Letting go...online (Full Version)

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Bearlee -> Letting go...online (9/2/2006 9:29:59 AM)

“Letting Go….online”
 
Okay, I do not want to hijack twice’s thread with this…but it IS a similar dilemma:
 
I am contacted by a Dominant…we begin exchanging e-mails.  In a week we have shared several dozen and, I believe, are getting to know each other quite nicely.
 
He has said he can relocate after visits, or he has said he is a pilot and can come visit easily, or he IS fairly close; we can have a R/T relationship.  Regardless…I always make sure this is about real-time and not on-line….or cyber.
 
In several many cases of late, said Dom eventually begins to ask questions of ‘experiences’.  I pretty much see this as masturbatory fodder.  I will discuss anything…and do; but not, generally, in some sort of sensual way…but rather as discussion.  After all, HOW do people get to know each other?  Still, the reason I suggest it is masturbatory fodder is because some get pissy that I don’t trust their motives.
 
I’ve had them suggest I don’t trust them; that because I’ve discussed my on-line experiences with ‘wannabes’ that I am suggesting THEY are the same; that they cannot get to know me if I doubt their every word; that they are tired of my suggesting they are fake with comments like ‘…if you are the one’ or ‘if what you say’. 
 
Mind you…I am NOT stupid and I AM submissive.  I do not say such things.  I HAVE said things like… “I can’t wait to meet you to see if we ‘click’” and “…I hope things turn out as they seem for us" and the like.  I have never suggested one is lying.
 
The last guy added “At one time I had a vanilla person in my live as a friend that believe NOTNING anyone say as true. Everone was out to explote her... that a 'hell" friendship because you can't do anything say anything that is nott suspect  I will say she was manic depressive and under medication for it.   …I sorry you see me a fake   what a waste”
 
Sigh…I have NEVER said he (or anyone else who’s written IS a fake). 
 
I just wanna get to know each other BEFORE I submit, before I go into explicit sexual details, before I suggest I am his.  What ever happened to letter-writing?  Dang… It’s been a WEEK…
 
Do any of you folks, who’ve met your partners online, find that it is difficult to ‘let go’ of trust issues that ensue from online activities?  Surely real people are interested in real people…and want, actively, to get to KNOW a person?  NO?
 
Trolls not withstanding… I’m having a hard time figuring out if I’m having a difficult time letting go or not.  It seems to me it is the medium I do not trust…not the person; and I say it from time to time; to keep things REAL.  HOW is it I’m the one with the problem? DO I have a hard time letting go?  I wonder…
 
I'd appreciate your sincere comments.  I'm NOT discussing the one-liners we all get from time to time...I'm discussing a week's worth, or more, of correspondence here.  Thanks...
 
bearlee



SusanofO -> RE: Letting go...online (9/2/2006 9:36:55 AM)

Bearlee: I'm not seeking a partner yet, but I have exchanged e-mails with some men. On very rare occasions, they have delved into fantasy territory, and I have not been opposed to that, as long as it's not the substance of every e-mail. I mean, if we had a closer relationship, it would be fine. But as just a friend, it really should, I think, be only an occasional thing. And for me, it can be an educational thing (I am serious).

I have questions about some things, and sometimes when I've asked them of one or two people - it's been interpreted as me kind of wanting to talk about "masturbatory fodder" - when really what I was doing was just asking for information about an area of bdsm. When this happens, I just explain I am really wanting information. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't. If somebody just wants masturbatory fodder - there are porn sites and bdsm story sites to read. I sometimes read them myself. Maybe suggest that to them, as an option, in a nice way? I've done that. I see nothing wrong with discussing fantasies. But - if that is what I was looking for primarily, I could have listed it as a preference and stated that when I signed up here. I didn't - and if you didn't either, maybe they should take note of that. Or at least ask if you are interested (in which case, you could say "no, but thanks for asking").

However, if I were seeking a partner now, I would probably feel differently. I don't see it as a problem in that case, but, like mistoferin said, it would be a gradual development of trust in the other person before I revealed a whole lot of fantasy or preferences, or desires, in lurid detail.

