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Thinking for myself - 1/4/2005 10:28:37 PM   
subtexxxt


Posts: 20
Joined: 12/8/2004
Status: offline 		Hello,


i'm experiencing something that i thought would be a good topic here.

i'm in the begginings of a true Mistress/slave relationship -- eventually going as far as tpe 24/7 as possible. For right now everything i do is to go through my Owner [minutae excluded] my day, purchases, permission to go out with friends or not etc.

However from being on my own since my youth doing things on my own and solving problems for myself is just my nature. So of course situations have arisen where i made decisions for myself and thought nothing of it until She bought it to my attention -- then i saw the error of my ways. It's happened a few times -- a big mistake recently on my part and my Owner is very loving and paitent with me but it hurts me to dissapoint Her.

Does anyone have any suggestions/practices to get out of this mode?

i'm not expecting any magic changes in a day or two but could use some help from those that have possiblly been where i am now.

respectfully,

subtexxxt
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Thinking for myself - 1/5/2005 6:01:55 AM   
alwayzron


Posts: 234
Joined: 9/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

She bought it to my attention -- then i saw the error of my ways.

Was it an "error in your ways", or mismatched expectations on her part?

I would recommend she provide you with a 'contract' (if I could use that term) telling you what she expects from you and what is or isn't acceptable behavior on your part. Or ... you can continue to 'wing it' and learn from your mistakes, which can be fun too. In that case, she needs to differentiate between errors on your part and obvious insubordination.

_____________________________

Either life is funny, or people are stupid. And I'm laughing less and less at life these days.

(in reply to subtexxxt)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Thinking for myself - 1/5/2005 6:27:50 AM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline 		Midear Texxxt-

'Zron's suggestion of a contract is a good one- My contracts usually start off by noting the 'carve-outs' -places where I will not assert any authority (primarily family, friends, finaces and carreer). I also break down a few other issues into 'standing orders' and case-by-case situtations.

In general, as a dominant, I consider autonomous action in situation on a subject's part to be a failure on my part, provided I had failed to make my wishes clear, so hopefully, she doesn't see these missteps as being a fault in your submission, but rather one of communication.

Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to subtexxxt)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Thinking for myself - 1/5/2005 6:36:57 AM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		All I see is you are learning to give up control...you can either trust in your Owner and try your best at all times...or baulk at the change and act it out with your behaviour by trying to retain some control over your life. Try not second guessing why She is asking this of you but just go with it and trust in Her. Small daily rituals can help keep your mind focused but ultimately it is your own mindset shifting that will facilitate any change.

Good luck.

Jasmyn

(in reply to subtexxxt)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Thinking for myself - 1/5/2005 6:41:49 AM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		From the author's post I don't think having or not having a contract is the problem as it is clear from his words that what *is* required of him has already being clearly communicated.

As a tool to aid his submission a hard copy signed contract could be useful if his Mistress hasn't already asked it of him.


(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Thinking for myself - 1/5/2005 10:56:06 AM   
silverlining


Posts: 4
Joined: 12/16/2004
Status: offline 		Perhaps my response is somewhat different. If you are new to slavery, even if your Mistress is abundantly clear in her expectations, and you agree with those expectations and desire to fulfill them, there are so many things you are just not used to yet, and you will engage in old behaviors out of reflex.

Explain to your mistress that you need her help. She might want to catch you when you're doing something and before telling you she may want you to figure it out on your own. She may want you to keep a journal so that you can explore your mental framework. I've actually asked my Master to discipline me because (for me personally) NOTHING works to make me remember something like having my back cropped until tears run down my face and my Master has me repeat why I'm being punished.

Give it time. :) If you love your Mistress like i love my Master, time and effort will smooth it out.

