RE: A bit of news (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: A bit of news (9/4/2006 6:41:59 AM)

It is, I suppose.  Have you ever seen the movie, "Breaker Morant"?  Kinda like that.   The Abu Grabe thing, you think a fuckin' sergeant cooked that up?  People much higher up cooked it up and were very goddam aware of it and they are free and given commendations for their actions, or at worst told to retire on full salary and say no more, nudge nudge wink wink.

Why let the capo di tutti capi go?  There is where I take issue with it.

Furthermore, some of the field stuff is not so cut and dried when you are there.

Captain comes up to you and says, 'shoot these motherfuckers', what do you do? You just waltzed in the place.  You are the closest NCO at hand which usually means the stupidest.  Who knows what went on, and you ain't gonna say, Why you wanna be hating on these enemy, Cap'n?
You shoot the motherfuckers, poor luck for you that it gets  witnessed by the API.  The officer didn't dirty his hands.  What the fuck can you say, but; I was following orders?


Ron




Level -> RE: A bit of news (9/4/2006 6:45:22 AM)

For further reading, from GQ magazine, an article about Sgt. Joseph Darby, the man who blew the whistle on the whole Abu Ghirab mess.

http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_4785




meatcleaver -> RE: A bit of news (9/4/2006 6:53:16 AM)

Good article. This is one of my problems when it comes to putting lower ranks on trial. Most crimes in war seem to stem from ill discipline so why aren't COs court martialed for their failings?




bills944 -> RE: A bit of news (9/4/2006 6:54:47 AM)

 

Poll: Americans Want Bush Impeached
by David Swanson
Tue Oct 11, 2005 at 02:10:40 PM PDT

Poll: Americans Favor Bush's Impeachment If He Lied about Iraq
By a margin of 50% to 44%, Americans want Congress to consider impeaching President Bush if he lied about the war in Iraq, according to a new poll commissioned by AfterDowningStreet.org, a grassroots coalition that supports a Congressional investigation of President Bush's decision to invade Iraq in 2003.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/10/11/171040/56




Level -> RE: A bit of news (9/4/2006 6:56:31 AM)

I don't know, Meatcleaver. I can only think that the lower you are on the ladder, the less power you wield, so the more likely you are to take a hit, the same if you're involved in a corporate crime, often. It certainly isn't fair, is it.




bills944 -> RE: A bit of news (9/4/2006 7:04:05 AM)




Local Costs of the Iraq War
[image]http://nationalpriorities.org/images/M_images/printButton.png[/image]
[image]http://nationalpriorities.org/images/M_images/emailButton.png[/image]



Tuesday, 15 August 2006


Click on a state to find a list of the cities, towns and counties for which we have calculated the taxpayer cost of the Iraq War. For more information about the cost of the Iraq War, and what to do if you don't find your hometown, click here.

http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=61









The taxpayer cost of the Iraq War is broken down for various towns, cities and counties across the U.S. The breakdown is based on a total cost of $318.5 billion. That is $2,844 for every American household or $1,075 for every American. The money (already spent or allocated) is being spent at a rate $10 million per hour and $244 million per day.

The estimate is based on an NPP analysis of the legislation appropriating money for the Iraq War and a report published by the Congressional Research Service (CRS) in June 2006. The CRS report was based not just on Congressional appropriations, but on the Department of Defense's (DOD) DFAS monthly obligations reports indicating funds transferred from other functions to the Iraq War.

The state-level costs in the table are computed based on how much each state contributes in tax revenues, according to IRS data. The local-level costs are based on the state costs, and on relative population and income levels in each location. These numbers were updated for the latest IRS data in May 2005. The population and household amounts are based on Census Bureau estimates: population for July 1, 2005; households for 2004. The taxpayer amount is based on IRS projected taxfilers for the 2005 tax year.

NPP will calculate the value for your town or county if you send us a request including your name, address, contact information, and any group with which you are affiliated (if any) and how you intend to use the information.

