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sub-transformation? - 9/3/2006 5:30:47 PM   
sofaking


Posts: 23
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline 		so... its clear to me that my girlfriend has submissive qualities and i want to confront her about this and about my own dominant needs.  the problem is i see in her conflicted emotions, on one hand she wants ME to make the decisions and generaly assume my natural role and on the other she feels she needs to make a token effort because i think she feels as a woman she needs to be equal.  if equality would truly make her happy i would have no problem with it but i think she feels compelled to act from societal pressures.

my question is: what types of things did you sub/slaves see as sure signs to your submissive nature?

as i said i want to talk to her about this and i would like a little background on what makes subs tick. 

thanks in advance.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: sub-transformation? - 9/3/2006 7:21:30 PM   
mp072004


Posts: 381
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline 		How have you come to the conclusion that she "feels she needs to make a token effort" and that that's because "she feels as a woman she needs to be equal," and that these ideas are due to "societal pressures"? These look to me like things that go on inside her head, but as you didn't say, "She told me..." I might guess that you've guessed at her reasoning. That's not necessarily a bad thing to do, IF your guesses have reasons of their own. "I think she feels like she needs to pretend at equality because she talks a lot about our egalitarian relationship but in reality, I make most of the decisions, even about things she cares about, and she encourages this," is a good example of a reasoned guess.

However, you don't need to rely wholly on good guesses to ascertain your girlfriend's mental state. You can talk to her. Discussing how to divide responsibility in your relationship is wise, regardless of your suspicions that she is a latent submissive and wants to have an inequal-power relationship--indeed, you don't even need to mention that. Relationships tend to work better when they have clearly stated rules and obligations.

You have written two things that look contradictory. You would be happy with an equal relationship if that was what your girlfriend wanted, and you have "dominant needs" and a "natural role" as primary decision-maker. Before you initiate a conversation about your relational power structure, you should ascertain what you want, and how important it is to you.

Now, with apologies to Jeff Foxworthy, you might be submissive if you regularly defer decision-making, if you are fulfilled by obeying in general, and if you generally privilege the desires of others above your own. That strikes me as the crux of it. You might be service-oriented if you actively seek to make others more comfortable. You might be into sexual fantasies of being overpowered if, um, being held down while having sex makes you hot.

Monica

(in reply to sofaking)
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RE: sub-transformation? - 9/3/2006 8:04:04 PM   
behindmirrors


Posts: 340
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		All I really have to offer on this is that you should get more than just a guess about what she's thinking or feeling, and her motivations. I would probably start a conversation, albeit one that looks more at your side and feelings than pushing a role on her, with your girlfriend and see what kind of response you get. Be careful, of course- this is generally treading on difficult ground for women, and sometimes (I know I did, anyway), there can be a lot of emotional upheaval about such feelings if she does indeed have them. Like I said, focus this on your own feelings of enjoying a certain amount of control in relationships, without pushing anything on her- think of it more as a philosophical conversation than a "this is how I think you are and how things should be."
Good luck,
behindmirrors.

(in reply to mp072004)
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RE: sub-transformation? - 9/4/2006 10:39:40 AM   
sofaking


Posts: 23
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you for the insightful responses ladies. 

Monica, you made some assumptions that were incorrect but i am to blame for not being more clear about the situation.  i simply didnt have the time or inclination to write down the history of our relationship.  i wasnt so much looking for a critique but for some insight into what makes submissives tick, as i stated in the original post.  however i appreciate some of your thoughts and think you have some good points.

behindmirrors, what you had to say definitely makes sense... although i dont want to put her on the spot my intention is to help her realize her submissive nature as i think this will make both of us happier.  i think you are right about treading softly, she is very sensitive and i could easily bungle things by barging in in my typical fashion.  much forethought needs be given here methinks.  again, thanks.

