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BDSM and the law NZ advice sought - 1/4/2005 4:44:55 AM   
DaddyDeSade


Posts: 22
Joined: 12/5/2004
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I need information in NZ.. I have a sub, a good friend who is going through a very messy divorce. she has a protection order because it was a domestic violence situation. Her ex has no visitation no rights at all apparently.
They have started to build a cautious friendship. He has been instrumental in helping her shift from the house they shared to her own place. She is very passive and submissive so when he used helping her as an excuse to be around all the time she allowed it. She even thought he might have come to terms with the split and be ready to be friends.
Yesterday in a fit of honesty she told him about me and her interest in bdsm (they had explored a tiny bit together). This was not a good idea, but she did it. He seemed to take it quite well, not happy but accepting.
well today I called. I have called several times when he was over there this week. But this time he knew who I was.
He got very nasty. She ended up having to call the police to arrest him. He became very vindictive and told the police the whole thing about bdsm and that he was afraid for there son's safety.
The police to a certain extent sided with him and told her she should sever all ties to the community "for the good of your child. You know how those people prey on children"
She is now going to be investigated by child protective services because he has requested an investigation.
It is my understanding that even in NZ bdsm is a protected alternative sexuality and she is no more likely to lose her kids than she would be if she was gay.
It is my understanding that the days of people losing their children over this are past and the investigation will be cursory and will not be anything to worry about.
But I am an American and my impressions of NZ law can be flawed.
Can anyone give me some actual advice I can pass on. Anyone she can talk to in the legal field, anyone with actual information on what she can expect. (Apparently her dad is some respected Lawyer but she does not anticipate his support).
I am horrified that this investigation is even happening in this day and age. And she is of course rather traumatized by the very thought.
Thank you for any help or advice you can offer.
Ahze
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RE: BDSM and the law NZ advice sought - 1/4/2005 9:15:47 AM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
This thread may be of some help:

bdsm... and the law

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to DaddyDeSade)
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RE: BDSM and the law NZ advice sought - 1/4/2005 11:19:14 AM   
rubytuesday


Posts: 180
Joined: 10/22/2004
Status: offline
Great link proudsub but Im not sure how applicable it will be for DaddyDeSade - the laws in NZ are changing and also show a degree of freedom that the US doesnt yet have in some areas.

I dont know enough about ti to help but Im hoping if PaulNZ sees this he might have more infomration becuase he seems clued up on a lot of the legal type issues.

DaddyDeSade I hope things get sorted - I am seperated and have a submissive nature which has made things difficult becuase i still let my ex have more invovlement re visitation etc than I should which in turn lets him beleive he still has control - thats something I am trying to get on top of now becuase it will cause problems in the future - one more unplanned visit and I have warned him I will start with a trespass order but its not easy and I feel for your friend - if she does want to talk to someone in similiar shoes let me know - I also have had CYPS involvement and I do have a friend in the Police who I will ask some questions of in case he can help and if he knows anything I will let you know...........

smiles
ruby

(in reply to DaddyDeSade)
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RE: BDSM and the law NZ advice sought - 1/4/2005 3:51:12 PM   
Paulnz


Posts: 411
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quote:

I need information in NZ.. I have a sub, a good friend who is going through a very messy divorce. she has a protection order because it was a domestic violence situation. Her ex has no visitation no rights at all apparently.


As the guy has a restraining order out against him, he has few rights, and shouldn't even be on her property. Divorce in NZ is very simple. After 2 years separation you are divorced. There is no blame system in existence any more. Where it gets messy is in relation to matrimonial property and custody of the children. Whether legally married or not, straight or gay, all property becomes part of the relationship after 3 years.

