An obversation on the vagaries of humans

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IronBear -> An obversation on the vagaries of humans (8/28/2006 1:40:52 PM)
This is not a rant, but merely an observation following a conversation with a close friend who does not participate on the Forums but is an avid reader... It is an obversation on the vagaries of humans. How strange to note that after being an intergral part of one section of an ecommunity for some time that as soon as you change your lifestyle, the majority who whilst you were a part of the lifestyle would respond regularly to your posts and even seek you out for comment or advise and following your dramatic change, even after a carefully explanation, ignore you completely, even in other areas of the community. It says much for those who stay friends be they sub/sl;ave or Domminant. It certainly give thought to the point of remaining in such a community when people who have always shown level headedness can not fathom or even read a simple explanation and that even though one changes direction, the core elements which made you become part of your original lifestyle are still there and you have said as much. It arrears that those who now turn their backs either don't know how to associate or deal with you or are unable to separate between some one who runns and changes their lable at the first hint of an argument and one who after months of struggling with several philisophical points found that changing lables was the only honourable thing to do. Perhaps the kindest thing to think is that many who now turn their backs are shamed by some one who had the guts to know that it was time to make personal changes and did so publically with an explanation so as to advise others of said changes (an honourable act too)... Ahh well something to ponder during these cold winter nights with a hot toddy and a good cigar.......perhaps the time spent in forums and lists would be better spent on other persuits..

mnottertail -> RE: An obversation on the vagaries of humans (8/28/2006 1:43:52 PM)
Jesus, man.........did you give up fosters as well? It must be warming up there now, isn't it? Aren't you in early spring? Ron

seeksfemslave -> RE: An obversation on the vagaries of humans (8/28/2006 1:49:56 PM)
Iron Bear this too vague. Spell it out a bit but be brief. lol...it seems ecocommunity is the key word. The SUN is spewing out more solar flares you know. Does that help or hinder? Mnotter...its just possible he quaffed one to many of the golden nectar. Fosters...or may be just doesnt give a 4X,,,I dont know.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: An obversation on the vagaries of humans (8/28/2006 1:56:45 PM)
It's online. Things really don't tend to affect us- people can be best friends, absolute slaves, mortal enemies...and then two weeks later they are off carrying out whatever new important thing there is to do. If I left this entire site tomorrow, and never returned, maybe half a dozen would occasionally think of me, maybe 3 would actually remember my name and some of who I am. It's the nature of online communication, it's all just sitting here "permanently" yet it all moves like tides and if you don't stay with them, you cease to exist. It's part of why so many of the same topics get repeated. In your particular case Iron, I think you're learning some of the nature of what us "outsiders" have always experienced, and perhaps can see a bit more of those reasons why approaches are taken as they are. It's also why I personally take very little in stock whenever girls on here start calling eachother "sissie" or people start flirting, or getting pissed. Give it a month and things will likely be completely turned around or forgotten. They say the Pacific has no memory- I think we can see the internet as the worldwide Pacific web.

Level -> RE: An obversation on the vagaries of humans (8/28/2006 1:56:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear This is not a rant, but merely an observation following a conversation with a close friend who does not participate on the Forums but is an avid reader... It is an obversation on the vagaries of humans. How strange to note that after being an intergral part of one section of an ecommunity for some time that as soon as you change your lifestyle, the majority who whilst you were a part of the lifestyle would respond regularly to your posts and even seek you out for comment or advise and following your dramatic change, even after a carefully explanation, ignore you completely, even in other areas of the community. It says much for those who stay friends be they sub/sl;ave or Domminant. It certainly give thought to the point of remaining in such a community when people who have always shown level headedness can not fathom or even read a simple explanation and that even though one changes direction, the core elements which made you become part of your original lifestyle are still there and you have said as much. It arrears that those who now turn their backs either don't know how to associate or deal with you or are unable to separate between some one who runns and changes their lable at the first hint of an argument and one who after months of struggling with several philisophical points found that changing lables was the only honourable thing to do. Perhaps the kindest thing to think is that many who now turn their backs are shamed by some one who had the guts to know that it was time to make personal changes and did so publically with an explanation so as to advise others of said changes (an honourable act too)... Ahh well something to ponder during these cold winter nights with a hot toddy and a good cigar.......perhaps the time spent in forums and lists would be better spent on other persuits.. emphasis added Some don't know how to make a difference between the two, IB. Some might have similar thoughts, but fear them, thus attaching fear to another that changes directions. And there are the elitists; you're good enough for them, as long as you fit their criteria. One would have to wonder if such folks were truly friends or not; truly open and understanding, or not.

