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RE: "No Limits Slave" - 9/5/2006 11:46:15 AM   
Owned1


Posts: 847
Joined: 7/6/2005
From: Toronto, Ontario
Status: offline 		No Limits is not something that is the first step of any relationship.  It grows over time, with trust, honesty and open communication.  When I think of a no limit relationship I think of two things, the first the online/fantasy~~I will do whatever you want oh greatLordMasterDomoftheWorld.  without question or thought to myself or those I am responsible for.

The second being the true real life in da flesh no limit relationship.  Knowing I trust Him with my life, that he will make the decision that is in my best interest therefore in his best interest.  I do have limits they are his limits.  He is sane, realistic and his feet firmly on the ground.  He would not do anything that would jeapordize our relationship or our lives. 

If there was something he wanted to do and I did not want to I am able to express my concerns however with the understanding the final decision is up to him and I would abide by that.

For these reasons I belong to him body mind and spirit.

Owned

_____________________________

~~in His Chains i am free~~

(in reply to charismagirrl)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: "No Limits Slave" - 9/5/2006 11:51:47 AM   
LW3


Posts: 59
Joined: 9/4/2006
Status: offline 		No limits?
that means that if the Master so desires it can kill his/her slave.
well if somebody trust enought his/her Master to accept that then is fine with me (it's not my life) but for me there's always at least one hard limit: "no permanent damage"

If a slave tells me she has no limits first thing I will do is teach her what "no limits" means (And I'm sure she will think again before telling she has "no limits")

(in reply to charismagirrl)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: "No Limits Slave" - 9/5/2006 11:53:42 AM   
charismagirrl


Posts: 297
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		well said owned1.

If you know that your Master is sane (and shares your core beliefs) and you have given consent freely then you can entrust your safety to Him to make thr right choices for you and help you grow and learn about yourself and your relatonship. Ultimately you will become a much better slave to Him.

(in reply to Owned1)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: "No Limits Slave" - 9/5/2006 11:59:21 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

At any rate - it will never be something i will ever personally grapple with as i would never be a slave.  i do know many slaves though and some of the experiences they have shared with me have been heart wrenching, to say the least.


velvet,
Never say "never"! I can only hope you someday find someone who you can completely trust to consider the decision.

There are two factors that should be considered from the section of your post that I quoted. Causes or reasons for the heart wrenching I too have witnessed first hand. The first cause is time. It's rare that a person, or two people, are willing to invest the time to make a good decision regarding a relationship. Often the slave and master make the decision during the 'honeymoon' period. The "best case" is usually that both make it out of the experience without scars when the honeymoon ends. There is an intimate knowledge and level of intimacy that only derives once time has passed from the excitement and afterglow of the initial physical encounters.

Once "in" a M/s relationship the most common cause for abuse is derived from people not wanting to be alone. They are more committed to the identity of "slave" and fear losing it, to the point of rationalizing the acceptance of abuse.

This is why there really can not be a naive, dumb, or 'doormat' slave. Such a far reaching, life changing, and potentially dangerous decision to be a slave MUST be made with a mind capable of assessing the risks. The risks aren't just what will happen to your possessions or your body. It's more important to consider what will happen to your emotions, and your mind. Before you can make that level of commitment you better have a damn good idea of who you are, what your goals are, and whether you can surrender the decision making process to achieve them to another person. Once that is accomplished yo then have to be able to determine if your partner warrants and deserves the trust and responsibility you are about to surrender. You have to be confident and self assured, just the opposite of what the stereotype is of a slave.

There are no shortcuts.

But then, slavery or owning a slave isn't a goal that needs to be there for everyone. Just look at all the frustration you would avoid if you didn't have to worry if you were a slave or submissive, or once that label was assigned, determining if you had limits or no limits?

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: "No Limits Slave" - 9/5/2006 12:05:59 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Unless you experience a "no-limits" relationship you'll never believe it exists, but it does. The problem with proving it is that proof isn't possible. You'll get a challenge to make your slave do something to prove it, or the slave will be asked ridiculous "what if" questions


This is a good point. I think people (including myself) when talking about the "no limits" thing,  tend to not think outside the box of  the bdsm context.  So everyone sits there and says...."Well,  would you cut off your arm if your Master demanded it?  Would you murder someone for your Master?"  And when you say  'no', well then its been proven that you are NOT a no-limits slave.  In this really really broad view where we use these gruesome examples, I do not think anyone of sound mind and body is truly 'limitless". 

