somehow. She does have self-esteem issues (I think) that stem from severe sexual abuse as a pre-teen and teenager, and I've suggested (even pleaded with her) for years, to get counselling for that, but she thinks it's "not affecting her life". Well, I think it definitely is, and I think the men she dates are one example of how. *Also, I feel it depends on the personality* of the person(s) involved, as far as how "ready" they will be to listen to any reasonable advice. I tried to get this same gal to hold off on filing for a divorce, and said I thought marriage counselling was worth a shot - this gal had two toddlers when she divorced; her husband had had an affair with two different women, and she was really angry. She wouldn't wait to cool down. She filed for divorce within two days of finding out her husband had cheated on her twice, and went through with it without ever considering marriage counselling. Then for five subsequent years, I heard from her about how hard it was to 1) Get a divorce and 2) Be divorced. I did say I was sympathetic (and I was, truly) but - I also finally said to her: "Yeah - and who told you it might be a good idea to wait and think it over? But would you listen? No." I am not an "I told you so" type - usually. But I got so tired of hearing about the post-divorce trauma, which I'd tried to somewhat help prevent, day in and day out. After I said that, she quit talking about it so much, and got some post-divorce professional counselling. But now it sounds like I am whining (sorry). I think it can be annoying to give advice that isn't listened to at all, especially if you see the other person suffering, and want to help. Anyway - those are my "two cents", for what they're worth. - Susan

juliaoceania -> RE: How Honest Should Friendship Be? (8/24/2006 10:44:09 PM)
I told my best friend her fiance asked me out, and it kinda wrecked our friendship. We had been good friends for over a decade, all through high school. There were other reasons that our friendship ended, but that was the biggest one. I miss her still, but I had to tell her she was going to marry a shit-for-brains dickhead,

cloudboy -> RE: How Honest Should Friendship Be? (8/24/2006 11:00:31 PM)
Please consult you local Depeche Mode album, specifically, THE POLICY OF TRUTH. Everything's laid out there in full, no rock left unturned.

petcerina -> RE: How Honest Should Friendship Be? (8/25/2006 6:15:46 AM)
As my psychologist said, tell them once, let them know your point of view, then after that, no more. Anything beyond that is trying to control the other person. Just be supportive, but let them know how you feel about it.

littleone35 -> RE: How Honest Should Friendship Be? (8/25/2006 7:06:20 AM)
I think the best thing you can do is be suppotive i went through this same thing tried to tell her about the jerk she was with and almost lost the friend but we mended fences. She found out i was right so for years i kept my mouth shut and and just gave her shoulder to lean on. As an aside she is now engaged to a great guy all her friends love him so a happy ending. Matt's littleone

nefertari -> RE: How Honest Should Friendship Be? (8/25/2006 6:49:45 PM)
If you say something, your friend may feel that she has to defend her mate and her choices and it could very well damage the friendship. If that happens and she ever did decide the relationship wasn't right for her it is much harder to act on without a support system. My advice would be to be supportive of her now. If she asks for your advice/opinion be honest, but diplomatic.

BlueHnS -> RE: How Honest Should Friendship Be? (8/26/2006 9:36:42 PM)
It depends on what type of a person you are. I don't mean dominant or submissive or whatever ... My friends know if you ask my opinion it's at your own risk. If you dont want the answer don't ask the question. I expect the same in return. If something bothers me enough, I will say my piece then leave it be without waiting to be asked. Then there are self induced situations and there comes a certain point where one forfeits the right to have a sympathetic shoulder. It's much like getting invited to the pool. You can't swim. Someone or several somoeone's offer to teach you to swim. After you've declined enough offers absolutely no one wants to to listen to you kvetch about not being able to swim. On the other hand, my girlfriend is very cautious about peoples feelings and would debate on this issue so long the party would have found out for herself the guy just wasn't right, then blamed her for not speaking up in the name of friendship. It's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. Whatever your choice, be true to your own character...

dixicritter -> RE: How Honest Should Friendship Be? (8/27/2006 2:44:26 PM)
My friends generally know that I am there for them no matter what. So I wait for them to come to me for advice, which will happen in most good friendships. I let them know up front I won't sugar coat things, but that I will support them in whatever decision they ultimately decide to make because they are the ones that have to live with the decision not me. I'll still always be there as a support system for them. So far that's never cost me a friendship.

bound2bnaughty -> RE: How Honest Should Friendship Be? (10/19/2006 3:35:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dixicritter My friends generally know that I am there for them no matter what. So I wait for them to come to me for advice, which will happen in most good friendships. I let them know up front I won't sugar coat things, but that I will support them in whatever decision they ultimately decide to make because they are the ones that have to live with the decision not me. I'll still always be there as a support system for them. So far that's never cost me a friendship. You are the bestest friend one could have Smoooches