- Susan



mistoferin -> RE: Letting go...online (9/2/2006 9:38:21 AM)

As far as I'm concerned, trust is not something that can develop online....not with me anyway. I absolutely will NOT discuss my sexual past, likes, dislikes, turn offs, turn ons or in detail experiences with anyone online. They try...and they push....and every attempt is met with the exact same response...."I'm sorry but I do not discuss those things online". Period.



stockingluvr54 -> RE: Letting go...online (9/2/2006 9:43:15 AM)

If it were me Bearlee....I'd just stick to my guns? If you feel uncomfortable in anyway.....maybe you shouldn't push it or bend to keep him happy? If he's any kind of man he'll understand and patiently wait till you're ready to take it up a notch...????



SirKenin -> RE: Letting go...online (9/2/2006 9:45:58 AM)

Well I see it as this.  Telling sex stories is not "letting go".  It sounds like the prick wants to jerk off.  I would think the same thing as you and it would be entirely reasonable.  I believe it to be even more so because this is the internet.  It is full of people with no lives that have nothing better to do and exactly why I do not seek online.

Correct Me if I am wrong, but I have NEVER, whether it be in person or online, seen describing intimate sexual experiences to be a mandatory criteria for getting to know someone.  I think he is playing on your overly strong desire to find someone, anyone, to meet your needs and is using it to his advantage.  I would tell the prick to go to www.porn.com to be honest with you.

From My own personal experience... I have been with My wife over a year and a half now.  Only last night (I kid you not) did we embark upon a very long discussion of our intimate sexual experiences.  Not because we wanted to get off, but because we have a no holds barred relationship, where we want no secrets, and we have just arrived at that point in our lives where we can.  We never discussed this up until now.   But the key difference here is that this is My WIFE...  Not some bozo I just met online.

If he is not happy keeping things above board and getting to know what REALLY makes you the person that you are, and sexual experiences do not define a woman unless they are a prostitute or something, then tell him to shove off, because you are just being played.  Simple as that.  Make the first move.



Bearlee -> RE: Letting go...online (9/2/2006 9:46:23 AM)

 
Thank you for your input!
 
Susan, I agree…such discussion CAN be educational, even when sensual in delivery.  And I agree that it’s not comfortable for me either, if it is the gist of every note.  I like porn, I like stories, I like fun exchanges and innuendo…but I am talking about the ‘getting to know you’ time with a new ….friend.
 
My question is about whether or not those of us interested in R/T relationships trust ‘online’ or not.
 
As erin suggested…I don’t believe much trust can be developed online.  As I told this last one… ACTIONS speak louder than words.  IF all he is interested in is salacious stories then perhaps he is not the man for me; but if he is interested in getting to know me…HOW he poses his questions and HOW he responds to my reactions tells all; no?
 
Again…am I being ridiculous and having a hard time ‘letting go’ or…am I just being realistic?  HOW do people let go and begin relationships (soon to be R/T) ...online?
 
bearlee



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Letting go...online (9/2/2006 9:49:41 AM)

I've never had a problem because the people I meet from offline DON'T try and push those boundaries.  They understand what sensible online communication is before we meet offline and stick to it. 

You're experiencing what happens when you say no to them- some get huffy, some try and wear you down, some try and be poor me- and they all try and say it's something YOU are lacking.

When the reality is that it's something THEY are lacking and you should just be happy that they select themselves out of your pool for you.



SirKenin -> RE: Letting go...online (9/2/2006 9:51:09 AM)

Heh.  You develop a relationship online by talking to the person. About nonsense at first.  Then as time goes on you find out where the common interests lie and start exploring those avenues.  You talk more and more about your life and arrange a time to meet for a coffee or beer.  At the meeting you will know if there is a connection there, it will be obvious (the first time My wife and I met she sat down beside Me and snuggled in under My arm that was wrapped around her.  We sat like that for a good long time).



Bearlee -> RE: Letting go...online (9/2/2006 9:53:22 AM)

<smiles>   As usual SirKenin, you are delightfully blunt.  I like that!
 
And yes, while I DO have (overly?) strong desires to find someone…I’ve been around the block a time or two and like my life just as it is.  Sharing a D/s or M/s relationship would be breathtaking; sharing it with just anybody would not be.
 
I do not only search online.  I am open to life as I live my own.  I’m still curious, though, as to how folks, in real-time D/s or M/s relationships began their relationships; especially if they DID meet…online? 
 