Blessings,
silverlining

(in reply to Jasmyn)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Thinking for myself - 1/5/2005 12:57:52 PM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		I myself could never live like that i think, not being abel to think for myself. I obey my master but i am also my own person, as for your question somthing come to mind from the books of Alister Crowley. Try to pinch yourself hard everytime you think unapropriatly, Alister Crowly used to cut himself but that is a littel extreme in my tastes, and the mind will soon learn.

(in reply to silverlining)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Thinking for myself - 1/5/2005 12:58:06 PM   
INSIDEYOURMIND


Posts: 483
Status: offline 		There are times when I see my sub become conflicted, it is a natural response to a derivation of her normal behavior. When she has to do something that is not the way she used to do it, she has a moment at times where I see it in her eyes. This has become less and less, as our relationship matures.

At times I see her correct herself, and at times I see the need to correst her.

Keep the lines of communication well open between yourself, and your Dom. Only through good communication, and an occasionally sore ass, will you begin to understand.

_____________________________

If I got smart with you.................
How would you know?

(in reply to silverlining)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Thinking for myself - 1/5/2005 1:06:44 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

For right now everything i do is to go through my Owner [minutae excluded] my day, purchases, permission to go out with friends or not etc.


subtexxxt,

Assuming you are real time....

Did you have permission to post this?

Is your definition of excluded 'minutia' (I assume that's what you meant, 'minutiae' is also an acceptable spelling) the same as hers?

Just two, of many, points that should be addressed from your post when looking at it from the perspective of being owned. The most concerning may be; why aren't you comfortable asking and getting your answers from her?

Your concern is legitimate, you identify your relationship as new, this should be the time when your every concern is communicated with her. Of course she could want and require you to seek others opinions and perspectives, but her rule is yours, she defines the boundaries.

Good luck and enjoy the experience. You can learn plenty from these threads and the people her, but the only course for you to concern yourself is the one set by your owner. As others have said, having written rules or even a contract is good place to start; if only for the sake of reference or performance expectations. I find having rules essential.

By the way, I think there is a 'magic change' that occurs in the mind of a owned slave. It comes when you can't even think the thought or conceptualize being insecure that your decisions displease your owner. Magic comes when the thought of disobeying or displeasing her hurts you more then ANY punishment she administers.

(in reply to subtexxxt)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Thinking for myself - 1/5/2005 5:39:20 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

However from being on my own since my youth doing things on my own and solving problems for myself is just my nature. So of course situations have arisen where i made decisions for myself and thought nothing of it until She bought it to my attention -- then i saw the error of my ways. It's happened a few times -- a big mistake recently on my part and my Owner is very loving and paitent with me but it hurts me to dissapoint Her.


I've read this thread in it's entirety. It has brought questions to me about myself.
In the public world I have always been someone in complete control. In my private life I have always's sought out someone to balance me out. Someone to give my submission to.
Which is where my question comes in. What control is there to give up?
Sure, I also make the mistake now and then. It is genuine. Yet, I have never once altered who I am.
I guess by the replies I am a different breed of person. So, this thread has enlightened me. Made me ask myself some questions.
All in all an excellent thread.

(in reply to subtexxxt)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Thinking for myself - 1/5/2005 6:30:04 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

In the public world I have always been someone in complete control. In my private life I have always's sought out someone to balance me out. Someone to give my submission to.
Which is where my question comes in. What control is there to give up?


Gloria,
Giving an opinion, or offering a different perspective to someone you know and see is difficult. But I know you to appreciate honest opinions so I hope you will consider my response in the general terms that it is given.

Subtly, your statement that I quoted, indicates a dominant personality - not a submissive one. Remove for a minute the consideration of the physical, the slap of a paddle or the spanking, whatever. More than someone to submit to are your desiring someone to take care of you? You don't need to be submissive for that. beth takes care of me like none other ever has.

I've experienced quite a few submissives whose idea of submission was being tied up, blindfolded, and played with for hours. Well hell - take away the ropes and I'd enjoy lying back and enjoying someone else pleasuring me for hours too!

