Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (Full Version)

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Chaingang -> Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (8/25/2006 1:29:12 PM)

The Fifth Book of Moses, called
Deuteronomy

13:12 If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,
13:13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;
13:14 Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;
13:15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.
13:16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.
13:17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and shew thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers;
13:18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.

-----

17:2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
17:7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

-----

The Point:
When you go looking for monsters, make sure the monster isn't also you.

Too often I have heard it said here that Christianity is different from other religions - that those "other" religions are barbaric and seek the destruction of those unlike themselves. Previously I have pointed to the Book of Joshua (aka the Book of the Conquest) and noted how the ancient Israelites dealt with the people inhabiting the 'promised land." Personally, I don't think the Book of Joshua records historical fact, but instead provides the first myth of genocide. But the point is that the intolerance, hatred, and violence is there - right there, in your most sacred texts, the supposed "word of god!"

I am not picking on Christians, far from it. I think all of the Mosaic faiths are each of them just as stupid and vulgar as the others: Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are all three equally full of shit. But don't listen to me. I give you Thomas Paine, well known U.S. patriot and pamphleteer of the American Revolution (he wrote "Common Sense"), from his "The Age of Reason":

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of . . . Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."




SirKenin -> RE: Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (8/25/2006 3:12:59 PM)

Well it is obvious that you can quote the Bible, but it is equally obvious that you have no idea how to apply it, it's historical significance or it's context.

As you are obviously not aware, the Jews were promised the Promise land when they left Egypt.  They did not have the faith that they could conquer it, so they were relegated to wandering around the desert for 40 years until the next generation came along.  The idea that you have presented in Deuteronomy was that the Israelites were not to be tempted to worship the gods of the Canaanites and try to attract others to their "faith".  Much like today when people worship God by images and give saints and angels divine honors (you see this a lot in the Catholic faith).  That is also idolatry in the modern sense of the word.  This was one of the key demands of the ten commandments.  Liken it to modern day capital punishment.  The false witnesses were not to be spared to go out and corrupt their fellow Israelites once more.  They were to be put to death to put an end to their mischief.  God did, and does, take idolatry very seriously.

Now you will notice that Jesus never preached this concept, and there is a reason for it.  The face of Christianity changed after his arrival, death and resurrection forever.  We are no longer required to slay the "enemy", and this is where your "logic" falls flat on it's face.  The Israelites of that time lived under Deuteronomic Law, otherwise known as the "Old Law".  Modern day Christians live under the New Law.

This post that you made does not make any indication of your intelligence, but rather your ignorance in the matter of things of the Bible.  It is thinking such as yours that breeds radicals.

By the way, I do sincerely question Thomas Paine's "knowledge" of any of the creeds of any of those churches.  I do not know of any church that has a creed that everyone else is wrong and they are right, and I am familiar with several of them.  That does not make Me a follower of any particular church of course, but I do question the validity of his statement.  It really sounds like he is equally ignorant.




MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (8/25/2006 4:29:39 PM)

The face of Judaism changed after Jesus, not Christianity.




LotusSong -> RE: Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (8/25/2006 4:56:41 PM)

Why is it that whever anyone wants to justify a war, they go to the "Holy Books" (rhetorical question)





Termyn8or -> RE: Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (8/25/2006 5:15:31 PM)

The first thing everybody forgets is that the old testament only applies to Jews.

IF JEWS leave the faith to worship other gods, if THE JEWS do this or do that.

Technically Christians are in violation of Judaic Law by having a Savior, pretty much a God before God, or YHWH, God or Abraham, whatever. This is a clear contradiction. This was also the reason for the crucifixtion.

Basically if you're a Christian you can open your bible to the first page of the new testament and tear it in half. That's what they say. Throw the old testament away.

While I am not a stone atheist, I agree that religion is bullshit. Not that there isn't some wisdom in the books, I didn't say that.

T




Arpig -> RE: Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (8/25/2006 7:31:54 PM)

AAAAARRRGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!


Christianity is a judaic sect!!!!! Nothing more, nothing less. I really don't care what fictitious super-being you choose to believe in, or what form that belief takes, but please, please, please get your facts straight!




Chaingang -> RE: Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (8/25/2006 8:12:38 PM)

Did I imply otherwise? I am saying that these faiths - one more hate-filled and bilious than the next - are all from the same bullshit source: Moses claiming that Abraham was the founder.

I'll have more to say later. I'm hoping that others can straighten out Sir Kenin before I have to bother...




SirKenin -> RE: Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (8/25/2006 8:58:40 PM)

Well, I am prepared to provide references if I have to... So... Bring it on!! lol [:D]




MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (8/26/2006 7:41:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I agree that religion is bullshit. Not that there isn't some wisdom in the books, I didn't say that.

T
I agree whole heartedly, T. Religion has always been nothing more then a reason to segregate people, not unify them.




