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Bottom of the Food Chain - 8/28/2006 5:57:09 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Why do the majority of cultures (in the past and some present) see the woman as dispensable or nothing more than chattel?  I would think the portal of future generations would be more revered.

This is not a feminist question but one spurned by another very well written post on another culture. It just got me thinking about African cultures and Indian cultures as well as the Middle Eastern cultures.  In short.. Wazzup you guys???? ‘Splain it to me, you Lucys you.

I’m interested in hearing form those males in those cultures as to what the purpose of such control is on the women.  It can’t be the “seed” argument as men spread their seed more like dandelion seed than anything productive.  Maybe other cultures are different and it makes sense.  I’m sincerely curious.  Thank you for your consideration.


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RE: Bottom of the Food Chain - 8/28/2006 8:09:13 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		Because males are phyiscally bigger and stronger(sometimes) it is seen as superior for whatever reason. Also most men have a hard time passing up a beautiful woman and they see it as a weakness, of course they can't admit its a weakness so they blame it on the women for making them feel that way. Their own hormones are telling them to be attracted to this woman, yet they blame the woman. Make any sense? Nope none at all.

Men can't be seen as weak in any capacity so they have to blame someone and that's where women come in. Women are evil whores who MAKE men do evil things, because men don't do evil things on their own, how can they? They are closer to God (haha). After all Eve fucked over Adam, didn't she? Although she never forced that apple down his throat and he KNEW it was evil to eat it, but yet he did it anyways. Adam wasn't very bright IMHO, then again I don't believe in the story anyway.

I heard on the news this weekend a study was done that showed that women who work are more likely to have affairs and divorces. They didn't mention that their marriages were in trouble from problems between the couple and that the job most likely had NOTHING to do with it. Did they do a study in comparsion to men who work and their having affairs and divorces? Nope, they just want the 1950's to come back so the ladies will go home so they can be the *bread winners*.

Also alot of women don't mind walking in a man's shadow, its what they've been taught and they are happy campers being the follower. I think some men see this as a silent admission of inferiority. I on the other hand don't follow in any man's shadow, I walk by his side as an equal, if he doesn't like it he can get the hell away from me.

Just my thoughts

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






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RE: Bottom of the Food Chain - 8/28/2006 9:44:17 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline 		I'll take a guess at this.

The genders have evoloved to assume certain roles -- for example, males are better with skillls essential for hunting while females are better at interpreting non-verbal cues because that helps care for infants. As the hunters the men also "hunted" other humans in warfare while the women tended the camps and kids. As victors in wars the men would claim property of the losers, so their women became slaves and property.

So as hunters and warriors the males were dominating the clans, societies or whatever social structure they had. The leaders would keep women in harems as a sign of social status; even the merely wealthy (or good hunters) would have more than one woman because they could affort to feed them, thus further establishing perception of women as property in the society. Although there were some women warriors/leaders, they were the exception and not the norm -- after all, it makes no more sense for women to be hunters than it does for men to raise infants because our DNA ain't optimized for those roles.

That's my take on it anyway.

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RE: Bottom of the Food Chain - 8/28/2006 10:12:59 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Then what is it when a woman gets raped in a ME country, her family kills HER not the perp?  Even though the perp may have been a family member.

When I was in college, I had an Iranian boyfriend who asked me to marry him. In the bargan, I would be  his "first wife" (sogali), be taken home to mamma who was hooked on hashish, to  melt into annonymity  with his family of 10 siblings and of course I would have had to convert to Islam.

I politely declined.   

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RE: Bottom of the Food Chain - 8/28/2006 10:14:23 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Then what is it when a woman gets raped in a ME country, her family kills HER not the perp?  Even though the perp may have been a family member.

When I was in college, I had an Iranian boyfriend who asked me to marry him. In the bargan, I would be  his "first wife" (sogali), be taken home to mamma who was hooked on hashish, to  melt into annonymity  with his family of 10 siblings and of course I would have had to convert to Islam.

I politely declined.   


Because some of those folks are very backwards.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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RE: Bottom of the Food Chain - 8/28/2006 10:20:05 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I kind of liked being the raiser of the children AND the hunter myself.

