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RE: How ready are you for Spanish? - 8/30/2006 8:54:30 PM   
MrDiscipline44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

The dofference with Europe is it is composed of different COUNTRIES.  In the US.. we are composed of English speaking sates.  I'm sure if each state had their own language;.. we'd  learn their language, just out of respect. 

If I am going to Europe,  I'd at least have a working knowledge of the language of the place I intend to visit.
Considering the the majority of the western hemisphere is of hispanic origins and that the spanish were here long before the english, I think it was long over due for spanish to make a reemergence. Hell, even the name "America" is spanish in origin.


< Message edited by MrDiscipline44 -- 8/30/2006 8:55:41 PM >

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RE: How ready are you for Spanish? - 8/30/2006 8:57:58 PM   
Estring


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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

I'm ready for Spanish.  I know quite a bit and am teaching my daughter what I know.... but I would love to be fluent in many languages.  It's a wonderful thing;  brain function is increased with  knowledge of additional languages, and how wonderful to be able to communicate with many more people world-wide.

Americans who think it's toxic to be exposed to other languages are at a major disadvantage.  Most countries teach English in schools, and it is more common to go to other civilized nations and find people speaking English as a second language, than it is to come to the US and find people speaking Spanish, French, Italian, etc, as a second language.

The US has a lot of Spanish-speaking people, and I see no reason why there shouldn't be room for two languages.  I don't see a problem if the national anthem or the pledge is translated into another language... who does it hurt?  Heaven forbid we should all be more tolerant, more culturally diverse and more knowledgeable.

In my opinion, Americans often seem so hung up on being "American" that they sometimes forget they are human beings also.  I'd love to see the The National Anthem re-written.  We are so proud of bombs and war.... what about peace,  love, beauty, and unity?  I would have to move to another country to sing a song like that.


Do you even know what the National Anthem is about? Where is it talking about being proud of bombs and war? Silly me, I thought it was about the pride Francis Scott Key felt as he saw the flag still flying amidst all the bombs and rockets exploding around it.
And I always thought the lyrics to "America The Beautiful" were a celebration of peace, love, beauty and unity. See, if you actually know the lyrics to these songs, it might save you a trip.  

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RE: How ready are you for Spanish? - 8/30/2006 8:59:25 PM   
BlueHnS


Posts: 166
Joined: 9/5/2005
Status: offline 		Something to consider ... Foreign languages are being cut one by one in districts across the nation. In some districts the only foreign language taught is spanish already.

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RE: How ready are you for Spanish? - 8/30/2006 9:04:12 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		I enjoy learning other languges. I'm just not liking the fact that people who come to live in the USA are beginning to think that they don't have to learn english and that everything should be reversed to suit there needs. When you move somewheres, it's normally to join and not to change. After all, what's the point of moving if you want the new place to be just like your homeland?

Anyhow, I do see a language conversion here in US known as Spanglish becoming the dominant toungue.  



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RE: How ready are you for Spanish? - 8/30/2006 9:07:26 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I think she's dismayed that our national anthem is about the pride that someone feels at seeing the flag amidst rockets and bombs.  I'm not sure I share her dismay, though I don't think our national anthem is all that brilliant.

Anyway, "America the Beautiful" isn't the national anthem.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

Do you even know what the National Anthem is about? Where is it talking about being proud of bombs and war? Silly me, I thought it was about the pride Francis Scott Key felt as he saw the flag still flying amidst all the bombs and rockets exploding around it.
And I always thought the lyrics to "America The Beautiful" were a celebration of peace, love, beauty and unity. See, if you actually know the lyrics to these songs, it might save you a trip.  

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RE: How ready are you for Spanish? - 8/30/2006 9:08:44 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Anyhow, I do see a language conversion here in US known as Spanglish becoming the dominant toungue.  




Why would this be a problem?


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RE: How ready are you for Spanish? - 8/30/2006 9:08:51 PM   
Estring


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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

The dofference with Europe is it is composed of different COUNTRIES.  In the US.. we are composed of English speaking sates.  I'm sure if each state had their own language;.. we'd  learn their language, just out of respect. 

