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and what if your vanila partner is not a Master? - 8/29/2006 1:40:58 PM

subjected2006

Posts: 248
Joined: 1/20/2006
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In following the interesting points brought up in the current thread about Masters' having vanila wives..what if you are sub?
And the one you have spent twenty two years with is not, and can never be , Master to you?
Does it make me a fake sub to stay with him?
As it turns out I have removed him out of my life..at least out of my house..oh yes..house is in my name only..but if I had stayed with him.,would that have indicated that I was not really a Sub?
I am very interested in how other Subs orchestrate their surrender under these cirumstances.

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a rose is a rose..

Post #: 1

RE: and what if your vanila partner is not a Master? - 8/29/2006 1:48:13 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subjected2006

And the one you have spent twenty two years with is not, and can never be , Master to you?
Does it make me a fake sub to stay with him?
.

I have my opinion and others will differ. I think being submissive is something that we innately are, and it is not something that is outside of us. I am submissive whether I am actively submitting or not. One cannot do D/s by oneself. but we are still the 's' even if we do not have the 'D'.

quote:

As it turns out I have removed him out of my life..at least out of my house..oh yes..house is in my name only..but if I had stayed with him.,would that have indicated that I was not really a Sub?
I am very interested in how other Subs orchestrate their surrender under these cirumstances.

I have never existed under these circumstances so I cannot answer how I would have orchestrated my submission without a dominant partner.. it seems impossible to do so, maybe I misunderstood. I would also not leave someone because they were not a dominant. I would leave for other reasons, and that may play a part in the decision, but I would not bail on a marriage for a D/s relationship.. others will differ in that, and it is really easy for me to say seeing that I was free when I discovered my submissiveness and did not have to make such a decision... if I was in that position it would be extremely difficult, and I do not judge others.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to subjected2006)

Post #: 2

RE: and what if your vanila partner is not a Master? - 8/29/2006 1:50:29 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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http://www.collarchat.com/m_34276/mpage_1/key_convert%252Cvanilla/tm.htm#34290
I am what I am

http://www.collarchat.com/m_79275/mpage_1/key_convert%252Cvanilla/tm.htm#80676
Vanilla's

http://www.collarchat.com/m_101569/mpage_2/key_convert%252Cvanilla/tm.htm#101963
Difficult to find

http://www.collarchat.com/m_158457/mpage_1/key_convert%252Cvanilla/tm.htm#158759
Experience or converted?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_180804/mpage_1/key_convert%252Cvanilla/tm.htm#180804
how do you convert a vanilla?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_89314/mpage_1/key_vanilla%252Cwife/tm.htm#89314
introducing your vanilla partner

http://www.collarchat.com/m_69381/mpage_1/key_vanilla%252Cwife/tm.htm#69381
how to introduce power exchange to vanilla spouse?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_221509/mpage_1/key_vanilla%252Cwife/tm.htm#221509
vanilla so and the lifestyle

http://www.collarchat.com/m_517701/mpage_1/key_convert%252Cvanilla/tm.htm#517713
Recruiting to the lifestyle

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to subjected2006)

Post #: 3

RE: and what if your vanila partner is not a Master? - 8/29/2006 1:52:16 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subjected2006
In following the interesting points brought up in the current thread about Masters' having vanila wives..what if you are sub?
And the one you have spent twenty two years with is not, and can never be , Master to you?

A very few people have managed to make their long term partners aware of their kinky/authority transfer needs and have their partner be receptive and able to fit into the new dynamic.

Most don't.

quote:

Does it make me a fake sub to stay with him?

No but it likely makes neither of you happy.

quote:

As it turns out I have removed him out of my life..at least out of my house..oh yes..house is in my name only..but if I had stayed with him.,would that have indicated that I was not really a Sub?

No, just that you were a sub in a relationship that didn't work for her.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to subjected2006)

Post #: 4

RE: and what if your vanila partner is not a Master? - 8/29/2006 1:53:47 PM

mstrjx

Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

I have seen this go both ways. Married dominant men, married female subs, not married to one another. I've even had them play at my place (at their behest).

I didn't mention it in the other thread, and frankly it might not belong in this thread either, but since it's on my mind......

One of the things that I encountered when I first started full-time down this path, is that the people I met (including my own partners) were apparently so much more generous in their communications with one another. And it is obvious to see why; one person is allowing another person the risk of 'damage', physically or psychologically. If everyone plays nice, this doesn't happen, even in the most stringent of scenes/relationships.

My thought at the time was that 'everyone', including the vanillas, should be exposed to our level of powerplay (give and take) in order to see how better communication works. And if we all can communicate at this level, vanilla or otherwise, how much better relationships would be overall.

I have seen in this forum that some people disagree. I personally believe that that is because there are those that are unsure of themselves, and bring their insecurities into the lives of their partner.

For myself, once I decided 'here' is where I wanted to be, all of my insecurities disappeared with that decision.

There is no question that it is sad that a couple of any sort, after a long period of time, have grown so far apart. In days of yore there was no recourse. Today, we have seen ourselves liberated to explore, even later in life.