Did you have a hard time letting go ...and trusting?
 
bear



SusanofO -> RE: Letting go...online (9/2/2006 9:53:49 AM)

I had a friend tell me here at CM that he tries to progress to seeing if the other person will be willing to contact them via phone as soon as possible, to make sure they exist as a real person. Hearing their voice does this for him. I agree, at least that way you can make sure they are the gender they are claiming to be, if nothing else. If all this person you refer to wants to discuss is sex and bdsm, I think there is a lot more to "getting to know" someone else than that. I'd be turned off. if they wanted to discuss it after knowing me better, it would not be a turn off.

I realize it's a judgment call on the part of a Dominant, but, there is nothing impolite or unDomly (I don't think) about just coming out and asking somone: "Would you feel comfortable discussing X__" if there is a quesiton about it possibly being uncomfortabe (which, many times, they could safely assume, there might be). But there is no harm in asking, I don't think - and hopefully, they'd feel free to do that. Some people think they are just being flirty, and may not be aware they are offending. Some may know, and just not care.

**Maybe you can even suggest this (asking if it's okay?) as a way of "making things more comfortable" for you, if they don't bring it up? It's forward, sure, but it might solve the issue, and everyone could maybe breathe a little easier, then? I f they still get upset after that, I'd just write them off.  

I realize this situation can be awkward, but surely many Doms have run into this before with a person they think they may want to become "more serious" with. If they can't handle getting over this "little hurdle", it would make me wonder about them, in a way. Hopefully, they'd be talking about real-life things besides bdsm and sex scenes, to "get to know you" in-between asking you a question like that, though.

- Susan     



Bearlee -> RE: Letting go...online (9/2/2006 10:00:59 AM)

LOL… I understand you to say you don’t consider it a ‘meet’ till you ‘meet’ in person, then!  HA…good thinking!

I would agree…there is sensible online communication and there is trolling.  I don’t meet trolls, either.

Thank you, LA, for pointing out that perhaps THEY are lacking…and their own actions are their removal from my ‘pool’.  When this happens, generally I just shrug and chock it up to yet another online-experience. 

Still, it seems a shame; surely there ARE people who make this work.

Like SirK!  awwwwwwww... Thank you, Sir!!!  (understanding your wife was not some bozo you just met online...DID you meet her online?)

bearlee



Homestead -> RE: Letting go...online (9/2/2006 10:06:05 AM)

It's not real till it's real.



Bearlee -> RE: Letting go...online (9/2/2006 10:07:05 AM)

Yup, I do the phone thing asap, too Susan; and (for example) this latest guy and I did talk yesterday.  He was absolutely delightful and I told him so…on call and in e-mail.
 
As far as topics go…I DO talk about anything (surely you all have seen this on the boards?)…but often in a more ‘conversational’ way than in a sensual (read that pornographic) way.  There is nothing I would refuse to answer or discuss.
 
Like you, Susan…I just think it should all be in the context of ‘getting to know’ and not some cyber exchange.  (and thank you for your comments, here)
 
I really don’t think I have a hard time ‘letting go’ with regard to most things…but online trust IS an issue; I guess I just don’t consider it real till I see the whites of their eyes.  THAT would be why I just say ‘no’ to online relationships. 
 
Again…more comments on ‘letting go, online?’  HOW does it happen?



Homestead -> RE: Letting go...online (9/2/2006 10:13:25 AM)

It doesn't with me. I have had too many waste my time and just go poof.



Kree -> RE: Letting go...online (9/2/2006 10:20:20 AM)

Bearlee,

I have always felt that a submissive's life is one of questions and doubts.  As a relationship develops, the questions and doubts fade, but they are always out there in the shadows.  To me, it is the responsibility and the duty of the dominant to identify the questions and doubts through listening, questioning, and understanding what is going on the the submissive's mind.  This is a difficult task for both parties.  It requires that the submissive develop the trust it takes to bring forth their questions and express their doubts.  It further requires that the dominant understand that the questions and doubts must be discussed and resolved to allow growth.  This is not an easy task for either party when they are trying to do this online.  If two people have a potental connection online, it is wise to meet as soon as possible to begin the discussions necessary to move deeper into a relationship.  When meeting in person might not be immediately possible, the two must at least move to the phone.  The phone doesn't allow the depth of contact, but it is somewhat better than the coldness of the keyboard.