IronBear -> RE: Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (8/26/2006 12:36:09 PM)

Whilst I have to say that the Born Again Christians are the most agressive, abrasive, rude, threatening, in your face, we are right and all else is wrong because I talked to god and he told me so, groups I have encountered in Australia and the only group which I have had (and won) several physical battles with. I have to say I have several friends and a largish number of acquaintances who are Born Again. Where they differ is that unlike the public in the public over the top sector, they are firm in their beliefs and yet show humility and rerspect for other peoples' beliefs. I feel but don't know for sure that there are people with genuine Christian beliefs who follow the public teachings of Christ (rather than the BS dogma of the long established churches) and who came to their faith by being born again in a varuiety of ways. there are also those who by their natire and personality are radical and need a cause to fight and rabble rouse. they will be the same crowd who styart lynch mods and hate actions. Psychologically I'd have to say that they are generally uninformed agressive children with a propensity towards bullyinmg any who disagree with them in the bodies of adults of all ages.. 




CrappyDom -> RE: Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (8/26/2006 1:33:07 PM)

IB,

Jimmy Carter is one of those whom I believe follows the teachings of Christ rather than the "supply side Jesus".




SirKenin -> RE: Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (8/26/2006 3:29:04 PM)

You know what?  I am so sick of the intolerance I have seen being bred on these boards.  You people are supposed to be so "tolerant", especially considering the lifestyle we live in.  You plead tolerance for homosexuality.  You plead tolerance for depravity.  You plead tolerance for the lifestyle.  You speak about every filth known to man...  But then because of the actions of a select few everyone gets painted with your same sickening brush of hatred.

I am a Christian and I am standing here right now telling you that I will not tolerate it any more.  I am speaking out.  I live and let live.  I love.  I care.  I maintain an open mind.  And I will not be painted by this brush of hatred.  If you are going to speak about something, do not pull a CrappyDom and at least get your facts straight.

There are radicals in every religion, but there are far more loving, caring, compassionate and sensitive people.  This includes Judaism, Catholicism, Protestants, Wiccans, Muslims and everything in between.  There are bad apples in every religion, but we also have bad apples on this board that give the lifestyle a bad name.  Plenty of them.  Shall we paint the lifestyle with the same brush with which you paint religion?

I know there are a couple of people that have nothing better to do then bash others, like CrappyDom who can not spit out two sentences without bashing Republicans and Christians, but if he wants to look foolish, let him.  Hand him enough rope and eventually he will hang himself.  Do not jump on the bandwagon.  You CAN be bigger than that.  There are bad apples on the Left and the Right.  Do not be that blind.  If you were hoping that it makes you look somehow intelligent and informed, I can promise you that it does not.

You ask for tolerance.  Fine.  Give back some of which you take and this world will be a better place for all of us.




darkinshadows -> RE: Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (8/26/2006 3:53:39 PM)

Fact is - although Kenin and I rarely agree - I am with him on this.
 
People have the right to say exactly what they think.  People have the right to think anything they like.
But there is a difference between speaking a truth, and speaking your truth and stirring up religious hatred,  against WHATEVER the religion.
 
Makes you no better than the person you are trying to belittle.
 
I am a christian.  As the term exists, I am a born again christian because I was not raised one.
So I must be one of the most hate filled persons around, according to the boards recently.
 
I follow the teachings of christs love.  Don't like it?  Then ignore me.  Have I told you - you must be saved?  Nope, because thats not my decision to make.  It isn't my way.
 
Are some people contributing to threads like these bigoted?
Think about it.
 
The point?
 
quote:

When you go looking for monsters, make sure the monster isn't also you.

Maybe people should practise what they preach?
 

quote:

I agree whole heartedly, T. Religion has always been nothing more then a reason to segregate people, not unify them.

With that I don't disagree.  But then, your doing the exact same thing by making such a comment - you are singling out religions and segregating them because they are the segregators?
Think on that.
 
Soap boxes are there to stand on and spout off all what is on your chest.  The loathing, the name calling, the hate.  Lets single out the abusers, and womanizers, and leaches of christianity, Crappy.  While your at it - take a good long hard look at the abusers and womanizers and leaches in BDSM as well.  Oh and local government.  And even the teachers in your local schools.
 
Because they exist there as well.
 
All the people spouting religious hatred on these threads - complaining about islam - ridiculing christianity - telling the jews they can all go fuck off .... all the people contributing to more and more hatred... calling people aggressive, or or sick fucks.  You are no better people.
Youre full of hate.  And bigotry.  You just hide it better by trying to hold up a mirror.
Well, I have news for you.
Its just a pane of glass.
 
