Unintelligent intelligence

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meatcleaver -> Unintelligent intelligence (8/30/2006 4:13:00 AM)
I was watching a programme on the Discovery Channel yesterday called "Why Intelligence Doesn't Work" about CIA and what one American official called catostrophic intelligence failures in Cuba, Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan. Today I read this article in the paper about US interference in Venezuela http://www.guardian.co.uk/venezuela/story/0,,1860867,00.html . It just got me to thinking that perhaps the USA should try diplomacy rather than making all the same mistakes again.

pantera -> RE: Unintelligent intelligence (8/30/2006 6:23:49 AM)
I am anxious to see the elections in Venezuela... I think they are taking place in December- If I'm not mistaken, chavez changed the constitution to eliminate the time limits for presidents...he's learned a lot from his cuban pal!!!! You can't try diplomacy with people like chavez or castro...but the Pat Robertson approach may work!!! I say we try that instead-

philosophy -> RE: Unintelligent intelligence (8/30/2006 6:36:44 AM)
"You can't try diplomacy with people like chavez or castro...but the Pat Robertson approach may work!!!" ...yet, in another thread you stated you couldn't see why america is seen as the bad guys. Can you spell irony?

meatcleaver -> RE: Unintelligent intelligence (8/30/2006 6:46:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pantera I am anxious to see the elections in Venezuela... I think they are taking place in December- If I'm not mistaken, chavez changed the constitution to eliminate the time limits for presidents...he's learned a lot from his cuban pal!!!! You can't try diplomacy with people like chavez or castro...but the Pat Robertson approach may work!!! I say we try that instead- If Chavez changed the constitution legally or even illegally, that is the business of Venezuela and not the business of the USA. If China accused Bush of using a sympathetic Supreme Court to gain power after the last election fiasco, Americans would be saying it is none of China's business. From what I understand and please correct me if I'm wrong. The Senate put a limit on the number of terms a President could be in office because senator's didn't want thier own ambitions thwarted by another FDR who just seemed keep winning elections. That's politics.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Unintelligent intelligence (8/30/2006 7:27:35 AM)
But repeating mistakes is what history is all about.

Rule -> RE: Unintelligent intelligence (8/30/2006 7:30:43 AM)
Those intelligence services are clumsy, aren't they? Even a dead fish is smarter and better informed than they are. It is almost as if governments recruit their secret agents from the mental wards of the institutions for the demented. But then why pay them so much? Or can it be that they simply pretend to be extremely stupid? Now that would be truly smart, wouldn't it?

LotusSong -> RE: Unintelligent intelligence (8/30/2006 7:54:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy "You can't try diplomacy with people like chavez or castro...but the Pat Robertson approach may work!!!" ...yet, in another thread you stated you couldn't see why america is seen as the bad guys. Can you spell irony? Wasn't it Pat Robertson that was talking with Glen Beck a few nights ago that said we need to do a fence along the Mexico/USA bordere to keep the illegals out? (which I do agree with. If Mexico can give it's people printouts of how to get into this country illegally and what route to take..they can give them an application for citizenship in our country and do it legally) And his big concern was the declining percentage of white americans to the other minorities? And that the problem with immigrants is that they are not melting into the fold but keeping their own culture and languages thus destroying the American culture? Oh yeah, I've heard of him.. "nice" guy..

CrappyDom -> RE: Unintelligent intelligence (8/30/2006 8:09:12 AM)
quote: If I'm not mistaken, chavez changed the constitution to eliminate the time limits for presidents...he's learned a lot from his cuban pal!!!! You can't try diplomacy with people like chavez or castro...but the Pat Robertson approach may work!!! At least Chavez had the grace to have the constitution changed, ole Bushie just ignores it and does whatever he wants, hell he doesn't even obey the laws congress passes. If Chavez offends you but Bush doesn't, that can only be because your partisanship leaves you blind to reality.

peterK50 -> RE: Unintelligent intelligence (8/30/2006 3:16:41 PM)
Sadly, the intelligence services are no different then any other large, multi- tiered operation. The way to be promoted is to tell the Boss what he wants to hear, keep conflicts & vagaries to a minimum, & play the game. Those now in positions of authority just did that better then the others, they were not necessarily the best or the most capable.

