RE: Sub drop?

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LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 9:45:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TitaniumWolf You're serious about the restraints? I'd be afraid she'd hurt herself struggling against them. But you aren't afraid she'd hurt herself or others if left unrestrained and ungagged? You should be able to restrain her in ways that won't allow for it- it's not that hard. Heck just put heavy mitts on her hands and lock her in a cage with a bit gag in her mouth. Getting a straitjacket is also a good choice.

TitaniumWolf -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 9:51:57 AM)
LA, I sure hope you're being sarcastic, cause if not, you're one tough cookie. Actually I do see you're point about not letting her hurt herself. Since there will never be another Dom, I'm not overtly worried that she'll hurt me. However I doubt I'll use those types of restraints, I think I'll just use my hands. Seems kinder that way.

mylittlesub -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 10:11:42 AM)
Forgive me for posing a different view here, but it occurred to me while reading TW's post that there might be another perspective? You mentioned that you thought at first that "maybe she wasn't done scening" - is it possible that her behavior could have been because she was at a point where she was willing to go further when you ended the scene? It's the mewling that makes me wonder... I often do that when I'm wanting more and wanting to be pushed further and yet am so into it that I can't communicate rationally - and I get aggressive and often bite, too. Everything from her incoherency to her need to be physical to her "dropping" and sobbing to her apologies and inability to explain her behavior is something I've been through. You mentioned you both are more into mind play - perhaps she's needing a bit more physical challenge to go along with the mental challenge you are giving her. For myself, I've found that I thoroughly enjoy and even NEED someone to prove their complete and utter willingness to push me to my absolute limits. Its not that I am trying to be bratty, or rebel, or want to hurt them back... but that just somehow their proving their "ability" to control me is something I need to know without question. It happened to me early on in my relationship with my Master - once he reinforced his ability to control me and yet still convey to me his devotion to me, I calmed down. I'm not a pain slut nor do I pride myself on being a SAM... so it was really just a strong hand that I wanted, to know that I was 'safe'. It took me several years to understand my behavior - and can often be a turn-off to someone who reads it as instability or being out of control. I do believe you were right in keeping your own emotions in check, and being very clear and firm with her - perhaps with your next scene you might try pushing her just a bit further before the cuffs come off, and see if you can push past that mewling and biting into something really beautiful and submissive. Breaking through that last wall, for me, was very cathartic. Respectfully, mls

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 10:12:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TitaniumWolf LA, I sure hope you're being sarcastic, cause if not, you're one tough cookie. Actually I do see you're point about not letting her hurt herself. Since there will never be another Dom, I'm not overtly worried that she'll hurt me. However I doubt I'll use those types of restraints, I think I'll just use my hands. Seems kinder that way. I guess I'm a tough cookie, but I think I'm just more practical. She's out of it, she has no idea what's going on, and rather than fighting you and possibly causing an accident she'll and possibly YOU will be very sorry for later, padding her up and locking her down will let her go through her aggression without the risks of damage or accidents. Unless you've been trained in takedown techniques and know how to spar well with someone, you could do serious damage trying to hold her down.

MadamShy -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 10:31:45 AM)
I am sorry but I normally Like your answers this time I don’t I do not think this Man needs ropes gags or straight jackets I feel those things May damage her further. He was strong enough to restrain her and talk her down with love I believe this is what she needs and will continue to need if she ever goes to that place again... He must just watch out for nails teeth and keep objects away from her... If they are in the Bed at the time that is a good place to hold her with His Big strong arms and coo her down in his gruff voice back to reality.. I feel He has a handle on the problem she is being liberated with deep buried pain and This IS helping... Same thing happened to Me in the beginning and I was lucky to have a wonderful Male Dominate that held Me thru it and now I am fine and do some of the same for My subs/slaves/pets ... Good Luck Titanium Wolf its going to be a Journey for you But if you stick with it a bond will be made that No one can ever break Always, Madam Shy Head Domina House of Purple Shadows

Donnalee -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 10:42:23 AM)
It sounds like something got released or triggered in the scene. Maybe she felt safe enough and that you could contain her enough to really let go....but what was inside just wasn't so "pretty". Having a few years experience working in a locked psychiatric ward, I can tell you with certainty that when someone is out of control, the situation can become unpredictable pretty quickly, and restraints to keep them safe from harm is the kindest act. Think how bad both of you would feel if one of you had gotten hurt during her episode. Trust can be lost, or fear can enter your relationship and do damage. Another good reason for being prepared to lock her down is the relief it will give her to be able to fight it out and keep safe. I've seen many people come out of those experiences a changed person: stronger, safer, more in control of themselves. (Not immediately after, but within the same week) They talk of finally being able to give the full fight, push the limits to the nth degree and get it over with. The love and clear acceptance you have for her before, during, and after is nice to hear about. I hear you taking your role as dominant very seriously, instead of in just a limited scene way....that kind of committment can carry you both through this to newer places and deeper joys. If you decide you need professional help at some point, here is one link that I know of for Kink Aware Professionals: http://www.ncsfreedom.org/kap/ I'm sure there are others. Good Luck!

