RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (Full Version)

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WhipTheHip -> RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (8/30/2006 8:09:27 AM)

Empathy is my religion.  It is the name of an intentional community
I am trying to start.   I knew who girl who claimed to have a lot of
empathy.  In reality, she was just very upset anytime I had any
feeling she didn't like.  The truth is nature created empathy
primarily for femlaes to nurture their children.  
 
Men tend to have a lot less empathy than women.  My father was
exceptoinally empathic, and so am I.   Empathy tends not to have
a lot of evolutionary advantage for males.   The only way this can
change is if exceptionally empathic people join forces and
build their own communities.  In these communities they can
do more to reward traits that generally prove more disadvantagouss
than advantagous.
 
Until this happens, selfish and aggressive genes will multiply,
and altruistic, good-natured gene will find themselves in the
minority.
 
The environment is a filter that select for personality traits.  If
we want humans to be more empathic, we need to create an
environment that is more favorable to humans who are empathic.
 
I am actually lumping a number of traits together: empathy,
loving-kindness, altruism, selflessness, understanding, and
non-aggressiveness.  These traits don't always come together.
But they often do.
 
I am always disappointed whenever I see empathic,
vegetarian females chosing mates that are not vegetarian,
who are more or less self-centered, and physically aggressive.
 
If most females had to pick a mate from Gandhi, Einstein,
Buddah, Jesus, Betrand Russell and Conan the Barbarian, I
fear Conan would win most of time.  In my estimation, this
has a lot to do with why the world we live in is so fucked up. 
 



Homestead -> RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (8/30/2006 8:43:17 AM)

The hard reality is that the predators will tend to take down the sheep.

Which is why it is the strong gene. Survival of the fittest.



thetammyjo -> RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (8/30/2006 10:52:49 AM)

I don't really see empathy as a BDSM issue but as a human relationships quality that makes the relationship work more smoothly and with greater benefits for each person involved.

The best dominants, submissives, tops, bottoms, and switches I've met thus far in my life have been people with fairly good empathy -- not perfect, no one is perfect.  This is one of the things I'd say about the best people I've met.



WhipTheHip -> RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (8/30/2006 11:37:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead
The hard reality is that the predators will tend to take down the sheep.
Which is why it is the strong gene. Survival of the fittest.


Actually, you don't understand Darwin's Theory of Evolution.
The fact is there are a lot more sheep than animals that prey
on sheep.   Sheep have a greater chance of surviving than
than animals that prey on them.  In fact, most animals that
prey on sheep are on the edge of extinction, precisely because
they are predators.  There are 1,000 times more wildebeast than
there are lions.  Wildebeast have the evolutionary edge over
lions.   The hard reality is different enviroments favor different
genes.   Nature doesn't always favor physical strength or for
that matter intellectual prowess. 
 
Wolves that are strong but selfish are often kicked out of
the pack were they have a much greater chance of not
passing on their genes.  Wolves care for each other.  A
wolf that helps his fellow pack members is much more
likely to receive help from the pack than the lone wolf
who is known by his pack members to look out only for
himself.
 
Meekness, altruism and selflessness have an evolutionary
advantage in many situations or these traits never would evolved. 
While aggressive people kill each other off, the meek produce
offspring.   There is a reason why there are more Chinese people
on Earth than any other people.  Chinese are not aggressive. 
They live together in harmony.  
 
United we stand, divided we fall.  Predators are parasites. 
The hard truth is when kind, good-natured, selfless people
unite, we are stronger and able to achieve more than
individual, strong, selfish, predators.  
 
Kind, good-natured people are weak when we stand alone
against the world.  Our advantage and our power comes
from our ability to cooperate and our devotion to our
community, not just our own selfish interests.   When we
stand alone we are easy prey.  When we unite, we are a
formidable adversary.
 
Hitler lost.  Stalin lost.  Saddam lost.  Gotti lost.  Napolean
lost.  Aggressive predators almost always lose in the end.
Rome was conquered by Jesus. 
 
