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A deal breaker ??? - 1/5/2005 6:22:59 PM   
MM01


Posts: 3
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline


A friend who i recently started to mentor, decided he would tell his sub (wife) she was not allowed to wear panties except to work, and if she wanted to wear anything around the house it could be a short skirt without them. She apparently agreed then, for some reason she started wearing them again.

I did not suggest the idea to him, i just told him that it was something i have had my wife doing for almost 6 years, and i told him that he should take it a little slower but, then i thought about it and figured, if she agreed to it then, why did she renig.

It doesn't make sense to me but, should it be a dealbreaker as far as a D/s relationship is concerned?
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RE: A deal breaker ??? - 1/5/2005 6:26:41 PM   
liltxsubby


Posts: 328
Joined: 11/18/2004
From: TX
Status: offline 		i don't see where it should be a deal breaker. she obviously broke a rule though and with most subs, there's always a reason behind breaking a rule. Maybe he should talk to her and find out why she broke the rule in the first place, and the give whatever punishment is deemed necessary.

(in reply to MM01)
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RE: A deal breaker ??? - 1/5/2005 6:27:56 PM   
oceanprincess


Posts: 42
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		i am a sub myself, and why should it be a deal breaker if she wants to wear panties again. if they are married, then he should punish her, and take away her panties except in occasions of her period or when their are children present. children ask a lot of questions you know.

just my two cents.

(in reply to MM01)
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RE: A deal breaker ??? - 1/5/2005 6:28:50 PM   
GoddessJules


Posts: 549
Status: offline
quote:

It doesn't make sense to me but, should it be a dealbreaker as far as a D/s relationship is concerned?


That would probably be up to the people involved. Perhaps the problem would lie also in the fact that he is new and has problems making clear the terms of his requests/commands/suggestions and also not making clear the ramifications of not abiding by them are. Things like this (in my opinion) are usually a two sided problem.


J

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(in reply to MM01)
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RE: A deal breaker ??? - 1/5/2005 6:38:01 PM   
SirTyson


Posts: 126
Joined: 12/8/2004
From: Chicago, Il
Status: offline 		I wouldn't see it as a deal breaker. There are a number of reasons she reniged on this. Could be something health wise that she hasnt told him, being that he is new (and I dont know how much experience she has) but maybe she is testing him as a Dom and see if he will reprimand her for her actions, maybe she decided she felt uncomfortable dressed that way. I would go with the punish now and ask quesions later strategy on this one... :) But thats just my twisted litlle mind

(in reply to GoddessJules)
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RE: A deal breaker ??? - 1/5/2005 6:44:10 PM   
DameDarkness


Posts: 341
Joined: 10/1/2004
Status: offline 		ok a few quick questions...... did he make this a rule or demand it of her at that moment in time? and If he made it a rule did he act like it was a rule or something surprisingly new and fun to do? Reason I asked is because sometimes you have to be careful how you say things. Because the other person might take it differently than what you are actually meaning. Sometimes when you mean one thing and say one thing the other person takes it another way totally because of the tone of the voice etc etc etc.

Dame

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Into the night sky I fly through distant lands and darkened streets... Up into the clouds to play and dance with the moon.....To the hearts of all and I say to you be true to they own heart.

(in reply to SirTyson)
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RE: A deal breaker ??? - 1/5/2005 6:48:31 PM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessJules

That would probably be up to the people involved. Perhaps the problem would lie also in the fact that he is new and has problems making clear the terms of his requests/commands/suggestions and also not making clear the ramifications of not abiding by them are. Things like this (in my opinion) are usually a two sided problem.



I wouldn't argue your final point at all, in fact I'd wager they haven't figured out individually yet just how much "real" they want as opposed to "play" or any number of communication problems that start with not being clear with themself. That's a very easy place to be in when you're new to it all. It's the old 'how do I know what my limits are if I haven't tried it yet?' saw.

When I begin mentoring I usually insist that it be approached as if it's a new toy to play with. Delight in the sensations and scenarios but don't take it too seriously because you're trying things out. Expecting someone to be 24/7 when they are new is too much and often that is the downfall of people in a relationship before they start to try BDSM. They start mucking about with the power structure they've already got worked out before they really know what they want. They should both decide together when the power structure is going to change and define the terms, conditions and limitations.

An open ended "I want you to not wear panties to work" with no term limit might suggest to a haggard wife "he meant until he gets bored" and the same haggard wife could assume that he was bored when he stopped fucking her brains out every day after work. In this scenario saying "I want you to not wear panties to work for the next two weeks" with a follow up conversation at the end of that two weeks to explore feelings, challenges, likes and dislikes is probably more suitable than open ended commands.