Last Updated ( Tuesday, 15 August 2006 )




mnottertail -> RE: A bit of news (9/4/2006 7:05:45 AM)

Lev and Meat,

That is the essence in your last couple posts why I am not in favor of the death penalty for common GIs.  When there is an ongoing clear tradition of these things, you know the guys going to the whack are just saps, overall.

If you want to walk the chain and slaughter ALL the dogs, then I would accept the average GI getting it, just a casualty of war  in  another way.

There are many casualties of war. Most of which do not show up on the radar, and not in the newspaper or the tv.

Ron




peterK50 -> RE: A bit of news (9/4/2006 7:08:12 AM)

Countries that have to death penalty are in the minority by about 3 to 1.




Level -> RE: A bit of news (9/4/2006 7:11:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Lev and Meat,

That is the essence in your last couple posts why I am not in favor of the death penalty for common GIs.  When there is an ongoing clear tradition of these things, you know the guys going to the whack are just saps, overall.

If you want to walk the chain and slaughter ALL the dogs, then I would accept the average GI getting it, just a casualty of war  in  another way.

There are many casualties of war. Most of which do not show up on the radar, and not in the newspaper or the tv.

Ron



*emphasis added*

Very true Ron.... war and much of life, I guess, leaves a nasty wake.




bills944 -> RE: A bit of news (9/4/2006 7:17:32 AM)












[image]http://nationalpriorities.org/templates/npp01/images/npp_logo.gif[/image]
http://costofwar.com/index.html[image]http://nationalpriorities.org/templates/npp01/images/npp_tagline.gif[/image]




http://costofwar.com/index.html
The War in Iraq Costs
$312,045,773,451


See the cost in your community:


Entire U.S.AlabamaAlaskaArizonaArkansasCaliforniaColoradoConnecticutDelawareDistrict of ColumbiaFloridaGeorgiaHawaiiIdahoIllinoisIndianaIowaKansasKentuckyLouisianaMaineMarylandMassachusettsMichiganMinnesotaMississippiMissouriMontanaNebraskaNevadaNew HampshireNew JerseyNew MexicoNew YorkNorth CarolinaNorth DakotaOhioOklahomaOregonPennsylvaniaRhode IslandSouth CarolinaSouth DakotaTennesseeTexasUtahVermontVirginiaWashingtonWest VirginiaWisconsinWyoming Entire U.S.Per HouseholdPer Person






Or compare to the cost of:


PRE-SCHOOL
KIDS' HEALTH
COLLEGE SCHOLARSHIPS
PUBLIC HOUSING
PUBLIC EDUCATION



Notes and Sources
Embed a counter in your own web page!
Set up an LED counter on Main Street in your town.




In April, 2003 an intergenerational team of Niko Matsakis of Boston, MA and Elias Vlanton of Takoma Park, MD created costofwar.com. After maintaining it on their own for the first year, they gave it to the National Priorities Project to contribute to their ongoing educational efforts.








inc_totals ();
fill_states (document.forms[0].state);
set_city_list (document.forms[0].state, document.forms[0].city);




bills944 -> RE: A bit of news (9/4/2006 7:53:13 AM)

 
A forgotten part of history --->>>....it was President Franklin Delano Roosevelt who defeated Hitler and the Nazis, while many American right-wingers of the 1930s and '40s were promoters of Mussolini, Hjalmar Schacht, and Hermann Goering. And among the extreme American Fascists and Nazis of the period, there were some who openly sympathized with Adolf Hitler, by intention or practice. "Rumsfeld ought to know, unless his mental capacities are failing him, that it was FDR who had to fight the American right wing in order to defeat Hitler," LaRouche said.

inspector dupin <[email protected]> wrote:







An initial run of 250,000 of this, in leaflet form, is now being distributed, primarily in DC.  