Having said all of that, I feel that the dominant has the onus to create an atmosphere that allows talks, discussions, and meetings.  If someone seems serious, but they are not willing to spend the time and effort to allay fears, I would see that as a red flag.  If the idea is to meet only to play, that is their perogative, but it should not get confused with the beginning of a relationship.  If play is all that matters; play.  If there is a potential for more and a desire for more, spend the time and do it right.    



SusanofO -> RE: Letting go...online (9/2/2006 10:21:41 AM)

Bearlee: I think because of the lack of ability inhernet in the on-line medium to detect things like another person's mood, intent, facial expressions, voice inflection, etc. - that can convey so much meaning, as far as the intent of their writing, there might need to be some allowances made for that, that aren't made in the physical, off-line world (simply because they aren't necessary, because the person is right in front of you, in that case). To me, this means making more lee-way, not less, (or the same) for the fact that some things may be mis-interpreted by the other, etc. But some people probably don't see it that way.

I am not seeking an on-line only relationship, but if I was, I'd think it would involve more second-chances, sometimes, as far as asking someone: "Did you mean this?" if something wasn't clear...unless the other person was an out-right a__hole and rude in other ways. Hopefully, many would know discussing things like you describe involves a progression of getting to know someone - but - that "progression" and how fast it evolves is going to vary by person. Which is why I think coming out and inquiring of someone: "Is discussing this something you're okay with? " is never a bad idea. Coming from either person.

- Susan 



mstrjx -> RE: Letting go...online (9/2/2006 10:52:51 AM)

Well, I had a nice reply here, but CM timed me out and it's gone.

But it was a pro-online bent, rather than anti-online.

If you want to know more, ask.  I'm sorry.

Jeff



darkinshadows -> RE: Letting go...online (9/2/2006 11:01:27 AM)

I think something to consider is that you (generic) come onto a forum like this, and discuss past experiences and offer advice and to be honest, that can be masturbatory fodder to some people.  The images we post, people get off on.  The words we write, people get off on.  So the reality is, that sharing some experiences with someone you are growing fond of isn't about getting your rocks off, its about exploration and discovery... and if its just an experience your sharing and not getting into deep and expletive descriptions, I don't see the harm and I don't see that it's any worse to what people might ask or write here.
 
Truth is - you do whats comfortable to you.  If it doesnt make you comfortable to discuss such matters, then the thought should be made as to why?  Does he not make you feel comfortable enough or is it the stigma that could be attatched?  Is it the amount of info that is required?  Is he being pushy and like Em said - huffy about you just simple saying no.
 
Do I trust online relationships?  I have some good online friends yes.  And the majority I have met and have really good offline relationships with.  I think its about trusting yourself and your instincts, rather than others.  If someone wants something your not willing to give online, and they make you feel bad because of it, then trust that instinct and forget the relationship.  The stress isnt worth it.
 
Peace and Rapture



Bearlee -> RE: Letting go...online (9/2/2006 11:11:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

Heh.  You develop a relationship online by talking to the person. About nonsense at first.  Then as time goes on you find out where the common interests lie and start exploring those avenues.  You talk more and more about your life and arrange a time to meet for a coffee or beer. 
 
Just to be clear, I am not 'anti-online'...just want real-time.  That in mind...I'm always clear to suggest a phone call soon and meeting asap.  I decline LDRs. 
 
What I AM talking about is this time BEFORE the meet.  HOW is it you assure each other you are real, not fake?  HOW is it you 'let go' and really get to know each other?
 
I'm with many people here; it is NOT with 'cyber-talk' but with 'small talk' combined with genuine conversation of wants, desires and expectations.
 
Having said this...all my conversations are with this in mind, upfront.  I'm just curious HOW this happens...    AND, believe this conversation might be good for some persons who get impatient with 'online'.  Ya know?  Aren't we (forum posters) teachers, too?)
 
bear
 
mstrjx; I usually write longer posts in a word processor and paste here...my spelling is THAT bad (and Cm can be impatient, too!)



mstrjx -> RE: Letting go...online (9/2/2006 11:13:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

mstrjx; I usually write longer posts in a word processor and paste here...my spelling is THAT bad (and Cm can be impatient, too!)


Lesson learned.  I need a spanking.  I'll re-do in a while.  It'll be good.

Jeff



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