RE: Universal Healthcare

RE: Universal Healthcare (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid

Message

WhipTheHip -> RE: Universal Healthcare (8/27/2006 4:45:15 PM)
> That's the weakest area of all. Libertarianism has nothing to say about protecting > the environment, and that's the reason why libertarianism is going to disappear in > this century as a viable political philosophy. What do you mean? Without government laws big corporations and every rich dude will start acting responsibly. Selfishness, short-sighted greed, and self- centeredness will suddenly disappear when people realize if they don't behave responsibly the world will go to hell in a handbasket. The free marketplace will guarantee companies do the right thing, just like no company would ever make killer tires in a free market place, because they would know if they did, and the world found out about it, they would go out of business. Without government laws businesses will stop trying to push the envelope on what they can get away with.

Level -> RE: Universal Healthcare (8/27/2006 5:00:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip quote: ORIGINAL: Level Gent, honestly, there's a fairly large number of conservatives (or those that use the title, as you say, those are not always helpful lol) that are similar to your conservatives. Reagan did not have a sparkling environmental record, but Nixon, as reviled as he is, did make an effort in that area. As for a concern for the poor, many conservatives care deeply about such things, but also believe in remedying it in different ways, IE growing the economy, targeting poverty-stricken areas with tax-free zones, etc. This is so much bullshit. Conservatives target the poor for destruction. Many poor are functionally illiterate. Most poor work, but can't afford a decent life. The United States is an obscene country where many rich have multi-million dollar yachts with year round crews, and disabled poor in many states having to get their teeth pulled by an oral surgeon because Medicaide in their state does not pay for dental care. No, it's not. Now, get your panties out of a knot.....

Lordandmaster -> RE: Universal Healthcare (8/27/2006 6:04:52 PM)
Yeah, that's right. Everyone will rush to curb greenhouse-gas emissions as soon as the government stops trying to regulate them. Wait, the government isn't regulating them. Then why isn't anyone curtailing greenhouse-gas emissions? Case closed. quote: ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip > That's the weakest area of all. Libertarianism has nothing to say about protecting > the environment, and that's the reason why libertarianism is going to disappear in > this century as a viable political philosophy. What do you mean? Without government laws big corporations and every rich dude will start acting responsibly. Selfishness, short-sighted greed, and self- centeredness will suddenly disappear when people realize if they don't behave responsibly the world will go to hell in a handbasket. The free marketplace will guarantee companies do the right thing, just like no company would ever make killer tires in a free market place, because they would know if they did, and the world found out about it, they would go out of business. Without government laws businesses will stop trying to push the envelope on what they can get away with.

Arpig -> RE: Universal Healthcare (8/27/2006 6:20:34 PM)
I did not read the whole thread because anybody who disagrees with universal health care is either an uncaring rich bastard, or a an idiot!! Before you rightys start deriding the Canadian health care system, please keep in mind that the present "crisis" started shortly after Brian Mulrooney was elected...it didn't exist before the conservatives tried to fix it, and before you acuse me of partisanshipness, I voted conservative in the relavant elections....I was wrong, I fucked up and worse than wasting my vote, I cast it for the wrong people.

caitlyn -> RE: Universal Healthcare (8/27/2006 6:33:57 PM)
Arpig and mistoferin sum up my view. It's shameful that we are playing, "lets make a profit" with people's health.

Level -> RE: Universal Healthcare (8/27/2006 6:49:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig I did not read the whole thread because anybody who disagrees with universal health care is either an uncaring rich bastard, or a an idiot!! Before you rightys start deriding the Canadian health care system, please keep in mind that the present "crisis" started shortly after Brian Mulrooney was elected...it didn't exist before the conservatives tried to fix it, and before you acuse me of partisanshipness, I voted conservative in the relavant elections....I was wrong, I fucked up and worse than wasting my vote, I cast it for the wrong people. Arpig, I'm not a "righty" dammit [:D]. Now go look at that thread you started about a movie with a woman without wings and tell me if I had the right answer! LOL.