The feeling I got when I read your post was that you are more or less stating that the "no limits" thing  is more of a mindset that really means, "Id do anything for my Master, or Id do anything for my Wife, for that matter, or my child, or a friend....or even.....a stranger who may be in dire need.  I guess we could consider Firemen as no-limit "slaves".  How about a horrible plane crash  into icy waters and people jumping in to try to save others?  
But we ( many in the bdsm community) sometimes forget to take these issues/questions out of the bdsm context to examine them in in a more basic way, without adding imaginary bdsm limitations to our thinking process.  I believe that if we did this all the time, there would rarely, if ever, be a difference between  "us" and "them".  (though Im sure that statement will be misconstrued by many) 

To take it back into bdsm for a minute.....I would think that  most subs/slaves wouldnt choose to serve a Master/Mistress who'd have you cut off your fingers,  any more than someone would choose a spouse whose core ethical beliefs didnt match up with his/her own. 

quote:

Maybe some of you have "no limit" relationships and don't know it. Think about the closest relationship you have. You get a call from this person saying they are in trouble and need you to come immediately. How far would you go to help them? Would it be across the street?. Across town? Across country? Or Across the world? If you would not even ask where they were before you said; "I'm on my way!" - That's what "no limits" feels like.


yes exactly. 

Great post. 

marie.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: "No Limits Slave" - 9/5/2006 12:27:35 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

marie: LOL!   You do get to the crux of things - hmm. Good question. For my father, or sisters, yes - I think I would eat a spider, if I perceived or was told or saw that someone threatened to harm them irrevocably. Yes. To save a random someone else, to whom I had a human attachment, from being abused or killed who could not defend themself? I'd love to think so, I'd certainly like to think I'd do it (it sounds so noble) - circumstances would determine that though. I don't have Dominant or a Master now, but I presume if I loved him, I'd eat a spider for him too (it's easy to brag, though. There is no spider in front of me, waiting).


lol.  We are eating spiders for the betterment of mankind! 

It was quite a lame example, I guess.  but I was trying to point out that reacting to something in and of itself doesn't compare to the way we react to the exact same thing, while being driven by an emotion. 


quote:

-Plus, if it's a Tarantula, I've heard they can be salty, and would like something to lessen the saltiness, plus their gushing innards, after I take a bite, like creamy cheese


LOL.  You've heard they can be salty???   Let me guess-- a friend of yours told you this right??



quote:

Maybe we should audition for the reality tv show "Fear Factor" to prep for these decisions of consequence that could come our way with a hypothetical Master?


Yes!  In fact there should be a test we have to go through before we get our slave certifications. 

Ick...I watched that show once and the contestants had to eat horses rectum and intestines.  I couldnt eat for a week after I saw that.  And for only 25K???  are they crazy? 

quote:

I do hope my personality and welfare are taken into consideration, when anyone decides for me which ones I need to face.
 

This is where our job comes in when choosing "Master Right". 

marie.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: "No Limits Slave" - 9/5/2006 12:51:21 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Wow, I'm amazed--but gratified--to hear YOU of all people say this.  You used to try to ridicule me for saying essentially the same thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Unless you experience a "no-limits" relationship you'll never believe it exists, but it does. The problem with proving it is that proof isn't possible. You'll get a challenge to make your slave do something to prove it, or the slave will be asked ridiculous "what if" questions and the self righteous will be stratified that their skeptical position is correct because the Master didn't cut off the slave's arm or the slave didn't walk into the Vatican and flash the Pope.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: "No Limits Slave" - 9/5/2006 12:51:42 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		The expression of "no limits" is really a contextual thing.  when a newbie sub wades into a BDSm chat room and procliams no limits, they are revealing exactly how limited they are.  Naivete level 101

Once past that to a fair measure of the Masters nature and mind-set, the expression of no limits is vastly different.. and probably is more related to slaves agreement that this is a safe place.  Best guesses based on history and experience with this Master lead him or her to feel confident there isn't anything the Master would wish that is beyond thier ability to comply with.

There is also at some point, a place when we realise limits don't often come in the form of things you will do or not do..  commands carried out, tasks given.  i have No limits in what i aspire to.  but i am constantly running up against walls of my own limiting behavior.. 