sintralgasub -> RE: How Honest Should Friendship Be? (10/20/2006 4:02:57 AM)
There is a group of 4 of us who have been friends for years. One of the group went through a divorce, began seeing someone we all felt wasn't a good relationship for her. It was her decision, so we kept our mouths shut. He hit her, knocked her down IN PUBLIC, we spoke up. She didn't hear us. She eloped, soon he moved her out of state. We go to visit her every now and then, she does come home every now and then. We listen to her and support her, she has now realized he is not good for her, and she is trying to gather the strength to make a move. The three of us talked about it, and decided we would be there for her in the manner that she will let us for now, and when the time comes, we will be there to help her pick up the pieces. Another dear friend of mine always seemed to attract losers after her divorce. There was one who was particularly bad, I did not care for him at all. I told her so, I told her she needed to seek happiness within herself, not from someone else. She wouldn't listen, and now she can't. He got behind the wheel drunk and killed her, he walked away from the accident. It's good there is no physical abuse in their relationship, emotional abuse can be very damaging - but there is nothing you can do until she is ready to make her move except be there for her. You are in a difficult spot. It is hard to see someone you care for in a bad situation. Be there for her in the manner she will let you, but my opinion is to at least tell her what you are thinking and let her know you are there for her. At least you will have said it and she will know.

Areflectionofyou -> RE: How Honest Should Friendship Be? (10/20/2006 4:14:59 AM)
you could simply state "im worried about you" and i am here for you if you need a Ear. My friends stood by me (thankGod) through a very unstable , abusive relationship. Im glad they chose my friendship even when i had blinders on.

BiteGirl -> RE: How Honest Should Friendship Be? (10/20/2006 4:20:43 AM)
I would be compleatly honest. Honestys the best polocy.

toservez -> RE: How Honest Should Friendship Be? (10/20/2006 9:03:18 AM)
One of those questions we tend to answer black or white but are almost always gray. Personally I am a big beleiver that as a friend it is very important to be honest. A friend can act as an independent observer more so then a stranger who can only grasp just basic facts and does not know the friend or a family memeber who maybe is completely bias in the situation. The problems are of course is what type a person is that friend. Is it one who can be objective about the person or the situation, or are they the tpye that see themselves and what has been done to them in everything. For example, I have a friend who seriously tells everyone who she calls a friend that their spouse/boyfriend is a piece of crap. She is a good person but has become so jaded from her own relationships she has become a sad cartoon in this area. I think as a good friend all you can do is be honest with the person and point out things as you see them and be supportive and try not to make it a contest about you being right or wrong. Be prepared they might pull away but try to prevent it or stay open to them coming back.

sweetnurseBBW -> RE: How Honest Should Friendship Be? (10/20/2006 11:34:36 AM)
I have been in the same situation. If you are too pushy the person may become defensive and become angry at you. Be supportive, offer facts and try to be non judgemental.

kisshou -> RE: How Honest Should Friendship Be? (10/21/2006 2:51:21 AM)
To answer your question it sounds like they vent to you and need you to listen. Once the kids are grown they probably have plans to move on out of the relationship. A personal story that relates though is one day I was at the beach and my really good friend's boyfriend was there laying down on a towel with another girl practically having sex. I called her and said 'hey, are you still going out with Tom?' to which she replied 'yes'. I told her what he was doing because if it was me, I would want to know. She dumped him then went back out with him 2 weeks later. We never talked again because of course her 'boyfriend' hated me. Alot of times it is okay for the person in the relationship to criticize a partner but if someone else does they will leap to his defense. You have to respect the fact that he is her husband.

CrazyC -> RE: How Honest Should Friendship Be? (10/21/2006 8:59:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: babysburnin As I mentioned, this person is not a "bad" person, there is no physical abuse, emotional abuse is there, but honestly - it's a remarkable find when two different people don't "ding" each other now and then unintentionally, but some of the emotional abuse is intentional. They've been together since college age, and now they are in their 40's with kids. I dare to say they have outgrown each other - now they just "tolerate" one another. Yes, there is nostalgic love, and love that will always be there. Is this the fate of most relationships over time? Goodness, is it really fate or more choice. That is a pretty long relationship, and by now they have come accustom to each other. At some point, i am sure there was a strong love for each other. Also another question is what type of background did they come from? Divorce might be something that isn't even an option, especially because of kids. To just step away from a relationship that has lasted this long, could be really hard. If you spent that much time and effort in one lifestyle would you give it all away in a flash? (that was a hypothetical question, and doesn't need a responce...since i know there are some who would. i being one of them.) Just place yourself in her shoes. There is hope though in that as her friend, you can support her, tell her when the verbal abuse is wrong, and encourage her to seek help for herself or for both of them. When someone has become use to the abuse, they no longer know what is true or lies. I have seen some great marriages get through this stuff by getting help. The key though is that both parties need to be open to seeing their own faults and fix them, so that together they have a healthy relationship. Since it was brought up, even in a physically abusive situation you have to support where you can. i just went through a time were all i could do was watch my sister get psychologically and physically abused. She knew i worked with abused women all the time, because of some volunteer work that i did. (God you don't know what it is like to have your hand tied behind your back.) So i told her when she is ready....i was there. She never came, and i am sure my BIL said i was making something out of nothing. With her preg, she finally hit her limit and told me everything. It took her two more weeks to put a restraining order and have him move out. (She just wasn't ready.) The reason i say you can't "rescue" the person is because they need to do this for themselves. i don't know how many times i have situations were a friend rescued an abused friend, but only a few months later the victim was dead because she/he just couldn't live without him/her.

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