Actually Lotus, with all of the reading I have done I tend to place alot of blame of the roman catholic church wayyyyyyyy back when. As in back when they decided that Jesus was celibate and could not have dirtied his wanker by diddling something as lowly as a woman. I think it was probably a power struggle of sorts. Of course that is my own little take on the history of the situation.
 I think that now, depending on the woman, it can be irrelevant. I run a shop with 4 different men of vastly different ages and have found that, for the most part, they are okay with taking orders from me. I don't create a fuss about it and neither do they. (though I have threatened them with an electric cattle prod and the buggy whip that mysteriously appeared upstairs.......)


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RE: Bottom of the Food Chain - 8/28/2006 10:20:32 AM   
Estring


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Then what is it when a woman gets raped in a ME country, her family kills HER not the perp?  Even though the perp may have been a family member.

When I was in college, I had an Iranian boyfriend who asked me to marry him. In the bargan, I would be  his "first wife" (sogali), be taken home to mamma who was hooked on hashish, to  melt into annonymity  with his family of 10 siblings and of course I would have had to convert to Islam.

I politely declined.   


Because in these cultures, honor is everything. Even more important than what is right. A woman being raped dishonors the family, so the solution is to kill her. That way, honor is restored. Quite the culture.

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RE: Bottom of the Food Chain - 8/28/2006 10:22:50 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		As a mere male I think a very powerful reason is atavistic ,ooh er missus, ie in really early days men simply did control things by force, and this has just got built in to their behaviour patterns, particularly where sex is involved. The odd thing tho' is that its not true of all men. When I first came across the word uxurious, I think I've spelt it right, I could not believe such a thing existed.
But it DUZ. Not going to tell those that dont know, what it means. Look it up an see !

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RE: Bottom of the Food Chain - 8/28/2006 10:27:01 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I kind of liked being the raiser of the children AND the hunter myself.

Actually Lotus, with all of the reading I have done I tend to place alot of blame of the roman catholic church wayyyyyyyy back when. As in back when they decided that Jesus was celibate and could not have dirtied his wanker by diddling something as lowly as a woman. I think it was probably a power struggle of sorts. Of course that is my own little take on the history of the situation.
I think that now, depending on the woman, it can be irrelevant. I run a shop with 4 different men of vastly different ages and have found that, for the most part, they are okay with taking orders from me. I don't create a fuss about it and neither do they. (though I have threatened them with an electric cattle prod and the buggy whip that mysteriously appeared upstairs.......)



LOL at "mysteriously appeared"......
 
I've worked for two women (including my current employer), and never had a problem with it. I have been turned down for a job because a female employer didn't think a man could work for her, the mo-ron.
 
I despise down to my cuticles any dip, male or female, that thinks one sex is better than the other.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Bottom of the Food Chain - 8/28/2006 10:28:39 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		People find a social order and survival means that works and they stick with it.
There are several differences in the physical bodies of men and women that make them natural choices for certain job functions. depending on the major challenges of that social group they end up valueing some tasks over others and the status of a person is determeined by what they contribute.

In places where land is plentyfull and there is no need to "fight" for resources the values are different than in places where they are scarce and competition is fierce.

What a society finds value in makes alot of difference in how women are valued.

Also what seems like chattle to us is seen far differentl through the eyes of someone raised in that culture. arranged marriages may seem barbaric but in a land where marriage is still a political and economic contract first and formost and love is ranked well bellow that, arranged marriage places a high value on women in terms of their own culture, from the outside it seems cheap because we place an unlimited value on a life.


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RE: Bottom of the Food Chain - 8/28/2006 10:34:31 AM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		Let's look at it from a self-preservation and continuity perspective. 

A part of our programming is wanting to have our family line continue.

A woman can only have a certain number of children.  A man can have any number he wants.

Therefore, a woman with multiple husbands can have exactly the same number of children as with one, but a man with multiple wives can have that many more kids.

A successful (rich, good hunter, whatever it may be) man can provide for multiple women. 

His line will benefit therefrom.

A successful woman can provide for multiple men.

Her line will not benefit therefrom.

So, men started marrying multiple women if they could, women would not.

That developed into a societal standard, which relegated women to an inferiour role.

DAMN they were good!

Yours,


benji

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RE: Bottom of the Food Chain - 8/28/2006 10:35:53 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		benji for that, you shall be spanked!

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Bottom of the Food Chain - 8/28/2006 10:37:28 AM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		Are you following me?  Cuz I like it!

