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Learning to Flog... - 8/27/2006 7:14:35 AM   
CreoleCook


Posts: 321
Joined: 10/9/2005
Status: offline 		Last evening, I went to a local dungeon, and noticed a gentleman wanting to learn how to properly flog his girlfriend, who is experienced as a submissive.  It was quite interesting to see how many Dominants, including myself, who assisted him in learning techniques and styles to assist him with developing his own style. 

During the course of one of his "lessons," I stepped back, and was watching him  trying to develop his rhythm, when another submissive walked up to me, and said, "There's only so much you can learn from a book, before you have to put it to practical experience."  Now while I whole heartedly agreed with the statement, it got me to thinking...

I wonder if anyone wishes to share any of their experiences concerning something you may have seen, or read about... then experienced first hand.

CC
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RE: Learning to Flog... - 8/27/2006 7:37:08 AM   
Tristan


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/31/2004
Status: offline 		Whether a bdsm skill or any other skill, there is nothing like experience.  I spend a lot of time at the library, and learn many things from books.  I usually really screw my first attempt at putting my book knowledge to practical use.  However, it doesn't take long to become proficient.  You just have to be persistant and willing to learn from your mistakes.

(in reply to CreoleCook)
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RE: Learning to Flog... - 8/27/2006 8:00:07 AM   
Viper001


Posts: 55
Joined: 8/8/2005
From: SF, California
Status: offline 		First, thank you for taking the time to provide assistance. It's nice to know that peer-mentoring is alive and well through folks such as yourself. :)

Personally, just about every skill has followed that scenario. See something intriguing, read up on it, seek out some mentoring and fumble through the first few attempts.
Shibari was probably the roughest in the transition from initial interest to semi-competency. A simple concept but required many hours of practice - and enduring the giggling of my partner as she escaped time and time again, lmao. But the learning process was fun, as it should be.

Conversely, as a whipmaker I deal with misconceptions about singletails constantly. It's very routine to have someone order a singletail, be fairly knowledgeable about it because they've read up on the subject, then clip their own ear on the first throw. This might actually be a good thing because they get a "taste" of just how vicious singletails can be and resolve to practice (and get competent coaching) for a few months before trying to "play" with a live body on the other end.

Respectfully,
RFJM


(in reply to CreoleCook)
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RE: Learning to Flog... - 8/27/2006 8:12:33 AM   
diamonddreamlove


Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline 		Smiles as a sub i am always glad to hear a Dom getting instructions on how to do something rather than just jumping in and breaking their toy!  Even the experienced Doms i know take the time to do this and quite frankly that is a quality i look for in a play partner.  Thanks for taking the time to teach and the time to learn and knowing the difference between the times.

_____________________________

"Many attempts to communicate are nullified by saying too much." Robert Greenleaf

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RE: Learning to Flog... - 8/27/2006 8:14:09 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Yup, I agree.  As with any skill, one needs to practice to be good.

(in reply to diamonddreamlove)
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RE: Learning to Flog... - 8/27/2006 8:58:07 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreoleCook

Last evening, I went to a local dungeon, and noticed a gentleman wanting to learn how to properly flog his girlfriend, who is experienced as a submissive. It was quite interesting to see how many Dominants, including myself, who assisted him in learning techniques and styles to assist him with developing his own style.

During the course of one of his "lessons," I stepped back, and was watching him trying to develop his rhythm, when another submissive walked up to me, and said, "There's only so much you can learn from a book, before you have to put it to practical experience." Now while I whole heartedly agreed with the statement, it got me to thinking...

I wonder if anyone wishes to share any of their experiences concerning something you may have seen, or read about... then experienced first hand.



Psychology dissertations, the rope arts and first-aid are the only genres of literature that have substantive reading to real-world application for me. I have skimmed through many books written specifically about BDSM in general, and found much of the philosophy espoused within them to be somewhat public service oriented. Aside of technical instruction—which usually is best given in the real world—I often encourage those who have a calling (forgive my borrowing from religious parlance) to pursue their own convictions on the matter and pocket little nuggets of truth they may find along the way in word or whisper.

Having said that, I think it's important to comment upon the relevance of spontaneous motive in "the lifestyle". Have you come to enjoy dominance or submission naturally and of your own volition, or is it somewhat of a kinky hobby? Gleaning all that you are from books tends to make one—fittingly—a paper master. You can learn only so much from books. What is more important is thinking for yourself, even if it's not in line with the community goosestep.