 
 



onestandingstill -> RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (8/30/2006 11:51:02 AM)

Hi Guys,
For me empathy is vital in a relationship. If he's not considering my feelings or affected by them then I'm not willing to become part of his world on purpose. Why be with someone who is not affected by your emotions?

I think empathy and emotional availability are two separate things. In the OP's post I think she sees them the same.
I have had some people in my life that are the emotionally unavailable types based on the lack of emotion shown to them by their parents. While they have a very hard time letting someone into their tender spots I do see they are empathetic to others. I even feel 2 of my friends are more empathetic than most as the emotional emptiness at home growing up made them more aware others suffered too.
I think even the most extreme sadist should show empathy. They do this in things like after care, providing for their sub/slaves and considering the sub/slaves needs.
Empathy does not have to be mushy and soft. It's a very honorable response to others around you.
Suzanne



onestandingstill -> RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (8/30/2006 11:56:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: smilezz

Ughz!  i thought i would never see or hear the word empath again as long as i lived.  Welllll, ok, i was hoping.
I lived with a woman for a few years that claimed to be an empath.  She was the most manipulative person i have ever met in my life.  Between her and a few other things going on, it almost destroyed me.  I hope i never meet another one, and if i do, they keep it to themselves. 
As you see, i still have some issues with this........so is it important in a relationship?  all i can say is................not for me.

~smilezz~

WOW,
I am very shocked by your statement . I too have empathic abilities. I am not like the friend you mentioned at all. Maybe you should remove the bad apple instead of throwing out the whole basket. Not all people who are empaths are acting like your old friend. I'm surprised you lumped us all together like that when I've seen you saying you're so accepting of alternate lives of this D/s community in most things. Not an attack on you my dear, just I think acting like that is beneath the dignified person I think you are.
Suzanne



darkinshadows -> RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (8/30/2006 12:23:10 PM)

I am a bit confused by the whole thread.
 
I can see people mentioning that they are 'empathic'... and talking about having sympathy for ones feelings or others.  Empathetics sympathise.  Empathics sense. Big Difference.
One who does not have empathic abilities is not a socipath - because it is an ability that not everyone has.
One who is empathetic, is a learned behaviour.
And I agree people do confuse empathy with compassion.
Peace and Rapture



popeye1250 -> RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (8/30/2006 12:40:43 PM)

Dark, true, I confuse it with compassion too.
Easy to do as they're so close.



Adelphus -> RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (8/30/2006 1:14:21 PM)

I'm an empath to a fault. There really is no barrier between myself and others and it can be a very big problem. If I even HEAR someone crying I start to. If someone is angry about something, even if it's something I agree with, I'll find myself picking up the same anger by proxy. It's like whatever someone in the room is feeling, I'm automatically going to feel it, sometimes just as strong. And that goes for fake stuff too. I can't watch/read anything violent because my brain reacts like it's real. Cheesy horror movies included. If I see a grainy black and white woman screaming in a super fake way, I'm STILL totally scared for her!
Thus I resign myself to the weather channel.;-)



WhipTheHip -> RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (8/30/2006 1:22:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
So - how do you really know whether someone has any, or if they are just putting on a good show because they are first getting to know you and want to make a good impression, maybe? This is a completely serious question.  - Susan


By noting how they feel about animals.  Do they eat primate?  Do they like cats AND dogs?  Do they eat mammals?  Do they rescue animals?  What do they do to help others?  How do they feel about the needy, the disabled, the poor, the mentally ill, the homeless and those who have substance abuse issues?  How do they care about their relatives?  etc.
 
Warmest regards,
Michael



popeye1250 -> RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (8/30/2006 1:29:33 PM)

Adelphus, damn, that must be inconvenient as hell!
One time years ago I was shopping with my sister who had just had a baby a few months earlier.
We were in a supermarket and a baby started squalling a few aisles away and she said; "God damnit! My tits are leaking!"
I said "What?"
She said that just the sound of that baby crying made her tits start leaking milk.
I'd call that empathetic.
How do you function in life if you are so over empathetic?