Yours,


benji

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RE: Bottom of the Food Chain - 8/28/2006 10:52:49 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Some of the practicers seem so rediculous.. there are some cultures the hack off a woman's clitori and blame the Woman for the spread of the AIDS virus, marry and impregnant young firls who's bodies can't  safely  bear a child lest it rip them and creat a  tear up their bladder so that constatly drips and the men feel  it's the woman's fault.  ..others that dress them in yards of clothing to where they cannot be seen and have to request a male to take them to do simple shopping..

Some cultures are torture for a woman.  Aside from stength.. they are equal.
We have it realitivily "made" in the US... even if there are still double standards here.  I'm really interested in the rational of cultures outside of ours. I tell you.. I could just smack them at this point.. There has GOT to be a logical reason other than "it's tradition".

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 8/28/2006 11:15:47 AM >

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RE: Bottom of the Food Chain - 8/28/2006 11:04:19 AM   
NastyDaddy


Posts: 957
Joined: 9/8/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Then what is it when a woman gets raped in a ME country, her family kills HER not the perp?  Even though the perp may have been a family member.


You are misinformed. Rape victims are not killed.... unwed sex and promiscuity among women are considered dishonorable in the middle east. They believe the promiscuous woman's family can restore their honor by the death of the dishonorable female family member.

Not sure if you've noticed, but Islamic upbringing and "teachings" tend to encourage martyrdom. In the middle east and other Islamic nations, promiscuity and unwed sex by Allah's "pure" babygirls are considered to be dishonorable "liberated western world infidel whore slut" characteristics, and are not looked upon as "liberated females".

According to their beliefs and culture... pretty much ANY insults to Allah justify martyrs, whether the martyr volunteers their life or not. They see it as the actions denote the voluntary martyr status.... if you go against Allah's will and their culture, you essentially constitute a martyr waiting for a place to happen.

If you have not been there and walked in their sands and observed their culture(s).... who are you to "generalize" their ways as being the way their males "want things"? National Geographic is no substitute for real world knowledge... go visit and observe.  

Imposing your westerm world logic on them is actually about as fair as them imposing their middle eastern logic on you.


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RE: Bottom of the Food Chain - 8/28/2006 11:14:03 AM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Some cultures are torture for a woman. 



And some are torture for men, or for both, or for the poor, or whatever.

I would think that everything is relative - if we go in and tell them they are being tortured, then yes, we will be able to convince them.  Just as I could convince lots of people here that democracy is torture - gotta love propaganda.

However, to these women, and most men there, this is the way the world is.  It is neither good nor bad, it is the way it is.

How easy is it to sit across the pond and frown on the men there, saying they are cruel, without examining our own culture, challenging our norms, and asking why we have to wear pants?  I mean, it can't just be tradition, right?

Culture is just that - the way the people are brought up, engrained ideas which have been proven to work in some way in the past.  Over time it changes, but for now, both parties have accepted their roles, until we march in and explain why they are wrong and we are right.

Yours,


benji

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Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

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RE: Bottom of the Food Chain - 8/28/2006 11:17:59 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		Ignorance and fear is what it is. They fear women though they will not admit it and that is why they treat them the way that they do. Some men in this country (US) think that way as well. A woman has no dominion over anything but children(so some of the religious texts spew), the male rules the rest..but thats only if she lets him.

Women can hunt just fine, I know I can and as far as taking care of babies, I've known quite a few males who did a better job than alot of women. I can't stand taking care of children, I'd rather go to war. Its all conditioning folks.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






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RE: Bottom of the Food Chain - 8/28/2006 11:18:06 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Okay, Lotus, I found the answer for you.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060828/ap_on_fe_st/bad_dog_driver

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to gooddogbenji)
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RE: Bottom of the Food Chain - 8/28/2006 11:19:39 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		There are things that need to be questioned.

There are things that are catagoricaly wrong across the board.  And I hold those that particiapte in them accountable.  I want them to look at themselves and ask "Why" also.  It's interesting that not one of those cultures are speaking up yet.. I'll be anxious to hear from them.

_____________________________

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I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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RE: Bottom of the Food Chain - 8/28/2006 11:22:29 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Okay, Lotus, I found the answer for you.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060828/ap_on_fe_st/bad_dog_driver


If you cannot participate in an intelligent conversation intelligently... just don't... ok?

Or as Ron White says "Next time you have a thought?.. just let it go".


_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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