[image]http://larouchepub.com/eir_subscribe_button.gif[/image]

[font="helvetica, geneva, arial, sunsans-regular, sans-serif"]PRESS RELEASE



LaRouche to Rumsfeld:
FDR Defeated the Nazis,
While the Bushes Collaborated

Sept. 4, 2006 (EIRNS)—This release was issued today by the Lyndon LaRouche Political Action Committee, and is being circulated as a mass-distribution leaflet.Lyndon LaRouche responded forcefully and directly on Sept. 3 to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's recent insane accusations that Democrats who opposed the Bush Administration were "appeasers," like those who capitulated to Hitler in the 1930s. Rumsfeld delivered two speeches and penned a Los Angeles Times op-ed during the week of Aug. 28-Sept. 3, repeating the "appeasement" charges, and then sent a letter to Congressional Democrats, ostensibly retracting his remarks, but, in fact, reiterating the same charges.LaRouche blasted Rumsfeld, reminding him that it was President Franklin Delano Roosevelt who defeated Hitler and the Nazis, while many American right-wingers of the 1930s and '40s were promoters of Mussolini, Hjalmar Schacht, and Hermann Goering. And among the extreme American Fascists and Nazis of the period, there were some who openly sympathized with Adolf Hitler, by intention or practice. "Rumsfeld ought to know, unless his mental capacities are failing him, that it was FDR who had to fight the American right wing in order to defeat Hitler," LaRouche said. "Without Franklin Roosevelt leading the fight, Hitler would have almost certainly been victorious, and the world would have perhaps still been under the genocidal boot of Hitler's successors today."The anti-FDR tradition in America is the American _expression of fascism," LaRouche continued. "It was FDR's alliance with the Soviet Union of Josef Stalin, an alliance that was joined by Winston Churchill, that defeated Hitler and the Nazis."LaRouche demanded, "The U.S. Congress should hold hearings today on the issue of fascism, and the history of those Americans who collaborated with the Nazis and the Fascists prior to and during World War II—just as the Congress did at the end of the war."Prescott S. Bush and the UBC
In that context, LaRouche reminded Rumsfeld that the current President's own grandfather Prescott S. Bush was a director of the Union Banking Corporation, an asset of German steel cartel boss Fritz Thyssen, who proudly admitted that he was Adolf Hitler's earliest and biggest financial backer, in his book I Paid Hitler (1941). From 1924-1942, the UBC was the New York City bank holding company for all of Thyssen's U.S. corporate operations. The arrangement was made with Thyssen by W. Averell Harriman, and several Brown Brothers Harriman directors, including Roland Harriman and Prescott Bush, were directors and shareholders of UBC, even after Hitler took power in Germany and invaded Eastern Europe. Bush remained a managing director of UBC right up to the moment that the U.S. government moved to shut the bank down.On Oct. 20, 1942, under the Trading with the Enemy Act, the U.S. Congress seized all of the assets of the Union Banking Corporation of 39 Broadway, New York, New York. The seizure was approved by Leo T. Crowly, the U.S. Alien Property Custodian. By the end of October 1942, the U.S. Congress had seized a total of four Thyssen entities—all run through the UBC. The other seized entities were: Hamburg-American Line, Holland-American Trading Corp., and Seamless Steel Equipment Corp. Far from being shell companies, these entities were involved in supplying crucial materiel to Nazi Germany. U.S. Congressional hearings at the close of World War II revealed that the United Steel Works Corporation of Thyssen, which was interlocked with UBC, had been the main supplier of steel, iron, and explosives for the Nazi war machine ("Elimination of German Resources for War," hearings before a Subcommittee of the Committee on Military Affairs, United States Senate, July 2, 1945)."Does Mr. Rumsfeld really want to revisit the issue of Nazi appeasement and collaboration?" LaRouche pointedly asked.Then and Now
LaRouche next turned to the Bush Administration's own record of totalitarianism, typified by Rumsfeld's and Vice President Dick Cheney's persistent efforts to create a privatized secret military force, and to adopt some of the very same torture techniques perfected by the Nazi SS, at locations like Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib prison."Let us not ignore the role of George Shultz, the man behind the Bush Presidency, the power of Vice President Cheney, and the promotion of Don Rumsfeld as Secretary of Defense. Even leading Republicans know Shultz to be an outright totalitarian, who has used the Bush Presidency to impose a 'Pinochet Model' of top-down dictatorship and radical free-market economics upon the United States. Shultz's promotion of the privatization of war, on the SS model, has been backed," LaRouche noted, "by Felix Rohatyn."LaRouche continued, "Is it not the right-wing current of today, typified by Cheney, Shultz, Rumsfeld, and the foolish George W. Bush, who are the real Nazi appeasers? Isn't that the truth, Mr. Rumsfeld?"LaRouche concluded: "I call upon the U.S. Congress to launch immediate hearings into this whole issue of appeasement. These hearings should take place prior to the November midterm elections. Nothing on the agenda of the U.S. Congress should take higher priority than this matter. Donald Rumsfeld, a top official of the Bush Administration, has made this an issue of national debate, and the record must be set straight. Congress is the proper venue."http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2006/lar_pac/060904lar_anti-rumsfeld.html