The physical, or spanking stage comes as 'payment' for the pleasure, even if it comes before the pleasure. Mistakes come into play. Without mistakes there would be no need for divorce courts, or in the case of Robert Blake - handguns. The biggest mistake is surrendering to the easy path, rationalizing, becoming reactive instead of proactive in your life. Project - What are the consequences of my choice, tomorrow, next week, next year, 10 years from now? Set your goal based upon how much you like the honest answers.

subtexxxt here is presenting the biggest reason why, prior to beth, I never had a slave. It isn't romantic or even practical for someone to turn their life over to someone else. Reality is not the romance of an Anne Rice novel. slaves don't automatically get 'wet' at every word from their owners, every rule doesn't fit into the practical daily life of a slave. Would you be prepared to ask permission for every time you needed to use the bathroom? If you smoke, every time you wanted to light up, every time you needed a drink? Even on the other side - are you prepared to be asked these questions every time the need arises and you are together?

What control can you give up? All or none. Who knows, maybe the control of identifying as a sub. What is more 'natural'; you in control or you surrendering - surrendering completely? That's the 'control' that you can give up.

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Thinking for myself - 1/5/2005 8:38:39 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Subtly, your statement that I quoted, indicates a dominant personality - not a submissive one. Remove for a minute the consideration of the physical, the slap of a paddle or the spanking, whatever. More than someone to submit to are your desiring someone to take care of you? You don't need to be submissive for that. beth takes care of me like none other ever has.


Actually, that is the primary reason I never got married. I do not need anyone to take care of me at all. See, I don't tell many this but my very first boyfriend and I were engaged. Well a drunk driver took care of that for us. I realized then and there at a very young age it doesn't matter who you are or what circumstances you may think you have. They can all be taken away at a moments notice. So, learn to take care of yourself first and foremost because you never know when you may need to do so.
Submissive or Dominant trait it is a fact of life.




Would you be prepared to ask permission for every time you needed to use the bathroom? If you smoke, every time you wanted to light up, every time you needed a drink? Even on the other side - are you prepared to be asked these questions every time the need arises and you are together?

Actually, ever ask us about our relationship? So, I think the answer is yes I've been asking for the greater part of 16 years now. With my old Dom as well.



What control can you give up? All or none. Who knows, maybe the control of identifying as a sub. What is more 'natural'; you in control or you surrendering - surrendering completely? That's the 'control' that you can give up.


It is more of a balancing act to me. Which is what I already stated. I am very much in control in many aspects of my life in the public forum. Look at Paddlers. Who do you think runs it? Think Doug helps me even in the smallest amount? Yet, when alone I can be me. No harsh front anymore. Just me.
I also take no offense to your comments. After all we've never had that talk yet...

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Thinking for myself - 1/5/2005 9:13:50 PM   
LaMspeach


Posts: 794
Joined: 12/4/2004
From: Philadelphia area, PA
Status: offline 		Merc and beth you bought up some questions that i often ask myself.

quote:

What control can i give up?


It is more natural for me to give up control then to take control but being a single mom and Owned by a Master that lives about 2 hours from me. It isn't always possible or practical for me to believe or want Him to control me completely... so I have given Him complete control and He has delegated some of that control back to me. For example He doesn't control nor do i have to ask if i can do something related to my kids but i do have to ask if i can go to a BDSM event. i have been given rules, i am expected to follow them ... i also know that these rules can change and he can take away privileges anytime he wants to. When i am in doubt and not sure what to do in a situation i always stop just for a moment and try to ask myself what would He want me to do. Being able to think for myself in my situation is a must.

quote:

Does anyone have any suggestions/practices to get out of this mode?

Everytime you want to take that control back and make decisions on your own STOP for a moment and think… what would she have me do and then follow thought... it hasn't failed me yet .. i hope this helps

Always remember... it is what works for you and the people involved in your relationship, there are no set rules or definitions.