If I am going to Europe,  I'd at least have a working knowledge of the language of the place I intend to visit.
Considering the the majority of the western hemisphere is of hispanic origins and that the spanish were here long before the english, I think it was long over due for spanish to make a reemergence. Hell, even the name "America" is spanish in origin.



By that logic, we should all be speaking some type of Indian language. They were here before The Spanish or The English.

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RE: How ready are you for Spanish? - 8/30/2006 9:22:18 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44
Considering the the majority of the western hemisphere is of hispanic origins and that the spanish were here long before the english, I think it was long over due for spanish to make a reemergence. Hell, even the name "America" is spanish in origin.




     Ok, this is pretty funny.  Are you suggesting that Spanish is a native language in America???   Merely a last vestige of another vanished EUROPEAN empire.  If we used the Conquistador method of killing those who won't learn the new language, I'd never have to 'press 1 for English' again.

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RE: How ready are you for Spanish? - 8/30/2006 9:55:30 PM   
MistressLorelei


Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

I'm ready for Spanish.  I know quite a bit and am teaching my daughter what I know.... but I would love to be fluent in many languages.  It's a wonderful thing;  brain function is increased with  knowledge of additional languages, and how wonderful to be able to communicate with many more people world-wide.

Americans who think it's toxic to be exposed to other languages are at a major disadvantage.  Most countries teach English in schools, and it is more common to go to other civilized nations and find people speaking English as a second language, than it is to come to the US and find people speaking Spanish, French, Italian, etc, as a second language.

The US has a lot of Spanish-speaking people, and I see no reason why there shouldn't be room for two languages.  I don't see a problem if the national anthem or the pledge is translated into another language... who does it hurt?  Heaven forbid we should all be more tolerant, more culturally diverse and more knowledgeable.

In my opinion, Americans often seem so hung up on being "American" that they sometimes forget they are human beings also.  I'd love to see the The National Anthem re-written.  We are so proud of bombs and war.... what about peace,  love, beauty, and unity?  I would have to move to another country to sing a song like that.


Do you even know what the National Anthem is about? Where is it talking about being proud of bombs and war? Silly me, I thought it was about the pride Francis Scott Key felt as he saw the flag still flying amidst all the bombs and rockets exploding around it.
And I always thought the lyrics to "America The Beautiful" were a celebration of peace, love, beauty and unity. See, if you actually know the lyrics to these songs, it might save you a trip.  


Of course I know the words and meaning of the song... it was shoved down my throat since I was a kid.  While it's nice that it's part of our history, being proud of a symbolic cloth, or a song about it that is associated with war isn't a thrill for me... sorry.   Our national anthem was placed to the tune of an old English drinking song... it doesn't make a good case that English is the primary language of the US (what is 'o'er'?, and Stanza three (especially) became a joke once the British became our allies in WWII.

America the Beautiful is no more our national anthem than Born in the USA.  As a matter of fact, I bet more of us can sing that song.  I have no problem with our National Anthem.... to me it's just a song. I am not proud of it, I don't especially like the sound of it, it's difficult to sing, it has words no one ever uses outside of the song, and there is much more about America to be proud of today, than war.  I certainly don't need to hear it every time I go to a baseball game.  People (usually elderly folks) glare at me because I don't put my hand on my chest... and heaven forbid if I didn't stand (I guess it's not land of the free so much)... but it's just a song. 

And now this song is taking up the time and effort of government?  Who cares what language people want to translate it to.   We have real issues in this country that government and residents should be focusing on.  Are flag burning and a national anthem really top priorities?

If you like it... sing it, but don't tell me I don't know what it's about.


< Message edited by MistressLorelei -- 8/30/2006 10:05:31 PM >

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RE: How ready are you for Spanish? - 8/30/2006 10:01:22 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		LOLOL, the National anthem is the horst wessel song of the revolution,
so SFK was on a british ship as a passenger and a veritable persona non grata in the war when they started to pull into fort machenry...........