Adelphus -> RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (8/30/2006 2:54:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Adelphus, damn, that must be inconvenient as hell!
How do you function in life if you are so over empathetic?


Not well, I'll tell you that! Damn autism! And people wonder why someone who looks perfectly healthy was granted disability at such a young age. ;-p
*grumble grumble*



raiken -> RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (8/30/2006 2:56:46 PM)

If you can't control your feelings of an empathic nature, you end up as a jack, in the handful of jacks, waiting to be tossed about the floor both following and dodging someone elses bouncy ball!



Adelphus -> RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (8/30/2006 3:32:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken

If you can't control your feelings of an empathic nature, you end up as a jack, in the handful of jacks, waiting to be tossed about the floor both following and dodging someone elses bouncy ball!

Yep, that's what it's like.;-p I've developed a paper-thin barrier through willpower. It's not much, but much better than nothing.;-)



SusanofO -> RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (8/30/2006 3:33:00 PM)

julia: I think Your post was insightful, and really did help illuminate the difference between the two for me.

LA: I don't know if you lack empathy or not, but I do know it's nice of you to search for all of the old threads on various topics for people related to their post, when a new topic comes up. Maybe that's not related to empathy, but it's a lot of work, and I think it's considerate.

- Susan



SusanofO -> RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (8/30/2006 3:39:16 PM)

Suzanne: You're exactly right. I don't want to be with someone who isn't emotionally available. I guess that doesn't make them a sociopath (when I said that, I was talking to myself, and just trying to figure out what I think empathy really means to me). I mean, if I'm willing to really be available, why wouldn't I want them to do it?

Adelphus: I am not as empathic as you are, but I also cry in movies - and can identify to a charachter to a point where, when my mom was alive, if we watched a movie together, she'd kind of roll her eyes and say to me: "Oh come on....it's just a movie!"

tammyjo: I don't see empathy as exclusive or necessary only to bdsm relationships, either. I thinki it's a good thing for any relationship, yes.

WhiptheHip: Thanks for answering. I doubt I could be interested in someone who was mean to animals. I think I'd want to slap them. For the record, Yes, Hitler fell, and I think Osama Bin Laden is a goner, as well.

Creative Dominant and Homestead: Thanks for the replies. I agree. I do know sociopaths can be empathic, but I am not interested in those types - like any other trait, I am sure empathy can be grossly mis-used by someone to hurt another.

- Susan



KeirasSecret -> RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (8/30/2006 4:10:49 PM)

Amen to that Julia. There are times when I have to avoid certain people because of what I feel when I'm around them. Especially people I care about. Though I have to say I prefer compasion to sympathy. To me compasion means understanding and sympothy means to feel sorry for.
Dont mean to nit pick and sorry for any misspelling. It's not one of my strong points



RosaB -> RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (8/30/2006 4:13:54 PM)

I believe, I'm a rather empathetic person and I would like my partner to have that quality as well.  Considering my life's history, I would find it difficult to be with a man that lacked that ability in a bdsm relationship or otherwise.

Here's an interesting link on empathy/sympathy that someone may find of interest.

http://www.empathy-and-listening-skills.info/index.htm#summary



SusanofO -> RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (8/30/2006 4:15:58 PM)

Wow, Rosa, thanks for the site reference! It really does a good job highlighting the difference between Empathy and Sympathy. Thanks!

Thanks again to all who have replied to this thread.

- Susan



WhiteRadiance -> RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? (8/30/2006 5:17:22 PM)

It is extremely important in ALL relationships.  I have always been cursed with empathy.  I think, "how would I feel if that was me.."  Empathy is not about compassion or being sympathetic, it is about the ability to FEEL what the other person is feeling, and relate to it on some level. 
 



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