_____________________________

peach ~ LordandMasters devoted alpha slave
"Only when the year has grown cold does one know that the pine and cypress are the last to wither"



(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Thinking for myself - 1/6/2005 12:55:05 AM   
subtexxxt


Posts: 20
Joined: 12/8/2004
Status: offline 		E/everyone -- Y/your posts have me considering alot.

First let me answer some questions that have been asked here.

i set up a surprise evening for my Mistress - a few days before the event i told Her about it and She was very upset that i didn't ask permission to even see if She wanted to be surprised. Reluctanly She went through with the surprise and told me my motive was sincere and appreciated it but the act of presumption was totally out of place. i honestly had never thought of it in that manner -- just wanting to please Her -- when i saw Her point i felt ashamed. She told me not to dwell on it becasue it wouldn't help things, i have tried not to but thought i could use some advice.

W/we are real time and W/we don't have a contract - She has been very busy and is working on one -- but as the more time passes i see why the contract would help but don't want to say anything as if i am pushing Her.

i've been DYING to do a journal but She instructed me not to do so until She told me to.

no i have not asked permission to post here and to be honest, until having that question posed to me Sir i had thought that i would just get sound advice here to give me some perspective in dealing with this but now i am beginning to see how that is AGAIN me solving things on my own -- geeez.

i can say that i know that Her intent is not to change me into some "automaton" but to have me put Her first in ALL things i do, feel and think and i belive i am certainly capable of this.

humbly,

subtexxxt


(in reply to LaMspeach)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Thinking for myself - 1/6/2005 6:31:29 AM   
cynnacent1


Posts: 340
Joined: 6/25/2004
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

Does anyone have any suggestions/practices to get out of this mode?

For me, it started with an awareness at all times of being His, being aware that my purpose is to obey and please Him and that He chooses what defines that. It also includes that i am expected to communicate & ask questions of Him only for the reason of better understanding, not as a method of challenging Him. If anything regarding His demands of me are confusing and/or my purpose in regard to His expectations are not entirely understood, i may discuss it with Him and i must always remember that although my opinion will always be considered, He has the final decision regarding anything and everything.

In accepting all of this, my total trust that He is capable of, honorable and worthy in having such control ... is key.

i'm certain that in remembering all of this at all times, my behavior has been modified in ways that have resulted in my not needing to be corrected by Him nearly as often.

quote:

However from being on my own since my youth doing things on my own and solving problems for myself is just my nature.

This statement fits me well also. Being a submissive does not mean being 'incapable' of being self sufficient. During most times in my life it has been required as a means of survival. From a very young age it was set in my mind that i should be *capable* of standing on my own two feet in order to be happy with myself and comfortable... i can, ... i have... i am. i am submissive, i am not weak, not a follower, not needy, not unintelligent, not powerless, nor one to be taken advantage of etc.

i am definitely one who takes great pleasure in pleasing. i do not feel any need nor desire to try to please EVERYONE. SOME give me reason to want to submit, SOME give me reason to tell them to kiss my sweet submissive ass. The need to submit, and the enjoyment i feel in doing so, is only experienced with those who i know can and will appreciate & honor, rather than take advantage of all that makes me who i am as a submissive woman/female (same thing ).

¸,ø¤º°cynnacent°º¤ø,¸ (proudly owned by, and devoted to INSIDEYOURMIND)


< Message edited by cynnacent1 -- 1/6/2005 6:35:24 AM >

_____________________________

Current imood of cynnacent1: [image]http://moods.imood.com/display/uname=cynnacent1/fg=339999ns=1/imood.gif[/image] Click the smiley to get your very own imood indicator.

(in reply to subtexxxt)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Thinking for myself - 1/6/2005 7:40:43 AM   
RealityFix


Posts: 156
Joined: 8/12/2004
Status: offline 		The answer to this is always quite clear.