< Message edited by amayos -- 8/27/2006 9:07:52 AM >

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RE: Learning to Flog... - 8/27/2006 10:05:42 AM   
Steelriven


Posts: 300
Joined: 12/26/2005
Status: offline 		I'm a very curious person. I find a new subject and tend to devour all the knowledge as fast as I can about it. But it still doesn't mean I know how to do it. Just cause I read about ridding a horse, doesn't mean I won't fall off a bunch of times when I do ride one.

I'd love to see some one being intructed on the use of a flogger. Hmm maybe I should look up work shops in my area.

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steelriven who's just a lil_twisted

-Don't asume, instead ask.

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RE: Learning to Flog... - 8/27/2006 10:39:43 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		Some may be technically proficient with a flogger, yet, be eons behind someone who gets the serene artistry and truth of flogging. Someone who can clear the sky of dark clouds as she flies. The consciousness of a Dom is not in the pattern of the falls landing. Yep, if you want to create a George Plimpton, teach them flogging without them getting IT. I want the submissive to find a glowing green, kryptonite in the ice cavern  that weakens, yet makes her feel like SuperWoman flying powerfully thought the heavens when it is taken away.


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You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to Steelriven)
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RE: Learning to Flog... - 8/27/2006 4:32:31 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreoleCook

I wonder if anyone wishes to share any of their experiences concerning something you may have seen, or read about... then experienced first hand.



The first thing that comes to mind is pain. Oftentimes this is glorified in fictional tales and other books about the lifestyle, however, the reality is that many of the things described can be uncomfortable and it is impossible to gauge what your tolerance is until you experience it first hand. What I've learned through my encounters is the role mental focus and personal will plays during a scene. The more determined I am to endure for the person administering the discomfort, the more likely my pain will morph into something highly pleasurable.

porcelaine

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His will; my fate.

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RE: Learning to Flog... - 8/28/2006 8:49:35 AM   
Viper001


Posts: 55
Joined: 8/8/2005
From: SF, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Some may be technically proficient with a flogger, yet, be eons behind someone who gets the serene artistry and truth of flogging.


True enough. But one has to start *somewhere*, no? Feedback from a multitude of partners/friends indicates that tails constantly wrapping to strike the face, impacting on tailbones/spleen/spine, etc etc etc, prevent them from achieving any type of "subspace" or "energy exchange". Technical proficiency also provides me (us) with the freedom to concentrate on the artistry, as opposed to the technique.

Respectfully,
RFJM


(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Learning to Flog... - 8/28/2006 4:57:28 PM   
ladylexington


Posts: 117
Joined: 6/7/2005
Status: offline 		[/quote]

Technical proficiency also provides me (us) with the freedom to concentrate on the artistry, as opposed to the technique.

[/quote]

I agree. A pro Domme with impeccable technique taught me to flog and florentine. Without her guidance and hours of practice, I never would have found my own rhythms.


_____________________________

If you must gamble your lives sexually, don't play a lone hand too much. -- Mark Twain

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Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Learning to Flog... - 8/28/2006 6:59:49 PM   
beenwhipped


Posts: 191
Joined: 5/14/2006
Status: offline 		I realy would like to learn to flog myself. i have read a couple books, but i refuse to flog anyone without having an experienced person there to stop me if anything at all goes wrong.

it is my preference that i have an experienced sub on the recieving end also. that way i can get feedback from that side as well.

(in reply to ladylexington)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Learning to Flog... - 8/28/2006 7:40:37 PM   
Shadowrun


Posts: 27
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		I am reminded about advice a company VP gave me about the 5 levels of learing:

1.Unconscious Incompetence (you don't even know you don't know what your doing)
2.Conscious Incompetence  (You at least know you don't know what you are doing)
3.Conscious Competence   (You know what you are doing if you think about it)
4. Unconscious Competence  (Thinking is no longer required you just know it)

I feel I have become pretty experienced with flogging. It seems to be the skill most of us start out learning. The best thing you may get out of a book is what are some of the wrong ways to do it. (e.g. don't hit the neck, spine, lower back over the kidneys, don't wrap.) This will at least make you a little safer I think at that point you just have to start playing, but just keep in mind you really don't know what you doing. So use lighter floggers go lighter until you have gained some experience, if you stay at the light side of things in play, you should be OK if you make mistakes. You may end up with a scene that doesn't work, but most likely no real hard feelings from partners.

I am a switch so there is also great advantage on being on the other side. Even if you can't see what someone is doing the feeling sometimes is enough to give you ideas when you are on the other side. The weird thing I have discovered is you seem to go from that state where you always felt like you didn't know what you are doing to, wait, I really seem to have a clue. The process of learning is gradual. It is best to try some stuff cautiously, and also watch and talk to people.