MmakeMme -> RE: An obversation on the vagaries of humans (8/28/2006 1:58:36 PM)
I get it, IB, and agree. Sort of like fair-weather friends. The Internet affords anonymity and perhaps makes some feel as though there is no "real" connection or responsibility to maintain online friendships. It's more difficult to disappear from RT relationships but typing in this little box could make some feel less connected.

IronBear -> RE: An obversation on the vagaries of humans (8/28/2006 1:59:13 PM)
G'day Ron, no mate but we are still in Winter spring will spring in September. Mind you we appear to be continuing the droubt and the bush fire season is upon us. rains should start in Summer in abouit late October... The Fosters is still here awaiting you.. Greetings seeksfemslave. Do specifics really matter? My observations can apply to anyone in any lifestyle in any ecommunity. On my part I did a few weeks ago leave the Gorean Lifestyle and have embarked upon a journey into the rich one of the Victorian Lifestyles, of which I have firsthand knowledge from my childhood... However this is not the point for it would be a grave mistake to immagine that I have or would ever post as I have seeking pity or consoling that is absolutely against my nature as any here who know me could attest. I have merely commented upon the vagaries of human nature, from a psychologist's view if you like..

Lashra -> RE: An obversation on the vagaries of humans (8/28/2006 2:02:43 PM)
My sub had this happen when he left the Gorean lifestyle to pursue a new life with me. His friends basically turned their back on him saying he was a fake. As I told him real friends accept you for who you are, not who they want you to be. Good luck, ~Lashra

IronBear -> RE: An obversation on the vagaries of humans (8/28/2006 2:05:37 PM)
You are correct LA. The only area in which you are in error is your assumption that I am just learning this lesson. It is one I learned long ago and not in the protection of the internet either.. That lesson gave me the courage and ability to live outside the square for almost my entire adult life and hold a greater value on friendships.... This just seemed to be a suitable thread to remind people of the flightiness of cyber contacts. IB

seeksfemslave -> RE: An obversation on the vagaries of humans (8/28/2006 2:09:56 PM)
IronBear others seem to have understood your first post but I didnt. I GUESSED you had changed either pro/ anti global warming. Thats what it seemed to me. Humans is humans...takes allsorts..somebody once said <be true to yourself>...that seems to me to be useful advice....not so easy to live up to either.

darkinshadows -> RE: An obversation on the vagaries of humans (8/28/2006 2:11:50 PM)
Greetings IB I have no understanding on what your post is about specifically - so all I can respond to is on a personal view. There will always be people one counts as friends, and who call themselves friends, who - when the going gets tough, are suddenly not the friends one thought them to be. It happens, both online and off. But the people who do stand by ones side, through any decision, are the people that truely matter. Online or off. The others, in reality - do not matter - and are not worth ones love and friendship. They lose. And those that they left behind gain by learning exactly the person they are - and finding closer and more understanding relationships. Peace and Rapture

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: An obversation on the vagaries of humans (8/28/2006 2:21:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darkinshadows I have no understanding on what your post is about specifically - so all I can respond to is on a personal view. My guess is that it's based from his announcement in the gorean forum that he would no longer take the label of "gorean master" nor consider his relationships gorean-centric.