Shall I stand here and say;

What spanish did Wasington know?
.........................Lincloln know?
......................Martin Luther King know?


Hey; Vato, I can feel you, but no revolucion, fon dio mascaro!


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RE: How ready are you for Spanish? - 8/30/2006 10:33:01 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

My son had to have spanish 1 and spanish 2 before he can gradutate.......iEso es estupido!!!!!

That is a state law. In California you do not have to have a second language unless you want to go straight to university... college prep has a two year language requirement. He could probably take French instead of Spanish for a second language, or German if it is a really progressive school... In Europe their kids speak two or three languages.. I wish we were like that, their kids are just better educated than ours...sighs


The dofference with Europe is it is composed of different COUNTRIES.  In the US.. we are composed of English speaking sates.  I'm sure if each state had their own language;.. we'd  learn their language, just out of respect. 

If I am going to Europe,  I'd at least have a working knowledge of the language of the place I intend to visit.


Europe is a continent with separate countries just very recently trying to form a European Union... Mexico is our nearest neighbor and Spanish speaking.... thanks for making my point, we would be "respectful" to learn Spanish just like Italians  should learn to speak French or Spanish... because they are in close proximity... thanks for making my point for me..smiles

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RE: How ready are you for Spanish? - 8/30/2006 10:59:48 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

We've already discussed how the US National Anthem had been translated into Spanish. Now, the Pledge of Alligance has not only been translated, but also forced for kids in school to say it once in English and then again in Spanish.  


I have no problem with other languages being taught in schools, even making them mandatory.   I failed Spanish in HS because I spoke Spanglish and just couldn't make the transition.  I also speak Italian, German, Farsi, Amharic, and Tigree (from the various countries and people that I have worked with).

The problem that I have, and what I feel the thread has lost sight of, is the FORCED speaking of the Pledge of Aligence in Spanish.   I think that falls into the category of me, a whole bunch of well armed gorillas and some really major torture devices.

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RE: How ready are you for Spanish? - 8/30/2006 11:01:43 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

My son had to have spanish 1 and spanish 2 before he can gradutate.......iEso es estupido!!!!!

That is a state law. In California you do not have to have a second language unless you want to go straight to university... college prep has a two year language requirement. He could probably take French instead of Spanish for a second language, or German if it is a really progressive school... In Europe their kids speak two or three languages.. I wish we were like that, their kids are just better educated than ours...sighs


The dofference with Europe is it is composed of different COUNTRIES.  In the US.. we are composed of English speaking sates.  I'm sure if each state had their own language;.. we'd  learn their language, just out of respect. 

If I am going to Europe,  I'd at least have a working knowledge of the language of the place I intend to visit.


Europe is a continent with separate countries just very recently trying to form a European Union... Mexico is our nearest neighbor and Spanish speaking.... thanks for making my point, we would be "respectful" to learn Spanish just like Italians  should learn to speak French or Spanish... because they are in close proximity... thanks for making my point for me..smiles


Did we forget English Speaking Canada?

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RE: How ready are you for Spanish? - 8/30/2006 11:10:20 PM   
BlueHnS


Posts: 166
Joined: 9/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Europe is a continent with separate countries just very recently trying to form a European Union... Mexico is our nearest neighbor and Spanish speaking.... thanks for making my point, we would be "respectful" to learn Spanish just like Italians  should learn to speak French or Spanish... because they are in close proximity... thanks for making my point for me..smiles


I spoke Spanish before I spoke English, or Hebrew for that matter.  But if you want to drag respect into this, anyone entering any country should learn the language of that country.  I wouldn't come to your house, fire up a cigar and kick off my shoes without asking permission first, and I'd expect you'd not do the same in mine.

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RE: How ready are you for Spanish? - 8/30/2006 11:29:51 PM   
MistressLorelei


Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

We've already discussed how the US National Anthem had been translated into Spanish. Now, the Pledge of Alligance has not only been translated, but also forced for kids in school to say it once in English and then again in Spanish.  