When Master or HusDom can never ever be able to tell from my mood or attitude that i have pms..  when there is never ever a tone of voice that says i'm about to forget my role and position..  when i don't try to defend a wrong action because i never took a wrong action, then i'll be the "No limits slave" i aspire to be.. but i suspect by then i'll be dead or mentally separated from reality in some way. 

For me, "No limits" is the hopeful ideal of being 100% "arrived" in all things and but that would mean i'm past growing and learning and without constant growth, i'd still be less than 100 %.  It's still about the journey, eh?


(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: "No Limits Slave" - 9/5/2006 12:54:37 PM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline 		Has anyone yet grokked the concept that STUPIDITY just may be a limit for competent owners?

(in reply to Mavis)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: "No Limits Slave" - 9/5/2006 1:05:44 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

At any rate - it will never be something i will ever personally grapple with as i would never be a slave.  i do know many slaves though and some of the experiences they have shared with me have been heart wrenching, to say the least.


velvet,
Never say "never"! I can only hope you someday find someone who you can completely trust to consider the decision.

There are two factors that should be considered from the section of your post that I quoted. Causes or reasons for the heart wrenching I too have witnessed first hand. The first cause is time. It's rare that a person, or two people, are willing to invest the time to make a good decision regarding a relationship. Often the slave and master make the decision during the 'honeymoon' period. The "best case" is usually that both make it out of the experience without scars when the honeymoon ends. There is an intimate knowledge and level of intimacy that only derives once time has passed from the excitement and afterglow of the initial physical encounters.

Once "in" a M/s relationship the most common cause for abuse is derived from people not wanting to be alone. They are more committed to the identity of "slave" and fear losing it, to the point of rationalizing the acceptance of abuse.

This is why there really can not be a naive, dumb, or 'doormat' slave. Such a far reaching, life changing, and potentially dangerous decision to be a slave MUST be made with a mind capable of assessing the risks. The risks aren't just what will happen to your possessions or your body. It's more important to consider what will happen to your emotions, and your mind. Before you can make that level of commitment you better have a damn good idea of who you are, what your goals are, and whether you can surrender the decision making process to achieve them to another person. Once that is accomplished yo then have to be able to determine if your partner warrants and deserves the trust and responsibility you are about to surrender. You have to be confident and self assured, just the opposite of what the stereotype is of a slave.

There are no shortcuts.

But then, slavery or owning a slave isn't a goal that needs to be there for everyone. Just look at all the frustration you would avoid if you didn't have to worry if you were a slave or submissive, or once that label was assigned, determining if you had limits or no limits?

Mercnbeth, I agree with you there.
I'd have to know a sub for a while maybe a year or more before asking her to commit to being a Collored "No Limits" slave.
And that would include living together.
You really get to know someone when you live with them for a while.
And you're also right about the "time" factor too.
I wouldn't ask a sub about becomming a Collared "No-Limits" slave until we'd known each other for a year anyway.
Very good post!

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: "No Limits Slave" - 9/5/2006 1:11:17 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Wow, I'm amazed--but gratified--to hear YOU of all people say this.  You used to try to ridicule me for saying essentially the same thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Unless you experience a "no-limits" relationship you'll never believe it exists, but it does. The problem with proving it is that proof isn't possible. You'll get a challenge to make your slave do something to prove it, or the slave will be asked ridiculous "what if" questions and the self righteous will be satisfied that their skeptical position is correct because the Master didn't cut off the slave's arm or the slave didn't walk into the Vatican and flash the Pope.



L&M

I have no idea what part of the quote you are referring. Is it the concept or the proof? It's my believe that my position hasn't changed, perhaps the context has.

Having the "ownership rights" isn't in question. I doubt you ever read a post of mine that suggested disposing or damaging a slave to prove "ownership rights". I've also been consistent in saying that beth isn't a "no-limits" slave, she MY slave with MY limit. And it's too damn difficult to find one to consider "proving" my Mastery or her "slavery" by telling her to jump off our local cliff.

If you now have a clearer understanding then being redundant serves a purpose.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: "No Limits Slave" - 9/5/2006 1:21:58 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Then maybe I've long misunderstood what you've been saying.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: "No Limits Slave" - 9/5/2006 1:26:52 PM   
kitty2MLoneWolf


Posts: 149
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

if they, as a "No Limit" couple want to do damage to me or mine... you bet it's my job... it's my job if i see these "No Limit" couples wanting to do damage to any third arbitrary person or thing...