darkinshadows -> RE: An obversation on the vagaries of humans (8/28/2006 2:33:35 PM)
I havent seen that Em so thanks. Well, all I can say is that if people turn their backs - that is their loss. IB is an outstanding dominant and friend. Gorean or not - makes no difference. He is still a man of integrity and manners who has my respect and admiration - whatever style He and His household decide to live. Peace and Rapture

twicehappy -> RE: An obversation on the vagaries of humans (8/28/2006 4:40:26 PM)
IronBear what you speak is sad but true. Your true friends both online and real time will realize you are still the same man they know and respect. Remember a real friend will help you hide the bodies, lol.

Oumae -> RE: An obversation on the vagaries of humans (8/28/2006 5:00:39 PM)
Some people seem to really want people to fit into neat little boxes and I don't think many do. Once you are yours are happy that is what matters. Warm wishes to you. Oumae

Mercnbeth -> RE: An observation on the vagaries of humans (8/28/2006 5:02:38 PM)
IB, Being the wise man that you are I'm sure you know that we are all the sum of our experiences. What doesn't evolve becomes extinct be it a species or an individual. The ability to continue to seek, even if others believe you have achieved nirvana, indicates not only an open mind but an intelligent mind. Those left in the tide pools never know they are missing an entire ocean of experience. They wonder what happened to the big fish that once graced their presence. The only way to rationalize their limited existence is to denigrate the possibility that there is indeed a bigger world outside the narrow band of their existence. You didn't change. Keep in mind, they didn't either. Be grateful you have the opportunity to see them as they truly are. Be well my friend!

outlier -> RE: An observation on the vagaries of humans (8/28/2006 9:10:05 PM)
IronBear, As my name indicates I have never been one to value a position in the middle of the pack, or the acclaim of the crowd. Part of this is natural inclination on my part. But part of this is something that I was exposed to at a young age. Said a long time ago by a wise man: "The unexamined life is not worth the living" Socrates That does not mean it is easy, or that it will bring you the cheers of the crowd. Or that the masses will understand your motives, too often they will ascribe to you their own. But is does mean (As Merc & Beth have said with more poetry than I could summon) you are better for growing than for being afraid to grow. In my mind I am better off, and I believe you will be too, with a smaller number of true friends. Quality far outweighs quantity in friendship, even cyber friends. I would be honored to be counted as one of your friends here. Outlier

Kedicat -> RE: An obversation on the vagaries of humans (8/29/2006 1:02:04 AM)
People can grow apart or grow together. It seems an obvious inability to grow when you abandon a friend who changes their path. Sure you may not be as close on some common grounds. But why would they have lost their value to you, just because they have struck out in a new direction? Of course if it is a totally negative direction in your opinion, it could be hard to keep on relating for long.

IronBear -> RE: An obversation on the vagaries of humans (8/29/2006 7:17:05 AM)
Often enough it is a one sided afair. With one party devaluing you for leaving the fold and the other party valuing the other for what they are. of course there may be some re-evaluation of those who turn their backs too .... But then again those who turn their backs because one of their fold has left to commence the next stage of the journey through life will see those who have turned their backs in a different light and that too is both healthy and part of a learning curve. IB

juliaoceania -> RE: An obversation on the vagaries of humans (8/29/2006 7:39:09 AM)
No matter how you identify yourself, I enjoy your posts immensely and I liked you as a Gorean Master, I like you now too... People who want to judge you based upon a two dimensional thing like a message board, and feel they want to categorize you and put you down really are not important, it shows they have very little going on in their life to keep tabs on you in a negative sort of way. You seem like a positive person from what I have read, soar with the eagles and let the worms live where they are. It takes very little effort to try to put people down, it takes a lot more honor and integrity to be a big person that builds people up... all I have ever seen from you is building people up, a lot of people aren't like you....If others do not want to be friendly with you because of how you label yourself, well I would wonder how good of friends they would make anyone. Just my thoughts.

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