I have now reached the point that I can do both 4 count and 6 count florentine flogging (although I still have to think about the 6) and can use heavier floggers (although I still prefer the more sensual). Mostly it has been years of trial and error, going to demos, randomly asking advice and just paying attention. And as long as I don't get cocky and think I completely know what I am doing I do pretty well. Here is the point that other people talked about that you can start focussing on artistry.

I would just say just stay in that state where you keep telling yourself you don't what you are doing, and you will probably learn more. Just don't ever think just because you saw a few demos you know what you are doing, and you should stay reasonablly safe.

(in reply to beenwhipped)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Learning to Flog... - 8/28/2006 7:59:24 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear CreoleCook, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I can honestly say that I have mentored a good quantity of individuals, given demonstrations and presentations on flogging.
 
My advice for novices is keeping it simple and pure strokes.  Adding strokes up to the figure-8 is for later but, so many are in a hurry.  Takes patience with one's self and with the tool.  Each flogger has its own voice, even though they might look identical.  I also show how to create variety of sensations with one flogger.  I also recommend not buying cheap stuff.  It is better to get one good flogger and slowly build the collection.  Follow through is another thing that is learned.  So many stop the stroke on impact and that is fine but, it has a totally different energy having follow through.  Novices can also use their thumb as a sight per se, much like target shooting a handgun, if the thumb is pointed to a shoulder it will 99.9% land on that shoulder and move the thumb away from the body when it returns so it doesn't return back into the face.  I also show with a cane in their hand how little wrist movement there is required.  Weight throws people's aim off so, cane in hand using it as a pointer works well.  Those who fence are rapid to get the idea.
 
I've written a lot on the matter of flogging and put the strokes and tips onto a CD-Rom for those who come through as students.  It helps for students to have notes to refer back to, so they can practice on their own.
 
Recording, if possible, helps a lot.  You can see how the strokes go and find the trouble spots of the techniques.  It is amazing to watch yourself flog--but, it helps translate what you do into a media that everybody can see and in slow motion and pause.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs
 
 

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RE: Learning to Flog... - 8/29/2006 3:51:01 AM   
CreoleCook


Posts: 321
Joined: 10/9/2005
Status: offline 		Okay, for some reason, Maybe I should have changed the topic to "New Experience"... since this thread went from My assisting another in learning the techniques of flogging, to speaking strictly about flogging techniques....

I actually wanted to hear if anybody wanted to share new experiences, and how they got to the point of trying something new, like the gentleman I assisted the other evening.

CC

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RE: Learning to Flog... - 8/30/2006 8:07:44 PM   
Whiterabbit0117


Posts: 68
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

  I am reminded about advice a company VP gave me about the 5 levels of learing:

1.Unconscious Incompetence (you don't even know you don't know what your doing)
2.Conscious Incompetence  (You at least know you don't know what you are doing)
3.Conscious Competence   (You know what you are doing if you think about it)
4. Unconscious Competence  (Thinking is no longer required you just know it)  


A very good summary of the steps.  However, the last step may occur at a step less than full mastery of the tool or technique  The true mastery is when you aren't even thinking of the physical act and can simply react to your read of the bottom's reaction.  We tend to get too caught up in the physical skills and lose sight of why we are doing it in the first place.   How many scenes have we seen that were technically perfect, yet there was never a connection between the players.  and compare to the ones that are technically less than perfect, but achieve the goals of the players.  For example I am far from a master of a single tail, but I can accomplish my goal with what I can do with it.


_____________________________

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's a powerful thing, to be at the edge of something, to be at the edge of human ability"
Craig Childs

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RE: Learning to Flog... - 8/30/2006 8:18:42 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I'll be honest.  The only way to learn how to flog a human is to flog a human.

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RE: Learning to Flog... - 8/30/2006 8:23:48 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I'll be honest.  The only way to learn how to flog a human is to flog a human.


Makes sense to me. And that way you can get immediate feedback on how you are doing.

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Boycott Whales!

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RE: Learning to Flog... - 8/30/2006 8:26:40 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		While it may be glorious to observe such a thing, each and every is at least some difference.......................

You must take the risk, sure.


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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Learning to Flog... - 8/30/2006 10:51:13 PM   
MasterOKN


Posts: 7
Joined: 6/15/2006
Status: offline 		It's great to know experienced practitioners research new things and take the time to practice them. It's good for us new folks to read and learn from those that have past before us...lol. It's amazing the amount of bad advice there is out there and it's hard sometimes to sort through it when you're new. These kinds of discussions really help to guide the less experienced in fumbling around in a maze. Thanks.

(in reply to CreoleCook)
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