mistoferin -> RE: Universal Healthcare (8/27/2006 9:20:58 PM)
fast reply....thank you to all who responded to my post. Yes, I have an attorney working to help me through the Social Security process....but the fight at this point is really a "just in case" things with the next surgery don't go as planned and I am off of work longer than anticipated. The attorney has told me that the fight could literally take years...and as I hope to return to work in a few more months it would become a moot point. I know that some may see what I posted as whining. I want to make it clear that I posted because there are many people on this thread who are bantering back and forth about the logistics of the current system and the possible changes. I wanted to serve as a reminder that there are indeed human beings with real life plights to be considered also. I apologize if anyone did see it as whiny...and I would like to make it known that although my situation is indeed frustrating, it would not take me long to find another who is far worse off than I. I am extremely grateful for all of the blessings that I do have and it is those blessings that I prefer to concentrate my energies on.

popeye1250 -> RE: Universal Healthcare (8/27/2006 9:35:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Popeye, The issue is intent. If the intention of the US Government was to overthrow Saddam Hussein because they were genuinely concerned for human rights then I would certainly have supported it. I don't subscribe to the school of thought that everyone should be left to their own devices (although I do see some merit in this argument). The problem is though that the US Government did not go into Iraq out of benevolence. In terms of Bush being a Conservative or not, there is a definite difference between what I, as a Briton, would regard as being Conservative politics and how Americans view conservative values. From my background Bush is the Conservative of the century but I appreciate you may not see it this way. Out of interest, where do you feel Bush is out of sync with American conservative values? Regards Gent, for one he doesn't believe in capitalism. In capitalism if you can't get workers at a certain rate you raise that rate until you can, not allow illegal aliens from foreign countries to sneak into our country and work for less money! Bush is charged with protecting our borders and enforcing our immigration laws. (I trust I don't have to list his absolute failures in that area!) Bush still hasn't stopped drugs from comming into the U.S. It CAN be done! Bailing out and forgiving debts of foreign countries. Not getting us out of "NAFTA", "Gatt", the "U.N."(this when somewhat in excess of 80% of Americans want out of it!) and getting us into "CAFTA!" Not going into Pakistan and getting Bin Laden when they know he's there! These are just some of the reasons why Bush isn't a conservative.

Chaingang -> RE: Universal Healthcare (8/27/2006 9:43:55 PM)
Your post is well taken, Erin. But there is a very simple human dignity issue at stake with healthcare and I see zero need to apologize for anything. To the contrary, I applaud your openness and honesty about this deeply personal and troubling matter. A person who is seriously sick or injured is basically at the groveling point in order to live. I think service and funding should be automatic no matter who someone is or what their economic status in other aspects of their life. Universal healthcare means spreading that risk far and wide. Everyone pays the least into it and gets the most out if and only if they need some preventative or emergency care. I just don't see the downside. Let's pay the service providers well, maintain a modicum of administrative personnel and take everyone else out of the equation entirely. It's simply what makes the most sense. Running healthcare as a for profit industry is just nuts.

NorthernGent -> RE: Universal Healthcare (8/28/2006 2:56:25 AM)
mistoferin, You're effectively being held to ransom over your life so a fair enough post. Can you declare yourself bankrupt over there and start again? Regards

NorthernGent -> RE: Universal Healthcare (8/28/2006 3:01:50 AM)
Chaingang, You're looking at it with the well-being of society in mind. Unfortunately, it is a minority view in the survival of the fittest culture we live in. This is a genuine question rather than comment - has there been a time when US society attempted to provide for all of it's citizens? If so, what was the turning point and how did you end up with what you have now? Regards

NorthernGent -> RE: Universal Healthcare (8/28/2006 3:18:37 AM)
Sometimes we forget how good (relatively) we have things over here. In Britain, mistoferin would be able to claim either incapacity or disability allowance. The Social Security department will consult your doctor to ensure it is a genuine case. Payments are instant and not dependent on being out of work for a period of time before you can claim it. As an example, my Uncle claims disability allowance which is £1000 a month ($1890). This money is intended to pay for absolutely everything required to maintain his well-being and dignity. Regards

