Plane Crash

Plane Crash (Full Version)

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cuddleheart50 -> Plane Crash (8/28/2006 5:53:12 PM)
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/georgia/news-article.aspx?storyid=63630 I was on this same kind of plane in Lexington 5 months ago...it makes my heart skip several beats.

pahunkboy -> RE: Plane Crash (8/28/2006 5:54:52 PM)
i seen that. i wonder if teh lone survivor -is here for a reason, if he/she has any guilt. i never survived a planecrash yet.

WyrdRich -> RE: Plane Crash (8/28/2006 5:57:02 PM)
This looks like a horrible human error. It doesn't matter what you are taking off in if the runway is just too short.

KatyLied -> RE: Plane Crash (8/28/2006 6:19:41 PM)
The lone survivor is the First Officer of the airplane. I read that although air traffic controllers are not responsible for making sure that the airplanes are on the correct runways, they are adding another air traffic controller at that airport. Also there was recently some construction going on at the runways and they are thinking that may have contributed to the "human error."

cuddleheart50 -> RE: Plane Crash (8/28/2006 6:22:15 PM)
This airport is only two hours from where I live. And I was on that same kind of plane 5 months ago at that same airport....I almost threw up when I read this.

KatyLied -> RE: Plane Crash (8/28/2006 6:24:11 PM)
It is an unfortunate accident.

gooddogbenji -> RE: Plane Crash (8/28/2006 6:39:17 PM)
Normally, when I fly with any member of my family, we joke about crashing, and what would happen. Being on the same kind of plane at the same airport is about as likely as driving the same kind of car past the same spot as where an accident happened within 5 months. If it happens, it happens. Meh. Yours, benji

StrongButKind -> RE: Plane Crash (8/28/2006 6:42:03 PM)
Let it remind us all that all life is risk: best to enjoy every day. I can't control whether I have 30 days left or 30,000, but I can be sure either way I enjoy 100% of them.

pahunkboy -> RE: Plane Crash (8/28/2006 6:42:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50 This airport is only two hours from where I live. And I was on that same kind of plane 5 months ago at that same airport....I almost threw up when I read this. in high school- my best friends mom , she "just" missed her flight. flight 191 out of Chicago. turns out- many on flight 191 are dead. so- it wasnt her turn.' this was in the 80s.

pahunkboy -> RE: Plane Crash (8/28/2006 6:45:39 PM)
http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-aa191.shtml <--the flight she was supposed to be on

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Plane Crash (8/28/2006 9:26:45 PM)
I was taught about that flight and the reason why it crashed. There is always much to learn from tragedy.

NastyDaddy -> RE: Plane Crash (8/28/2006 11:07:36 PM)
It's amazing the crew lined up on an unlit 3500 ft runway for a predawn departure... especially since this shorter unlit runway crosses the lighted 7000 ft runway which is also clearly marked on the approach plates the pilots have in the cockpit. They should also have had in their possession the most up to date NOTAMs (Notices to Airmen) regarding airport construction. Despite repaving and re-routing of some taxiways, the runway lights should have been glaringly evident as they rolled down the unlit runway and crossed the lighted, correct runway. The lighted runway was the only runway long enough for the RJ100's 5000ft minimum requirement, which exceeded the short runway by 1500 ft. I fly in my work and cannot conceive a way for this to have been overlooked by a Captain with 7 years behind RJ100/200 sticks, and a First Officer/copilot with 4 years stick time in RJ100's. The Captain was from Burlington, KY and should have been very well familiar with the Lexington airport runways. I've both landed and taken off from unlit runways during darkness... even with a longer runway, it's enough to make your ass grip the seat very tightly! Instrument Landing System (ILS) is available for approach and landing, but is useless for takeoff. There was a third off-duty crew member (male flight attendant) who caught a hop on the flight, sitting in the jumpseat. Despite his presence and possible distractions in the cockpit, I still see no way for the pilot or copilot to see their aircraft running down an unlit runway... crossing a lighted runway during their takeoff run... and not even notice it at all... just totally inconceivable! With no other arrival/departure traffic at the time it's also hard to understand how the lone ground controller did not see the aircraft in a takeoff position on the unlit runway... after all, it's their home field.

marieToo -> RE: Plane Crash (8/28/2006 11:14:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy It's amazing the crew lined up on an unlit 3500 ft runway for a predawn departure... especially since this shorter unlit runway crosses the lighted 7000 ft runway which is also clearly marked on the approach plates the pilots have in the cockpit. They should also have had in their possession the most up to date NOTAMs (Notices to Airmen) regarding airport construction. Despite repaving and re-routing of some taxiways, the runway lights should have been glaringly evident as they rolled down the unlit runway and crossed the lighted, correct runway. The lighted runway was the only runway long enough for the RJ100's 5000ft minimum requirement, which exceeded the short runway by 1500 ft. I fly in my work and cannot conceive a way for this to have been overlooked by a Captain with 7 years behind RJ100/200 sticks, and a First Officer/copilot with 4 years stick time in RJ100's. The Captain was from Burlington, KY and should have been very well familiar with the Lexington airport runways. I've both landed and taken off from unlit runways during darkness... even with a longer runway, it's enough to make your ass grip the seat very tightly! Instrument Landing System (ILS) is available for approach and landing, but is useless for takeoff. There was a third off-duty crew member (male flight attendant) who caught a hop on the flight, sitting in the jumpseat. Despite his presence and possible distractions in the cockpit, I still see no way for the pilot or copilot to see their aircraft running down an unlit runway... crossing a lighted runway during their takeoff run... and not even notice it at all... just totally inconceivable! With no other arrival/departure traffic at the time it's also hard to understand how the lone ground controller did not see the aircraft in a takeoff position on the unlit runway... after all, it's their home field. if the run way was too short, could the pilot not have ascended again upon realization that he hadnt enough room to bring the aircraft to a complete stop?