No limits does not mean non consensual.. lets not confuse the two issues

_____________________________

used to be jessieme but I got a life <grin>

Dont worry about what other people think....they dont do it very often!

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: "No Limits Slave" - 9/5/2006 1:39:00 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kitty2MLoneWolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

if they, as a "No Limit" couple want to do damage to me or mine... you bet it's my job... it's my job if i see these "No Limit" couples wanting to do damage to any third arbitrary person or thing...



No limits does not mean non consensual.. lets not confuse the two issues


Kitty, correct. Some people seem to think that you could send a "No-Limits" slave into a bank with a gun to make a "withdrawal."
Or chainsawing off people's arms!

(in reply to kitty2MLoneWolf)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: "No Limits Slave" - 9/5/2006 1:44:49 PM   
LW3


Posts: 59
Joined: 9/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitty2MLoneWolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

if they, as a "No Limit" couple want to do damage to me or mine... you bet it's my job... it's my job if i see these "No Limit" couples wanting to do damage to any third arbitrary person or thing...



No limits does not mean non consensual.. lets not confuse the two issues


Kitty, correct. Some people seem to think that you could send a "No-Limits" slave into a bank with a gun to make a "withdrawal."
Or chainsawing off people's arms!



yes you can. and you can also do it yourself. it's not impossible only ilegal.

no, seriously. you can't do that because it must be consensual. but if a slave is "no-limits" then I can chainsaw her arms, right? (not that I will do it, of course, but I can)

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: "No Limits Slave" - 9/5/2006 1:47:24 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I guess it's beyond hope that, one of these days, someone who wants to debunk the whole "no limits" idea with an absurd example might just come up with something OTHER than chainsaws...

quote:

ORIGINAL: LW3

no, seriously. you can't do that because it must be consensual. but if a slave is "no-limits" then I can chainsaw her arms, right? (not that I will do it, of course, but I can)

(in reply to LW3)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: "No Limits Slave" - 9/5/2006 1:57:07 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I guess it's beyond hope that, one of these days, someone who wants to debunk the whole "no limits" idea with an absurd example might just come up with something OTHER than chainsaws...

quote:

ORIGINAL: LW3

no, seriously. you can't do that because it must be consensual. but if a slave is "no-limits" then I can chainsaw her arms, right? (not that I will do it, of course, but I can)



L&M lol I know like "How about having her drive a bulldozer into a building?"
"Or making her walk down Main street stark nekid?"
LOL, her "limits" are consensual with her Masters.
This subject could be like that "never-ending story."

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: "No Limits Slave" - 9/5/2006 2:03:09 PM   
LW3


Posts: 59
Joined: 9/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I guess it's beyond hope that, one of these days, someone who wants to debunk the whole "no limits" idea with an absurd example might just come up with something OTHER than chainsaws...

quote:

ORIGINAL: LW3

no, seriously. you can't do that because it must be consensual. but if a slave is "no-limits" then I can chainsaw her arms, right? (not that I will do it, of course, but I can)



how about burning her to death?

sorry Lordandmaster. I see your point. I hope you can see mine.

we are mere humans so we can make mistakes. blind trust in someone who can make mistakes is very dangerous (like deadly dangerous).

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: "No Limits Slave" - 9/5/2006 2:07:13 PM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I guess it's beyond hope that, one of these days, someone who wants to debunk the whole "no limits" idea with an absurd example might just come up with something OTHER than chainsaws...

quote:

ORIGINAL: LW3

no, seriously. you can't do that because it must be consensual. but if a slave is "no-limits" then I can chainsaw her arms, right? (not that I will do it, of course, but I can)



Don't sell me short guy.

I'm evil incarnate, I can force them to listen to barney songs for 24 hours.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: "No Limits Slave" - 9/5/2006 2:13:44 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		This is just a general comment I wanted to throw in 

The whole Hard limits things (especially with 'newbies' that have had no bdsm experiences)  has come from those ridiculous websites with those assinine lists of what you would or wouldnt do.  This then becomes the meaning of the question "what are your limits"...etc. I mean.. its valid of course to discuss with potentials what squicks you, what scares you , what thrills you etc.  But when people have been looking on bdsm websites (and we all know alot of ppl begin their research online) for the past 15 years coming across the infamous "Limits Lists", it tends to become the new definition and it tends to box it in for alot of people to just mean whether or not you're willing to perform certain physical acts.  

(in reply to LW3)
Profile   Post #: 140
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