NorthernGent -> RE: Universal Healthcare (8/28/2006 3:29:02 AM)
Popeye, Hmmm, we have a fundamental disagreement here. Capitalism demands cheap labour to boost profits and the Mexican workers are cheap labour (if my understanding is correct). I'm not sure how you can conclude this is not capitalism personified. I think it would be naive to suggest Bush and his Government are not aware of the drug abuse in poorer socio-economic groups. In fact, they actively ignore it because it's all part of the writing off a section of society attitude they have to life. Why on earth would Bush and Government want to chase around after Osama Bin Laden when they can just wheel out a video every now and again when they need support for their anti-civil rights policies? I'm still not convinced by this benevolent view of American Conservatism - wasn't Reagan a Conservative and he and Thatcher were as thick as thieves. Apparently, they shared a lot of common ground - and she destroyed all collective working class institutions and created a society based on individualism. If he was anything like this and is typical of American Conservatives then it's not a good picture. Regards

Level -> RE: Universal Healthcare (8/28/2006 4:27:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent This is a genuine question rather than comment - has there been a time when US society attempted to provide for all of it's citizens? If so, what was the turning point and how did you end up with what you have now? Regards I'm pretty sure the answer to that is "NO", if you mean universal healthcare. To the best of my memory, the closest we came was in the early part of Clinton's presidency, when he turned the task of coming up with a system to his wife, Hillary. She came back with a monsterous tome of socialistic twists and turns, and promptly turned enough people off to the idea to effectively kill its chances of becoming policy. At least that's how I remember it.

mistoferin -> RE: Universal Healthcare (8/28/2006 6:41:44 AM)
Well, I'm sure it is an option. I have not really seriously looked into it at this point though. Bankruptcy is a pretty big step. Right now, it is all still in limbo. I have all the bills but until I get back to work I have no way of paying on them. I am negotiating with the hospital and they have applied for me to a few different resources for help with the bills. Part of the bill may be written off in the end. I really just have to play the waiting game right now and see how it will all play out before I decide how to proceed. Wish the people who call me all day long demanding their money would be a bit more understanding though. I have been told as was mentioned on this thread, that Social Security denies everyone on the first application. Actually, I've been told they deny the first application and the first appeal pretty much categorically. Seems like a huge waste of money to me. I'm sure it takes a lot of employees to deny all those claims.

Level -> RE: Universal Healthcare (8/28/2006 6:59:41 AM)
I've been through all of that too, erin, I know it's a huge pain (in more ways than one). The hospital here did indeed write most of my bill off, and it's taken a few years to whiddle my other bills down, but I've done it, and regained my credit, as well. Hang in there [:)]

kisshou -> RE: Universal Healthcare (8/28/2006 7:11:59 AM)
I am for universal healthcare and I would vote for a presidential candidate who had it on his agenda.

NorthernGent -> RE: Universal Healthcare (8/28/2006 1:19:31 PM)
mistoferin, Well, good luck with it all and as said they can't get blood out of a stone so bollocks to them. Regards

Chaingang -> RE: Universal Healthcare (8/29/2006 7:04:36 AM)
Quick post: "Has Canada Got the Cure?" http://www.alternet.org/story/40951/ ----- I found this comment down below interesting too: I am in very good health and only go to the doctor when I think I have to which usually means years berween visits. I am also covered by good health insurance and yet I have a complaint and I wonder if it's a common complaint. I had a small problem which required a biopsy and in-office minor surgery. The biopsy was negative but after surgery the problem recurred. The doctor sent me as an out patient to specialists in a hospital. They wanted to perform the same surgery over again. I told them that the original doctor was competent and asked why their operation would have a better result. They hemmed and hawed and said that I needed more tests. I already had several x-rays but they gave me a CAT scan which cost my insurance co big bucks. It's been a couple of years ago and I forget what they diagnosed but I doubt if it was serious or I would have remembered. They had me going back to the hospital time after time seeing different specialists. In the end I just stopped going because after a month or two they couldn't find any thing wrong with me. I think that my insurance is too good and if I ever fall into the clutches of the medical profession again I won't get out. They have no incentive to cure me. I want universal health care so that if I ever get sick they'll want to cure me to make way for another sick person. Bob Reichenbach, Director, The Lincoln Initiative

cloudboy -> RE: Universal Healthcare (8/30/2006 6:37:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip The free marketplace will guarantee companies do the right thing, just like no company would ever make killer tires in a free market place, because they would know if they did, and the world found out about it, they would go out of business. Without government laws businesses will stop trying to push the envelope on what they can get away with. You need to see the film, THE CORPORATION.

Page: << < prev 5 6 7 8 [9]

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875