NastyDaddy -> RE: Plane Crash (8/28/2006 11:26:32 PM)
The problem marie was that the aircraft did not achieve forward speed required for takeoff. Not enough airflow over the wings to provide lift for ascending. Chances are the wheels never left the runway... or the grass... as it propelled itself into the woods. Since they did not have required ground speed and subsequent lift, the flight controls were ineffective. The only thing the pilot could do was keep the throttles wide open as he saw the grass at the end of the shorter runway coming up through the cockpit windshield... at that point it was critical mass/point of no return... other than to become airborne. Had the plane not had a full load of 50 passengers and luggage, along with a full load of fuel... they may have been able to get airborne before hitting the first tree, IF the landing gear had not sheared off first (which is probably what happened).

nativedom -> RE: Plane Crash (8/28/2006 11:38:24 PM)
There is also the fact that the crew may have had only a limited amount of sleep. Some crews may have to fly planes after only getting minimal time between flights. So fatigue of the aircrew may have to be looked at also. They have to complete their hours and get time off later on after a sometimes hectic schedule.

marieToo -> RE: Plane Crash (8/28/2006 11:58:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy The problem marie was that the aircraft did not achieve forward speed required for takeoff. Not enough airflow over the wings to provide lift for ascending. Chances are the wheels never left the runway... or the grass... as it propelled itself into the woods. Since they did not have required ground speed and subsequent lift, the flight controls were ineffective. The only thing the pilot could do was keep the throttles wide open as he saw the grass at the end of the shorter runway coming up through the cockpit windshield... at that point it was critical mass/point of no return... other than to become airborne. Had the plane not had a full load of 50 passengers and luggage, along with a full load of fuel... they may have been able to get airborne before hitting the first tree, IF the landing gear had not sheared off first (which is probably what happened). Ah...ok. Well, thank you for that comprehenisve explanation. I have always been absolutely fascinated with understanding piloting aircraft in general. My dad was a private pilot so I went up alot as a kid, but having become an extreme claustrophobe in my adulthood, my problem keeps me from taking the flight lessons that I always dreamed of. However, it doesnt keep me from learning as much as I possibley can from down here on the ground. Thanks for offering your insight and opinion. :)

NastyDaddy -> RE: Plane Crash (8/29/2006 12:02:11 AM)
From what I've heard, the crew had more rest than was required; "Bornhorst (Comair President) added that the flight crew had been 'on a legal rest period far beyond what is required' ". Runway 22 would have shown a compass heading of 022 degrees (northeast takeoff), or 202 degrees (plus 180 degrees) for a southwest takeoff (opposite direction) for the designated/cleared runway 22. Runway 26 would have indicated 026 degrees compass heading for a northeast takeoff (which was attempted), or 206 degrees in the opposite direction on runway 26. CNN has a simulator video on their site of what the pilot would have seen. An aerial photo of the long vs. short runways, and crash site is at: http://www.cnn.com/interactive/maps/us/map.airport/frameset.exclude.html

Kedicat -> RE: Plane Crash (8/29/2006 12:16:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy i seen that. i wonder if teh lone survivor -is here for a reason, if he/she has any guilt. i never survived a planecrash yet. Oh...Have you died in many? [:D]

seeksfemslave -> RE: Plane Crash (8/29/2006 12:20:14 AM)
Always remember what anyone who has any experience of engineering/technology at all knows, that at some point failures in any complicated system are almost INEVITABLE. That is just a fact. When you consider the thousands of daily take off/landings the safety record of commercial flight is amazing. Nevertheless a tragedy for those involved. If the runway was too short, how did the plane get airbourne at all? Might expect it to plough off the end of the runway.

Kedicat -> RE: Plane Crash (8/29/2006 12:22:58 AM)
Landing in Sao Paulo I noticed that the pilot hit the brakes real!!! hard as soon as the wheels hit. Never had such a deceleration. Then all of a sudden at high speed he cranks a hard left turn!! Yikes! I thought we were going to drag a wing tip. I happened to be on the right side of the plane, so I could see the big cement wall at the very close end of the runway. Yellow stripes on it. a highway and neighbourhood were on the other side. So any problems with your plane and the cement wall sacrifices one planeload of folks for who knows how many on the other side of the wall. It was interesting knowing that when I landed there the second time.

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