Mavis -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 12:11:13 PM)
You sound like a treasure.. it was so nice to hear of Your reaction.. concern that You did something to trigger it, reassuring her You were there and loving her.. whatever You decide about restraining her and preparing for possibly facing this situation again, i'm betting You'll do the right thing. So far Your intuitive behavior seems dead on. IMHO, W/we could call You Allstate, she seems to be in good Hands. i do hope You get some more info on how to handle when a scene goes freaky, a lot of Doms have real struggles with the sudden onset of a "strangeness" during a scene, and suffer guilt or self-doubt about it. Whatever You do, keep looking for more input from other Doms/Masters so You'll feel armed and secure in how You handle her. If You loose confidence in Yourself, it'll have a longer impact on the B/both of Y/you than just scene-time.

TitaniumWolf -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 12:46:58 PM)
Thank you very much for your kind words. At this time I do not see Myself using restraints, I feel confident that I can restrain her Myself. I think restraining her with objects at this point would be cruel and have more negitive effects then postitive ones. It's good to get so much heartfelt advice. Are there other links that talk about this particuliar problem?

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 1:08:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TitaniumWolf Are there other links that talk about this particuliar problem? There might be, except that we don't know exactly what this "problem" is, or even if it is a problem at all. At this point there's very little to go on and really, just talking it out with her more in detail and seeing how things go will be your best course. There are definitely threads about: - Primal headspace - Repressed memories of abuse coming out in play - Sense of security allowing emotions to be expressed - Pushing past emotional limits in scenes However, none of us have any idea whether those are applicable in this situation, or to what extent.

TitaniumWolf -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 1:12:36 PM)
You're right LA. It's not precisly a problem. More of an issue. How do I get to those links you've mentioned?

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 1:21:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TitaniumWolf You're right LA. It's not precisly a problem. More of an issue. How do I get to those links you've mentioned? Click on "search" at the top of the page.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 1:32:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin I don't think that this is drop as LA already pointed out. One other possibility is that she was simply spacing. Subspace is not always a fun, fluffy serene place....there is bad space too that is sometimes violent and angry. And good space that's violent and angry too :) But I agree- we need more messages like this- subspace is not always happy space. I have to agree with both of you here. I reached into deep, raw, extremely angry emotions during a phase of sub-spaces that I experienced. Deep journeys into subspace have allowed me to explore myself. Going through that anger was cathartic (and somewhat frightening), and allowed me to release such venom that was buried deep inside. I have not had an angry sub space experience in a very long time.

AnAtlantaDom -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 3:14:59 PM)
*Wolf - if at some time it becomes necessary to seek professional help here is a link to Kink Aware Professionals listed by state. I'd suggest you save it to favorites.* http://www.ncsfreedom.org/kap/ AD

rien -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 5:33:51 PM)
When I was younger, I was raped repeatedly for three years by my older brother. Interestingly enough, I've acquired an interest in acting out a "rape" scene with my Master someday in the distant future. Having him there to shove me into memories like that, turn them into something good, and then hold me afterward and make the painful memories--most of which are repressed, like your girl's are--is something I look forward to. I want very much for it to happen eventually. One of the first times I was with my Master, I never went that far, but I started crying uncontrollably; I couldn't stop. This was the first time I had really been with a man since the rapes. A lot of rape vics turn promiscuous. I went the other way. At any rate, it brought back some very vague, but intense memories to my body. My mind was completely into everything that was being done. I adored every second of it and worshiped him completely. However, my body was against it, and some part of my mind splintered. I started crying when things calmed just a little bit, and I tried to hide from him. He wouldn't let me. He held me, offered to stop everything, stroked my hair, etc. I calmed down after a short while and everything was okay. Of course, this is quite different from your situation, but it's about as close as I could get with my own experiences. I would say that it might help to talk to her about one of her more painful memories and see if you can turn one into something enjoyable. Some subs that were abused as children become pain sluts. Turning a traumatic memory into an enjoyable one can be wonderful. Of course, this isn't going to work in every situation and should definitely be done carefully. I myself am in therapy and have been for a few years now... it might help your girl some. Group therapy is a bit scary and less easy to do, but one on one with a good therapist is a very good idea. Give her time to find a therapist she can trust, however, if you do go that route. One thing I would like to add, with all due respect to LA: Gagging her and restraining her is not the way to go. It will force her to become even more animalistic, and it won't help any of her mental problems. Shoving the problem aside so that nothing physical will be damaged will only increase her mental struggle. Feel free to send me a note if you want, Sir. My best wishes for you and your girl.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 5:44:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rien One thing I would like to add, with all due respect to LA: Gagging her and restraining her is not the way to go. It will force her to become even more animalistic, and it won't help any of her mental problems. Shoving the problem aside so that nothing physical will be damaged will only increase her mental struggle. She'll tire herself out eventually, and you can't do any mental work when someone's acting like a fighting wolf. I never said or implied ANYTHING about shoving the problem aside. In fact in every post I've encouraged him to talk and ask her questions and figure it out together.