Peace and Rapture




IronBear -> RE: Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (8/26/2006 4:04:21 PM)

One question Kenin. Was your last post aimed at me or at CD or someone else? If it was aimed at me, perhaps ou need tro re-read what I said and then point out where you think I am wrong. provably what I have said re the rabble portion of the Born Agains are ion Poluice files as is my varuious physical battle with them including the list of dammaged bvodies I left whilst defending myself, and the three dead bodies resulting when a group of them wanter to burn me at the stake.. I know many goog Christian People who are not part of the organized churches but follow the teachings of Christ and show it in their lives as I know mostly good Muslems who are peacefull and tollerent, something shared my most of the culturally and religiously diverse people I have the pleasure and honour of knowing.

IB




pahunkboy -> RE: Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (8/26/2006 4:36:10 PM)

i cant covet the neighbors wife...but no mention of the actual nighbor himself.

oh- and talk about oxen and azz. whats that about ?




Chaingang -> RE: Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (8/26/2006 4:44:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows
quote:

When you go looking for monsters, make sure the monster isn't also you.

Maybe people should practise what they preach?


The broader context here is one of weeks in the U.S. with a hyped up terror scare (a regular tactic of the Republican party) and intolerance for Islam bordering on special IDs, separate but equal facilities, and even possibly rounding up Muslims into camps or some other madness. Some people on these very boards advocate these things because the hype is proving MOST EFFECTIVE upon them.

I am an outsider to Abrahamic (or as I say, Mosaic) faiths. I am not a believer. But as an outsider I must ask why many of the members of the three main branches of the Abrahamic faiths - Judaism, Christianity and Islam - cannot seemingly get along with one another. Frankly, what the fuck gives with that?

Personally, I am not that happy to have my neighbors squabbling even if they somehow manage to keep me out of it. And you just know how one well-placed nuke is going to spoil everyone's day. But unlike my own countrymen, I am looking at all of these religious nutters askance and asking the tough questions - I am not just picking out one group and laying the blame upon them.

Now maybe I am not living in the right places in the world to know, but do the followers of the Shinto faith routinely call for the deaths of the followers of Zen Buddhism and with the ability to point to scripture supporting their intolerant viewpoints? I think not. And even if they did, their numbers don't cover better than 75% of the world.

More anon...




SirKenin -> RE: Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (8/26/2006 4:45:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

One question Kenin. Was your last post aimed at me or at CD or someone else? If it was aimed at me, perhaps ou need tro re-read what I said and then point out where you think I am wrong. provably what I have said re the rabble portion of the Born Agains are ion Poluice files as is my varuious physical battle with them including the list of dammaged bvodies I left whilst defending myself, and the three dead bodies resulting when a group of them wanter to burn me at the stake.. I know many goog Christian People who are not part of the organized churches but follow the teachings of Christ and show it in their lives as I know mostly good Muslems who are peacefull and tollerent, something shared my most of the culturally and religiously diverse people I have the pleasure and honour of knowing.

IB



No, My post was not aimed at any one person in specific, and if it appeared otherwise I do apologize.  I will however let them wear the shoe if it fits.

As for not being members of an organized church, I can say with all honesty that I am not.  I do not subscribe to organized religion.  I subscribe to the Bible and Christ's teachings, and thus do not live a life of exclusivity.  Like I said, I live and let live and keep an open mind....and I am proud of it..  [:D]




KatyLied -> RE: Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (8/26/2006 4:54:04 PM)

quote:

Judaism, Christianity and Islam - cannot seemingly get along with one another. Frankly, what the fuck gives with that?


Many seem to have difficulty following the tenents of their faith and can't treat others with respect or tolerance.  It's a diversity problem.  I think it stems from the belief that their way is the only way.  It always bothers me when someone says something like "he's good, he's a Christian."  As if someone who has another belief or none at all can't be good.  I've never understood that.  I have discovered that I am not a person who can follow any organized religion easily.




Chaingang -> RE: Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (8/26/2006 5:59:33 PM)

Before it gets heavier later on, I can't help but repost this bit for comedy relief:

"The Daily Show - God is a three timing whore"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw3o5tMXaAE

"My sources told me he never even loved those two..."




ownedgirlie -> RE: Religion of Religious Intolerance and Violence (8/26/2006 6:33:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

You know what?  I am so sick of the intolerance I have seen being bred on these boards.  You people are supposed to be so "tolerant", especially considering the lifestyle we live in.  You plead tolerance for homosexuality.  You plead tolerance for depravity.  You plead tolerance for the lifestyle.  You speak about every filth known to man...  But then because of the actions of a select few everyone gets painted with your same sickening brush of hatred.

Thank you.  I have quietly tolerated the hateful views against my own faith but it is getting old.  I am not a born-again.  I am not a radical.  I don't even go to church.  But at every turn (not just here) I see remarks made against Christianity that would have people arrested for making the same remarks against any other religious faith.  There are bad seeds in every sect. Point out the seeds if you  must, but please stop painting us all with the same soiled brush.




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