E


(in reply to behindmirrors)
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RE: sub-transformation? - 9/4/2006 5:22:33 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Her token effort, as you put it, may not be from societal pressures as much as from being heard. I have enormous troubles with people who make arbitrary decisions without hearing my side. I have no trouble with my dom making decisions after he's asked for my input. I need to know I am heard and that what I say is taken seriously.

You need to know more about where she's coming from and why before you can make these blanket assumptions. Otherwise it can only lead to trouble. Talk to her, give examples - "Something I'm curious about, you were fine when I picked the movie but you got all upset when I chose the topping on the pizza. Care to explain" You may discover that she was fine with the movie because you had already agreed to nothing scary but not with the pizza because she could never order what she wanted when younger.

(in reply to sofaking)
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RE: sub-transformation? - 9/4/2006 5:24:59 PM   
Tikkiee


Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline 		Hmmm
 
/scratches head
 
Have you tried talking to her?
 
Communication. What a novel concept.

_____________________________

~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to sofaking)
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RE: sub-transformation? - 9/4/2006 7:25:37 PM   
sofaking


Posts: 23
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline 		celeste, thanks you may be right and i could be making a blanket assumption.  i might also be projecting my own desires onto the situation...

tikkiee: i DO plan on talking to her, but i just wanted a little insight into a sub mindset before i made any assertions i couldnt back up.  we do communicate fairly well, i just see this as something potentialy pivotal in our relationship and i want to understand the other side of the coin better before i enter into this conversation as im sure she knows next to nothing about BDSM.

quote:

Communication. What a novel concept. 
anymore lip like that little lady and i will hook your nipples up to a car battery!  (hmmm is a car battery DC?  i better consult the Health & Safety board first)  ;)




E

(in reply to Tikkiee)
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RE: sub-transformation? - 9/4/2006 7:28:46 PM   
Tikkiee


Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

anymore lip like that little lady and i will hook your nipples up to a car battery!  (hmmm is a car battery DC?  i better consult the Health & Safety board first)  ;)

/raises her eyebrow

_____________________________

~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to sofaking)
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RE: sub-transformation? - 9/4/2006 8:35:13 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I am still conflicted about these things at times... the only time I am not conflicted is in my interactions with my Dom... he will outright tell me that I choose what he lets me choose...and I feel happy about it, but in theory it still bothers me at times. He treats me like an equal though. He treats me as though my feelings are equal, as though my desires are equal, as though I am an equal in my humanity...but he knows I long to defer to him and to let him decide things. I am obedient too.


So perhaps it is in how you couch your terms, perhaps you can gain her submission and obedience by acknowledging her as being an equal in many ways? I know everyone is different, so I am basing this on my own experience, because submission is about gain, not about loss, I gain myself by being who I am... I do not lose my worth in any way. My Daddy always has said he could not accept my consent to be his submissive if he did not believe I was his equal.. it was important to him I surrender myself as his equal into his power.. I do not know if this makes sense or not.. it might just be the way we are.

Good luck with your girlfriend

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to sofaking)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: sub-transformation? - 9/4/2006 9:46:24 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		I am no sub but I will put my ten cents in, talk to your girlfriend without trying to lead her to do what you want her to do. Have an open discussion about what you both want and desire in a relationship. She may have some sub tendancies, but that doesn't necessarily make her a submissive. The only way you will find out what she is thinking and wanting is by asking her without putting pressure on her.
Unfortnately some Dom/mes put pressure on people and try to convince them they are submissive when actually they aren't and it causes problems down the road. Spare yourselves the trouble and go slowly.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: sub-transformation? - 9/4/2006 10:00:23 PM   
lilsubl


Posts: 4595
Joined: 2/6/2006
Status: offline 		i knew from the first experience that i was sexually submissive, so i won't even go there...i was, however, a strong feminist who believed that any one who didn't treat me as an equal was automatically putting me down, was seeing me as someone incapable & i would have no part of that...when i finally realized that i was a submissive outside the bedroom was when my ex-husband & i got back together a few years ago & i discovered that i no longer wished to be treated as his "equal"...when i brought him his coffee in bed each morning, when i stopped my day at whatever time he could be there to fix his dinner & make more coffee to fill his thermos & pick up after him & every little thing that i could possibly do to please him, to make his life easier & more pleasant, i discovered that this made my life so much easier & more pleasant too...i no longer required that i be "in control"...i had suffered for years with an anxiety disorder & when i submitted to him, my anxiety disappeared & i became calm & content...hope this helps a bit with the submissive mindset question.....