Know the desires of your Owner, and do not "second guess" them. If in doubt ask,if no answer is given, do not act.

This in no way means you do not think for yourself,that's quite impossible. It DOES mean you always think of your owner BEFORE yourself, and set that priority very firmly in your mind.

Get used to the fact that "doing your own thing" is now a thing of the past.

< Message edited by RealityFix -- 1/6/2005 7:41:33 AM >

(in reply to cynnacent1)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Thinking for myself - 1/6/2005 8:01:36 AM   
INSIDEYOURMIND


Posts: 483
Status: offline
quote:

Get used to the fact that "doing your own thing" is now a thing of the past


You may want to look at it this way, being a submissive is still "doing your own thing".

Your thing is being submissive!

_____________________________

If I got smart with you.................
How would you know?

(in reply to RealityFix)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Thinking for myself - 1/6/2005 12:00:38 PM   
ruffnecksbabygir


Posts: 412
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline 		i know what subtexxxt is going through, i am there now...i am going from being completely independant, a divorced mom, on my own for quite some time now, use to doing things for myself, making my own decisions, and just watching out for myself at all times.....i had a failed Master/slave relationship some years ago and part of the reason was i just did not feel i could completely submit to him, i could not give up that control. With my Master now however, i have been dealing with this issue since the start, and i have to say i have gotten much better at it and once you begin to really trust your Dom/me and begin letting your guard down and becoming more and more aware that you belong to that person in every sense, when you start acting without questioning, you begin feeling the incredibly intense satisfaction that we can find in a D/s relationship...i have also always been a major worrier, i worry about everything, through my Master i am starting to catch myself when i start to worry about something, and almost instantly i stop myself and tell myself it isn't my job to worry, because that would mean i am in control of that situation, and i am not, He is...it's really incredibly liberating, for me at least, just surrending myself in that matter, specially for somene like me that was always constantly worrying.... i agree with many here who say it doesn't mean you don't think for yourself anymore, you are thinking, and you are choosing to submit to her, so let her lead and allow yourself to truly submit and surrender control, you will get more use to it and believe me, the satisfaction will be as intensly for you as it is for her.
~good luck~

_____________________________

~hugs~
Babygirl

:Disclaimer: The above is only this slave's opinion:

"And Those Who Danced Were Thought To Be Quite Insane By Those Who Could Not Hear The Music" -- Angela Monet

(in reply to INSIDEYOURMIND)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Thinking for myself - 1/6/2005 7:51:34 PM   
sterlingsweet


Posts: 180
Joined: 8/10/2004
Status: offline 		Hello subtexxxt,

I can really relate with what you are struggling with.
I got very little direction from my parents, so learned very quickly how to figure things out by myself.

With my first Mistress it was hard for me get out of the ingrained habit of doing that.
But with time and persistance of reminding myself and the building of trust, I was eventually able to let go and let Her.

It is not an easy endeavor, for those of us that basically raised ourselves, but I now hope that I will be much better at this in my next relationship.

Good Luck to you...

_____________________________

Who Let the Dommes Out?? (I'd like to Thank them).
~Wink

Peace Out...Sterlingsweet

I finally got my cuffs,
I hope to use them soon ~wink

(in reply to subtexxxt)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Thinking for myself - 1/6/2005 9:51:04 PM   
kyakitten


Posts: 145
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

In the public world I have always been someone in complete control. In my private life I have always's sought out someone to balance me out. Someone to give my submission to.
Which is where my question comes in. What control is there to give up?

quote:


...Subtly, your statement that I quoted, indicates a dominant personality - not a submissive one. Remove for a minute the consideration of the physical, the slap of a paddle or the spanking, whatever. More than someone to submit to are your desiring someone to take care of you? You don't need to be submissive for that. beth takes care of me like none other ever has.


Dang, Merc, your posts always make me think too much!


< Message edited by kyakitten -- 10/5/2005 9:00:11 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 20
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