diamonddreamlove -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 9:45:20 PM)
Or hurt herself or You without the restraints and as a therapist i can tell You it is likely that her past jumped out at her, You know the stuff she doesn't want to remember. Talking to her and helping her remember when not sceneing can be helpful. I remember when i remembered long forgotten childhood abuse, and i can say my reaction was not pretty on the inside but was in a group and it was not safe to act out. Biting and thowing something would have felt wonderful. Only by the abuse becoming a conscious part of me was i able to deal with it. So as others have said talk, talk, and more talk it important.

mons -> RE: Sub drop? (9/1/2006 1:40:07 AM)
*greeting to all and the person how post* i am not ashamed for many years i was i was rape. abuse but my brother as a child and as an adlut. i am a domme and i know this is why i will not want to try being a submissive hye one day i may but i would be scare of what i would do when i were to come back from a sesion, i had a temper as a teen i fought so much. i did not ever ppick a fight but i made sure i ended it, i think all of you gave wondeful and true answer it is true this woman was abuse and hurt she was acting out her angry that she would not give out or act out. how painful it is to have abuse happen and to be lose for years not knowing what you are =, i think i fought to proect myself but i had not memory of it until about 7 years ago i saw mnay things my mother rape in front of me i told this before. i wonder would i go over board with my slave and lose control ? i am a domme for me not for the reason of my child hold i was told in therapy i had held down my angry to far and one day it will come out. this scares me tell me someone what do you think of this . i would need the help please *mons*

rien -> RE: Sub drop? (9/1/2006 4:18:59 AM)
I agree with you to a degree, Ma'am, but I could see her feeling that way even if that's not what's happening. I myself would. As much as I love restraints and such, if I were put into a cage, tied up and gagged for that sort of reason, it would drive me nuts. She might not be even vaguely coherent at the time, but she'll remember things. She could feel like it was her master shoving her aside. I would. Perhaps some restraints, but holding her in his arms instead would be better. At any rate, that's my view.

pqwinny -> RE: Sub drop? (9/1/2006 6:07:48 AM)
To the OP- You've gotten some good input so far but i want to add something. i saw a red flag when you mentioned that she had a difficult childhood, much of which she doesn't remember and doesn't care to. That coupled with the description of what you witnessed and her inability to respond to you in the midst of it sound like she may have developed some dissociative mechanisms to cope with trauma of some sort from her past. i'm not a therapist so this is just my opinion but i have had extensive personal exposure to exactly this sort of thing. I agree that communication is key going forward and if my hunch turns out to be correct, a good therapist will be in order - one with expertise in dissociative disorders - a bad therapist -one with the wrong expertise -can make matters worse or at the very least prolong the healing process. It sounds to me that you are doing all that you can as her partner, keep it up. But don't be afraid to turn to professionals if the need becomes apparent.

TitaniumWolf -> RE: Sub drop? (9/1/2006 12:16:13 PM)
Thank you A/all. We talked last night and I brought up the possiblity of therapy. She told me she would go if I made her, but she would rather not. She said she feels like I made progress (though unintended for that purpose) and asked me very prettily if we could try to work it out together. I love my "little girl" and have agree to it for now, but if in the future I feel that she would benifit best from a therapist, then she has to go. She has told me that the safest place in the world for her is in my arms, and asked me if she had to go if I would go with her. I told her that I would always be there for her but we would deal with that when the time comes. Let's hope it doesn't come. All in all though, I think things have actually gone well and we both look forward to our time together. Once again thank you A/all! TW

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