< Message edited by lilsubl -- 9/4/2006 10:01:50 PM >

_____________________________

Linea, collarded pet of the evil Sir Max & his lovely & equally evil wife


it's no fun unless you're scared

if you can't be brave, be determined & you'll get to the same place

wannabe member of the subbi mafia

(in reply to sofaking)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: sub-transformation? - 9/5/2006 8:30:14 AM   
charismagirrl


Posts: 297
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		sofaking- First let me begin by saying that it is very apparent how much you care about your g/f and her sensitive side and not wanting to scare or upset her. Also your insight that you might be transfering your wants/needs onto her is to be commended. Kudos to you!

i have come to realize over the years that i am a born slave. i have in the past been a submissive only or acted as a bottom and even as a Domme. So what made/makes me tick?

In realtionships i always sought out dominant types, sometimes to my detriment. i longed for the protective nurturing thing and was always more than glad to have a man in control of things. That's only a mere part of it.

i always, (since childhood) have relished being a good girl and have also always been a people pleaser.Not to say that i wanted to please just anyone but the ones i loved or held dear were always put before myself and to make them happy was always enough reward for me.

Sexually i never felt right about being the aggressor and my people pleasing trait is always present and accounted for.Something always feels just right when the man takes control and leads me in the way to please him the most.

i hope this is of some help.

(in reply to lilsubl)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: sub-transformation? - 9/5/2006 8:46:54 AM   
kitty2MLoneWolf


Posts: 149
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sofaking

quote:

Communication. What a novel concept. 
anymore lip like that little lady and i will hook your nipples up to a car battery!  (hmmm is a car battery DC?  i better consult the Health & Safety board first)  ;)

E


I wonder at your need to dom someone who hasnt consented to have you do so? What was it about her that made you believe you were in a position to "punish" her for her input?... joke or not..it kind of goes with the concept of the whole thread. You feel your girlfriend is submissive and it feeds into your needs so how do you approach her to tell her how she can fall in line with that?

This is just a thought but have you thought perhaps about increasing your skills as a dominant before tackling her ability to be a submissive?  You may find that doing the first will naturally bring about the second if in fact she is a submissive and wants to be controlled by you.

_____________________________

used to be jessieme but I got a life <grin>

Dont worry about what other people think....they dont do it very often!

(in reply to sofaking)
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RE: sub-transformation? - 9/5/2006 11:13:40 AM   
sofaking


Posts: 23
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline 		I want to thank you all for taking the time to share your knowledge and expertise.  I am kind of a slow learner, but not i think, dim witted. 

To answer your questions kitty, i am here to learn not only about being a dom but about submission.  i think you have to understand them both to understand either.

Maybe i was out of line with my comment to tikkiee but i was certainly not trying to dom her.  one look at her profile and you would see that a strong electrical current to her sensitive chestal region ;) would be anything but punishment.  and i took the /raised eyebrow to be a sign of interest not apprehension... but that could be me projecting again hehe.  Sproing!!

I have learned a ton already and would love to hear more, dont hesitate to share.  even the smallest pearl could be of immense value to me.




E

(in reply to kitty2MLoneWolf)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: sub-transformation? - 9/5/2006 11:28:04 AM   
Tikkiee


Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline 		LOL I took the comment exactly as it was meant to be taken  In humor.

_____________________________

~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to sofaking)
Profile   Post #: 15
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