Family Court proceedings are strictly confidential. Basically either partner can say whatever they like in the Family Court. This is where it gets risky for your friend. He will use the BDSM angle with the Judge and may succeed if the Judge is not sympathetic. Having said that, the Family Court puts the interests of the Child first, and this almost always means the Mother gets custody.

quote:

She ended up having to call the police to arrest him. He became very vindictive and told the police the whole thing about bdsm and that he was afraid for there son's safety.
The police to a certain extent sided with him and told her she should sever all ties to the community "for the good of your child. You know how those people prey on children"
She is now going to be investigated by child protective services because he has requested an investigation.


Having the police arrest him was very good as there will now be a record of his having defied a Court order. I would follow this up with a letter from a Solicitor advising him that any further breaches will result in an immediate call to the police, and his subsequent arrest. I would copy this to the police with a covering letter, pointing out that it is not appreciated having their officers advising on lifestyle choices. If he turns up again and the police attend the scene, it is more likely he would spend a night in jail, as he would have reoffended. It could be mentioned to the police that she fears for her safety, and this would make them search his vehicle, and if he has a gun, knife or anything that could be used as a weapon he could be charged with possessing an offensive weapon ( this DOES work ).

An investigation by CYF's is serious. Take it seriously. Be a model of decorum. They can take the children away indefinitely.


quote:

It is my understanding that even in NZ bdsm is a protected alternative sexuality and she is no more likely to lose her kids than she would be if she was gay.
It is my understanding that the days of people losing their children over this are past and the investigation will be cursory and will not be anything to worry about.
But I am an American and my impressions of NZ law can be flawed.


While NZ law is far more liberal than the USA, the Crimes Act can be a sobering read. The following are a list of possible BDSM crimes - indecency in a public place, assault, grievous bodily harm ( or attempt to cause, and/or conspiracy to cause ), manslaughter, bestiality, rape and murder.

Having said that the most famous case in relation to BDSM is the murder trial of dominatrix Renee Chignall ( the Peter Plumley Walker case ). This is the longest murder trial in Commonwealth history, and resulted in her acquittal. The brief facts of this case was the victim died while he was tied up and the dominatrix had left the room. The defense maintained that a murder couldn't have occurred as there was no intent on her part, and in any event he had consented. While it gives some encouragement I would counsel caution. Consent on its own would not be a good argument. If you intend to harm, and a complaint is laid, then you can be in serious trouble regardless of consent.

quote:

Can anyone give me some actual advice I can pass on. Anyone she can talk to in the legal field, anyone with actual information on what she can expect. (Apparently her dad is some respected Lawyer but she does not anticipate his support).
I am horrified that this investigation is even happening in this day and age. And she is of course rather traumatized by the very thought.
Thank you for any help or advice you can offer.
Ahze


As she has a lawyer father I would be surprised if she doesn't already have a good idea of who to contact. If she can't afford a good Solicitor, then try the Citizens Advice Bureau for starters. She could also go and see her local Member of Parliament and let CYF's know that she has done this !! Having an MP oversight on what a Government department is doing makes them watch themselves very carefully



< Message edited by Paulnz -- 1/4/2005 3:52:26 PM >

(in reply to DaddyDeSade)
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RE: BDSM and the law NZ advice sought - 1/4/2005 4:27:28 PM   
Nvernilla


Posts: 303
Joined: 10/1/2004
Status: offline
Hide everything pertaining to bdsm and have her say she hasn't any idea what they are talking about. If they can't prove it they can't do anything about it. And a word to the wise you better worry about this guy too. Whats the deal with him knowing in the first place did she tell him? If so you should reconsider your involvement with her Loose lips.....

(in reply to DaddyDeSade)
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RE: BDSM and the law NZ advice sought - 1/4/2005 6:08:20 PM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline
Good advice Paul and hello to a fellow New Zealander. DeSade I'd be happy to speak with her if she needs a shoulder to lean on. I am completely out with My lifestyle and have no qualms speaking to various 'authorities' about the lifestyle if she needs that kind of support.

Hopefully CYFS will be objective in their investigations and see the father's complaint is done out of a vendetta, especially if she explains he had also indulged in it during their marriage.

Best of luck to all.

Jasmyn

(in reply to Paulnz)
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