I say better late than never.

But all this talk of couples with disparate orientations is still very sad to me.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to subjected2006)

Post #: 5

RE: and what if your vanila partner is not a Master? - 8/29/2006 1:56:24 PM

wild1cfl

Posts: 567
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline

Being a submissive or a Dominant is something that you are yourself. Just because your husband was vanilla and you feel that you are submissive does not make you any less of a submissive. Being the husband of a submissive yet being vanilla does not make him any less your husband.
My wife and I are both Dominants, does that mean that we are less Dominant becuase neither one of us is submissive? no it does not. We have a very wonderful marriage that we would have even if we were both vanilla or one of us was vanilla. We allow each other the freedom to be the person that each of us wants to be. We are also polyamorous, this does not mean that I love my wife any less than if we were monogamous, it is who we are and what we want from our life together. We have been very fortunate over the 20 years to have found a few submissives who can understand our relationship and fit within it well, others we have found do not understand it yet are jealous of what we have.
You are a submissive within yourself and it does not make you any less of a submissive to be married to a vanilla husband.

_____________________________

Wild

My Falcon now is sharp, and passing empty; And, till she stoop, she shall not be full gorg'd, For then she never looks upon her lure. Another way i have to man my haggard, to make her come and know her keeper's call. Wm. Shakespeare

(in reply to subjected2006)

Post #: 6

RE: and what if your vanila partner is not a Master? - 8/29/2006 6:35:44 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

I have lovers that are vanilla. I have family that is vanilla. I have cats that are...well, cats. Do my relationships with them define who I am? Not to me. I'm still a Master. I also believe that I was a Master even before I had a slave. It's who I am, not what I do or how I interact with people who do not wish to submit to me.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Ms Relationship Books
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BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to subjected2006)

Post #: 7

RE: and what if your vanila partner is not a Master? - 8/30/2006 11:40:56 AM

subjected2006

Posts: 248
Joined: 1/20/2006
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these are all very good points
so i am wondering,why is it that in the other thread where the question was can you be a real Master if you are married to a vanila (woman)..it seemed that the popular cencession was that Masters must be Masters in everyway..including Masters of their vanila partners or not be much of a Master at all.
and by the way..
all my cats are little Masters and Mistresses
my dog is a Sub

_____________________________

a rose is a rose..

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 8

RE: and what if your vanila partner is not a Master? - 8/30/2006 11:55:53 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

I can't answer that...I don't share that opinion (I'd like to see them Master their bosses and mothers).

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to subjected2006)

Post #: 9

RE: and what if your vanila partner is not a Master? - 8/30/2006 12:02:36 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subjected2006
it seemed that the popular cencession was that Masters must be Masters in everyway..including Masters of their vanila partners or not be much of a Master at all.
and by the way..
all my cats are little Masters and Mistresses
my dog is a Sub

What popular concession? The OP held that perspective very strongly and maybe a few others. But it's hardly a majority.

While most people believe that master is an orientation and thus always a part of something, it does not mean that they are "a master" over everything and everyone. It's a personal relationship orientation.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to subjected2006)

Post #: 10

RE: and what if your vanila partner is not a Master? - 8/30/2006 12:06:57 PM

mstrjx

Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subjected2006

so i am wondering,why is it that in the other thread where the question was can you be a real Master if you are married to a vanila (woman)..it seemed that the popular cencession was that Masters must be Masters in everyway..including Masters of their vanila partners or not be much of a Master at all.

Without re-reading the other thread, this is my take.

The people who posted who were in this sort of relationship already, because their primary couple is Dom/Domme, or because their 'family' structure is poly to begin with, are in the vast minority.

Most of the married 'dominant' men on this or other similar site are 'probably' cheating on their wife. It amounts to little more than an affair with the 'ol' slap and tickle'. They call themselves dominant because they have found people like yourself who are probably more serious about your submission than they are about your domination. They are hoping that as a woman exploring her interests for the first time, that you might not mind starting out with the 'crumbs'.

You, on the other hand, are serious about your submission, or so it would seem. You now face finding the type of relationship that you desire and deserve. That might nor might not be easy, depending on your approach and your expectations.

If it wasn't clear before, I might as well say that I feel for someone like yourself who has, presumably, serious needs. On the other hand, I feel something akin to disdain for men who claim to be part of WIITWD but are nothing more than users.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to subjected2006)

Post #: 11

RE: and what if your vanila partner is not a Master? - 8/30/2006 12:42:26 PM

zumala

Posts: 1121
Joined: 6/16/2005
Status: offline

I'm a submissive married to another submissive (pup MIGHT switch, but I don't know yet). That makes us... very much in love regardless, and looking at this 'problem' together for solutions.

zuma

(in reply to mstrjx)

Post #: 12

RE: and what if your vanila partner is not a Master? - 8/30/2006 3:02:28 PM

angielouwhos

Posts: 87
Joined: 7/9/2006
Status: offline

I share your situation :) I am a slave married to another slave.