Level -> RE: A bit of news (9/4/2006 8:00:09 AM)

bills............. the info you're putting out is interesting, but I'd ask you to start a thread just for it, okay?




bills944 -> RE: A bit of news (9/4/2006 8:13:38 AM)

A forgotten part of history --- >>>....it was President Franklin Delano Roosevelt who defeated Hitler and the Nazis, while many American right-wingers of the 1930s and '40s were promoters of Mussolini, Hjalmar Schacht, and Hermann Goering. And among the extreme American Fascists and Nazis of the period, there were some who openly sympathized with Adolf Hitler, by intention or practice. "Rumsfeld ought to know, unless his mental capacities are failing him, that it was FDR who had to fight the American right wing in order to defeat Hitler," LaRouche said.

inspector dupin <[email protected]> wrote: An initial run of 250,000 of this, in leaflet form, is now being distributed, primarily in DC.    
[image]http://larouchepub.com/eir_subscribe_button.gif[/image] PRESS RELEASE
LaRouche to Rumsfeld:
FDR Defeated the Nazis,
While the Bushes Collaborated
Sept. 4, 2006 (EIRNS)—This release was issued today by the Lyndon LaRouche Political Action Committee, and is being circulated as a mass-distribution leaflet.

Lyndon LaRouche responded forcefully and directly on Sept. 3 to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's recent insane accusations that Democrats who opposed the Bush Administration were "appeasers," like those who capitulated to Hitler in the 1930s. Rumsfeld delivered two speeches and penned a Los Angeles Times op-ed during the week of Aug. 28-Sept. 3, repeating the "appeasement" charges, and then sent a letter to Congressional Democrats, ostensibly retracting his remarks, but, in fact, reiterating the same charges.

LaRouche blasted Rumsfeld, reminding him that it was President Franklin Delano Roosevelt who defeated Hitler and the Nazis, while many American right-wingers of the 1930s and '40s were promoters of Mussolini, Hjalmar Schacht, and Hermann Goering. And among the extreme American Fascists and Nazis of the period, there were some who openly sympathized with Adolf Hitler, by intention or practice.

"Rumsfeld ought to know, unless his mental capacities are failing him, that it was FDR who had to fight the American right wing in order to defeat Hitler," LaRouche said. "Without Franklin Roosevelt leading the fight, Hitler would have almost certainly been victorious, and the world would have perhaps still been under the genocidal boot of Hitler's successors today.

"The anti-FDR tradition in America is the American _expression of fascism," LaRouche continued. "It was FDR's alliance with the Soviet Union of Josef Stalin, an alliance that was joined by Winston Churchill, that defeated Hitler and the Nazis."



LaRouche demanded, "The U.S. Congress should hold hearings today on the issue of fascism, and the history of those Americans who collaborated with the Nazis and the Fascists prior to and during World War II—just as the Congress did at the end of the war."
Prescott S. Bush and the UBC

In that context, LaRouche reminded Rumsfeld that the current President's own grandfather Prescott S. Bush was a director of the Union Banking Corporation, an asset of German steel cartel boss Fritz Thyssen, who proudly admitted that he was Adolf Hitler's earliest and biggest financial backer, in his book I Paid Hitler (1941). From 1924-1942, the UBC was the New York City bank holding company for all of Thyssen's U.S. corporate operations.