I have no problem with other languages being taught in schools, even making them mandatory.   I failed Spanish in HS because I spoke Spanglish and just couldn't make the transition.  I also speak Italian, German, Farsi, Amharic, and Tigree (from the various countries and people that I have worked with).

The problem that I have, and what I feel the thread has lost sight of, is the FORCED speaking of the Pledge of Aligence in Spanish.   I think that falls into the category of me, a whole bunch of well armed gorillas and some really major torture devices.


How about the FORCED speaking of the Pledge of Allegence in any language?
Some people who are forced to say it, are from a country with a different flag.  Why should kids be made into little patriots if they or their parents don't want them to be.   Being forced to utter any words seems hardly like freedom to me.

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RE: How ready are you for Spanish? - 8/31/2006 12:19:09 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		I'm all in favour of learning and trying to speak a new language, but it IS very difficult. When PC Liberalism was begining to run totally out of control in the UK a few years ago it would not have been long before it would have been mandatory to learn Urdu or some Asian language like that. Now that really would have been a problem.

We Brits have to learn American anyway......thats bad enough ! Have a nice day Y'all

Hasta la vista, Auf Wiedersehen, A bientot ,Ciao..,wow what a linguist

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 8/31/2006 12:25:51 AM >

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RE: How ready are you for Spanish? - 8/31/2006 2:59:36 AM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		Ummm, all this concern over learning a second language,LOL. I really think maybe learning English, Math, and the Sciences, first would be way more important. Seeing how poorly kids do in the core subjects, tends to lead to the conclusion adding more requirements isn't going to help. So, they can talk about nothing in multiple languages. LOL.  I took spanish in high school, but it wasn't mandatory, I could have taken french, german, or a couple of others. But if I had to say which is more important, being every other school course or a foreign language, I'm backing the every other except P.E. maybe. Knowing a foreign language is nice but not critical. Unless people in this country select not to learn the national language. Or you plan on working internationally. 

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RE: How ready are you for Spanish? - 8/31/2006 3:17:40 AM   
Chloelicious


Posts: 1078
Joined: 8/10/2006
From: belgium, Brussels, Forest
Status: offline 		Hello A/all,

That's true that in Europe we are used to speak some foreign languages and that is a real good idea. In my country Belgium, we have officially 3 languages: French/Dutch/German. It's explainable because this little country was part of the Dutch Kingdom, of French empire and German came out when after the WWII Germany gave us back a few of their "catch" of war.

The problem we got more often is that Dutch is not liked by our children (i understand them anyway), first because the Dutch speaking (Flemish) seems to think that are the 8th wonder of the world and want to imposing their way of thinking.
Second the language is not really "nice to the hears" 
Third, except for the northern part of Belgium and Holland, the language is not really helpfull and then EVEN in those 2 Country/part most of people are speaking English.

Now for the US, i think it's a shame that you did'nt speak any other languages (some spanish maybe ) but i think that you don't really have to do so because every other country is speaking English (language of development, of debate, of the most  supposedly powerfull country, etc)

I speak French, English, Italian and Dutch but they does'nt help me to find a job cause I'm not fluent enough in Dutch and  any employer care about the 3 other s because of the supposed supremacy of flemish..
Sometime i wonder why i wasted time learning all this?  but i know that i will learn  Arabic anyway and will continue to improve my skills.

CHloé


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RE: How ready are you for Spanish? - 8/31/2006 5:44:36 AM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

By that logic, we should all be speaking some type of Indian language. They were here before The Spanish or The English.
Ah, but noone is complaining about having to learn Navajo to speak with there gardener, or that the anthem is being translated into Blackfoot and there isn't over 39 million Sioux (or anyother NA nation) in the United States. So learning a native american language wouldn't benefit us.

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RE: How ready are you for Spanish? - 8/31/2006 5:56:20 AM   
MissyRane


Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline 		The only thing spanish has done to me is making me pissed off so screw spanish! no offence but I hate the languageI much more prefer italian

< Message edited by MissyRane -- 8/31/2006 5:58:51 AM >

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