(in reply to zumala)

Post #: 13

RE: and what if your vanila partner is not a Master? - 8/30/2006 3:59:04 PM

raiken

Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline

[quote]ORIGINAL: subjected2006

In following the interesting points brought up in the current thread about Masters' having vanila wives..what if you are sub?
And the one you have spent twenty two years with is not, and can never be , Master to you?
Does it make me a fake sub to stay with him?

i believe it makes you aware of your personal preferences and desires. At that time you had reasons for staying, what ever they were they must have been good to last 20 years in that situation. To honor your committment to the one you love (speaking of a healthy loving relationship here) even when you know that in that one area that the person can not fulfill your fantasies, makes you one who has done the checks and balances and deems the relationship far more valuable, then living out all of your fantasies and desires. It makes you one who has made a choice. Many people make those choices every day, for it is often difficult to find a good partner, even in the nilla sense, and many opt for the greater whole rather than just focus on their pointed desires, etc.  It is about making choices, and sticking to them when needed. Many can and do live like this, knowing they value the one they love far more than anything else in their lives, including having their innermost fantasies fulfilled. Somehow though, i do believe that some never loose hope that one day, they may find or be granted an opportunity to explore. Others live with deep secrets and aches, that are always there, but find a way to nurture themselves when the ache grows stronger at times.

As it turns out I have removed him out of my life..at least out of my house..oh yes..house is in my name only..but if I had stayed with him.,would that have indicated that I was not really a Sub?

No, it means that you may have stayed complacent in an unhealthy relationship, and now you are ending it.  Again it makes you very human, not more or less of anything. As i see it, it really has not much to do with how "sub" or not, that you think, feel and/or believe you are as a person.

I am very interested in how other Subs orchestrate their surrender under these cirumstances.
[/quote]

For myself i am naturally one who likes to be serving and making all those i love and care for happy and content, and i please myself when i know i have contributed to others happiness in some way. My heart and love are usually surrendered and at the mercy of all that love me. They know it too, and try to get over at times. *lol But there are times i don't give in. When i was married to my ex, 7 years into our marraige, he decided that he didn't want to be dominant anymore. He suddenly claimed to have found his "real" self! So i found myself a real Master to serve. *smile For that big part of myself never changed, it is just who i am naturally.

Ex didn't like it, but he respected me enough to allow me to have what i needed. As we were also involved in numerous poly relations with others. He also knew upfront that his dominance was one of the reasons i entered into a committment with him. i was very upfront in the beginning about the type of man that i needed to be my husband. i don't know what caused him to change, i think it was one of the relationships he had with a nilla girl that took him by surprise. i met her a few times, but did not really know her that well, except to say she was kind of dominant as a person. *grin   And to think i had on occasion, teased him playfully that i thought he was a latent submissive all along. LOL Anyway, now we are good friends and he is happy with a nilla girl who is also very dominant by nature. i tease him for i think she has him by his now nilla balls and if he didn't love it, he wouldn't be with her, i would imagine anyway. *grin She is not into the lifestyle either.

i am dominant in my job and in raising my children, being head of house, etc. i am only slave hearted to the ones i serve and/or love, and have an intimate relationship with. This is the ony way i am able to channel and express my love and intimacy, it has just always been like this for me in any relationship i have ever had.

i am not defined as a person by the way i choose or desire to interact within my intimate relationships. That is why i say that choices to remain in a committed relationship with one who doesn't share your exact preferences only makes you a person in love, nothing more or less.

(in reply to subjected2006)

Post #: 14

RE: and what if your vanila partner is not a Master? - 8/30/2006 8:33:48 PM

denika

Posts: 619
Joined: 8/30/2005
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My husband and I share a simular dynamic. I am a bottom, a submissive a masochist  Rob is none of those things nor is he a Master or Top. What he is is my best friend and luckily very understanding partner. Who is willing to share and walk beside me in my path of exploration. It has made it a bit hard at times but we started from the begining (16 years ago) as an open marriage so we already had that 'non-vanilla' twist to our relationship.
When it comes to Lifestyle events or even duties he gladly passes those decisions on to my Top. Infact the evil bugger has been known to even use it as a threat to get me to behave. Amazing how a phone call to Knight of Mists could get me to stop being a pest in under five seconds *g*

It takes a strong relationship and alot of time talking to keep things healthy in a vanilla/non vanilla marriage.   If anything Rob is far from vanilla, more like caramel with chocolate sprinkles *S*

He does do little things for me as his own comfort level has grown. It's my job to have the coffee maker ready for us. The first time I went to help him off with his shoes the look on hi face was pretty priceless, he was mortified. Now when he comes home if he is in work boots he will stick out his leg and go ""well?"   with a smile on his face.

Do I wish he was a sadist... yes but I can't make him something he is not but I can love him for who he is make sure he is included. A big part of it is he gets along well with both of the Tops I have played with and has a strong ongoing friendship with Knight that has nothing to do with lifestyle choices but personalities.

The two can work, and even if the situation is vice versa, if I was the Sadist, he sure as hell wouldn't let me spank him *s* but I know he would help me find someone to spank.

denika

(in reply to subjected2006)

Post #: 15

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