The arrangement was made with Thyssen by W. Averell Harriman, and several Brown Brothers Harriman directors, including Roland Harriman and Prescott Bush, were directors and shareholders of UBC, even after Hitler took power in Germany and invaded Eastern Europe. Bush remained a managing director of UBC right up to the moment that the U.S. government moved to shut the bank down.
On Oct. 20, 1942, under the Trading with the Enemy Act, the U.S. Congress seized all of the assets of the Union Banking Corporation of 39 Broadway, New York, New York. The seizure was approved by Leo T. Crowly, the U.S. Alien Property Custodian.


By the end of October 1942, the U.S. Congress had seized a total of four Thyssen entities—all run through the UBC. The other seized entities were: Hamburg-American Line, Holland-American Trading Corp., and Seamless Steel Equipment Corp.


Far from being shell companies, these entities were involved in supplying crucial materiel to Nazi Germany.


U.S. Congressional hearings at the close of World War II revealed that the United Steel Works Corporation of Thyssen, which was interlocked with UBC, had been the main supplier of steel, iron, and explosives for the Nazi war machine ("Elimination of German Resources for War," hearings before a Subcommittee of the Committee on Military Affairs, United States Senate, July 2, 1945).



"Does Mr. Rumsfeld really want to revisit the issue of Nazi appeasement and collaboration?" LaRouche pointedly asked.
Then and Now LaRouche next turned to the Bush Administration's own record of totalitarianism, typified by Rumsfeld's and Vice President Dick Cheney's persistent efforts to create a privatized secret military force, and to adopt some of the very same torture techniques perfected by the Nazi SS, at locations like Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib prison.
"Let us not ignore the role of George Shultz, the man behind the Bush Presidency, the power of Vice President Cheney, and the promotion of Don Rumsfeld as Secretary of Defense. Even leading Republicans know Shultz to be an outright totalitarian, who has used the Bush Presidency to impose a 'Pinochet Model' of top-down dictatorship and radical free-market economics upon the United States.

Shultz's promotion of the privatization of war, on the SS model, has been backed," LaRouche noted, "by Felix Rohatyn."
LaRouche continued,

"Is it not the right-wing current of today, typified by Cheney, Shultz, Rumsfeld, and the foolish George W. Bush, who are the real Nazi appeasers? Isn't that the truth, Mr. Rumsfeld?"

LaRouche concluded: "I call upon the U.S. Congress to launch immediate hearings into this whole issue of appeasement. These hearings should take place prior to the November midterm elections. Nothing on the agenda of the U.S. Congress should take higher priority than this matter. Donald Rumsfeld, a top official of the Bush Administration, has made this an issue of national debate, and the record must be set straight. Congress is the proper venue."

http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2006/lar_pac/060904lar_anti-rumsfeld.html




bills944 -> RE: A bit of news (9/4/2006 8:19:38 AM)

No problem, I'm just sick of this war like the soldiers who may get the death penalty, I'm sure that makes them sick to their stomachs.  The Middle East is a bloody mess.





bills944 -> RE: A bit of news (9/4/2006 8:20:54 AM)

okay




bills944 -> RE: A bit of news (9/4/2006 8:28:24 AM)

okay, but if you want to get the big shots at the top you need to know about them.  In any case I'm done posting.




mnottertail -> RE: A bit of news (9/4/2006 8:30:47 AM)

Lyndon LaRouche is still alive?  Jesus Fuckin' Christ.




Level -> RE: A bit of news (9/4/2006 8:32:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bills944

okay, but if you want to get the big shots at the top you need to know about them.  In any case I'm done posting.


I agree, bills. I wasn't trying to be a dick or anything, but with posts that big, they were kinda swallowing everything else. Hopefully you'll keep bringing info, just maybe in another thread. Or just post a paragraph or so and a link here?




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