LotusSong -> RE: Unintelligent intelligence (8/30/2006 3:25:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver I was watching a programme on the Discovery Channel yesterday called "Why Intelligence Doesn't Work" about CIA and what one American official called catostrophic intelligence failures in Cuba, Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan. Today I read this article in the paper about US interference in Venezuela http://www.guardian.co.uk/venezuela/story/0,,1860867,00.html . It just got me to thinking that perhaps the USA should try diplomacy rather than making all the same mistakes again. I've seen this program also.. Very enlightening.

pantera -> RE: Unintelligent intelligence (9/1/2006 6:18:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong Wasn't it Pat Robertson that was talking with Glen Beck a few nights ago that said we need to do a fence along the Mexico/USA bordere to keep the illegals out? (which I do agree with. If Mexico can give it's people printouts of how to get into this country illegally and what route to take..they can give them an application for citizenship in our country and do it legally) And his big concern was the declining percentage of white americans to the other minorities? And that the problem with immigrants is that they are not melting into the fold but keeping their own culture and languages thus destroying the American culture? Oh yeah, I've heard of him.. "nice" guy.. I think I'm going to state my position on Pat Robertsonand not because I particularlly care what anybody might think... I, unlike probably most of you, have no religion (not something to be proud or ashamed of) ... I have tried to fool myself into believing there is something after we die...but I can't... therefore, I am not a huge fan of PR- however...when he said that assassins should be paid to take dictators out...well...that was a brilliant moment in his carrer - Dictators are murderers and I don't believe all lives are worth the same....the lives of, for instance, any of our children is priceless, while the life of a child murderer is worth nothing...(what a waste of oxigen!!!). Killing a murderer saves and improves the lives of the people that suffer under their regime....why do you think so many people were celebrating when they heard news of castro's illness?? and rightfully so- It also saves money and the lives of the Good-Guy soldiers - .... for those who are confused here: that's US troops. Terrorists who murder innocents hate the US, leftist dictators hate the US...hmmm! I don't think I want to hang out with that bunch -

meatcleaver -> RE: Unintelligent intelligence (9/1/2006 7:14:02 AM)
Castro has probably caused less deaths by far than the average American President. Executing murderers has led to a lot of innocent people being executed for murder. Who executes the police, judges and jury that are guilty of murder? Leftist dictatotrs might hate you (USA) but rightwing dictators don't, you arm them to murder innocent people.

philosophy -> RE: Unintelligent intelligence (9/1/2006 12:37:24 PM)
"I think I'm going to state my position on Pat Robertsonand not because I particularlly care what anybody might think... " ...fair enough....... "when he said that assassins should be paid to take dictators out...well...that was a brilliant moment in his carrer" ...the dictator in this case being someone voted into office? So you support the assasination of democratically elected politicians? "It also saves money and the lives of the Good-Guy soldiers - .... for those who are confused here: that's US troops." ....can you spell Abu Ghraib? i'm not sure if i can, but think of it as less a spelling bee and more an aide memoire....... "I, unlike probably most of you, have no religion (not something to be proud or ashamed of)" Actually, i think you sell yourself short. You clearly worship the ideal of America. Fair enough, its a lovely ideal if thats what rocks your boat. But at one point you intimated that you didn't like hype....well, i'm afraid my friend you've fallen for a whole barrel-load.........

mnottertail -> RE: Unintelligent intelligence (9/1/2006 12:43:50 PM)
That's me in the corner; That's me in the spotlight, losing my religion.............. Well said, mrP!

CrappyDom -> RE: Unintelligent intelligence (9/1/2006 1:20:50 PM)
Pantera, What do you think about a country that overthrows elected governments and installs brutal dictators? Do you really believe Saddam and Noriega were evil dictators?

Manawyddan -> RE: Unintelligent intelligence (9/2/2006 5:37:35 AM)
The problem wouldn't be "intelligence" so much if we had leadership which actually listened to it. The current administration is notorious for ignoring contradictory information from the established intelligence community and only listening to those who tell them what they want to hear. Reports are, they're doing it again with Iran, so our Iranian friends should look to the skies ...

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