Kind of like a mini contract. The parties involved will know when they want to step it up a notch (or three) if they keep talking to each other.


_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to GoddessJules)
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RE: A deal breaker ??? - 1/5/2005 7:06:46 PM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		A deal breaker ???
How can it be a
deal breaker when
it was stated that
she was a sub ?

quote:

a submissive chooses by the moment by the minuite
by the hour by the day by the week by the month by
the year when and how and who and where they will
choose to serve a Dominant daily to fullfill their selfs
or to NOT.


< Message edited by MistressDREAD -- 1/5/2005 7:07:22 PM >

(in reply to MM01)
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RE: A deal breaker ??? - 1/6/2005 5:12:41 AM   
lovingmaster45


Posts: 261
Joined: 9/16/2004
Status: offline 		I doubt your friend is either a Master or a dominant . He seems like a typical woos to me. No Master or dominant would let that kind of infraction go unpunished for an instant.

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Master Jerry


(in reply to liltxsubby)
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RE: A deal breaker ??? - 1/6/2005 6:13:05 AM   
RealityFix


Posts: 156
Joined: 8/12/2004
Status: offline 		New people often seem to have these difficulties, and it's usually because they really have no idea of what *structure* is about.

It's not terribly "real" to them, and so consequences are never outlined, or enforced.

Let's look at this from the heavy end-If say, a slave in an M/s relationship were to dare break this rule, the Master might choose to put his "evil hat" on, and do something to make it very clear (in a low energy way) that covering of the loins was prohibited,period.

An amusing instance I know of that worked VERY well, was that the slave's panties were tossed out, and replaced by disposable diapers,and covered with locking plastic panties. No END of this protocol's time period was given at it's beginning, to reenforce that this was not an "endurance" thing,and that her potty privileges were revoked as well. As you can imagine, having such a basic control removed has a severe phychological impact.

At the end of a week in them 24/ 7, she took the rule QUITE seriously indeed!(It was only the degree of maintanence it took from the Master to keep her that way hygenically,that make it that short of a time period.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It comes down to something VERY basic here-if you aren't prepared to back up a rule, DON'T MAKE IT! You make a rule, it applies to the DOM too. So don't do it half ass,it destroys respect and trust in your ability to control effectively.........

As far as "case by case" compliance from an alleged "submissive"?

That is NOT submission,it's castration. ( Can you say "Nearly nilla"?) So I wouldn't be able to take it very seriously as more than a "bedroom game" in any case. But I make a really lousy "service Top", and I'm the first one to admit to that. I prefer not to be the one wearing the collar.

There are really only TWO options with D/s, you see. You do it........

Or you "play it".

And neither is wrong,only DIFFERENT. You get what you put up with!

(in reply to lovingmaster45)
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RE: A deal breaker ??? - 1/6/2005 7:58:09 AM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline 		Back in the days when i had an online dom i was not allowed to wear a bra when talking with him. One day i forgot i had one on. The next thing i knew i was on cam with the bra in my mouth for a half hr while we chatted online.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to MM01)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: A deal breaker ??? - 1/6/2005 9:25:15 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingmaster45

I doubt your friend is either a Master or a dominant . He seems like a typical woos to me. No Master or dominant would let that kind of infraction go unpunished for an instant.



Well...one new to his/her dominance would. One who is just starting and hasn't worked out either with him/herself and his/her partner what exactly they're going for in their relationship would.

I think you're being a bit too hasty to say "He's not a MASTER (tm)" because he didn't act in the way you think a dominant parnter should. The sense I got from the OP was that this was a fairly new thing. It generally takes some time for people to work out exactly what they feel comfortable with.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to lovingmaster45)
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RE: A deal breaker ??? - 1/6/2005 9:30:58 AM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		Hi, I'm gonna stick my 2 cents in here a sec.

Remember, if these folks are new, the buzz from all that the lifestyle can offer sometimes can cause us to want to jump into things we aren't ready for. To me, the actual wearing of the panties is a symptom of the problem. Clearly, she's got some misgivings about something. In a perfect "BDSM" world, a sub always behaves, always follows rules and orders, and is perfect 24/7. However, in the world I live in (with 5 years RT Scene experience) the most important ingredient, especially in the beginning or when trying something new is communication.

If the Dom is displeased with his submissive, he should ask her why she's donning her knickers again. Opening the line of communication can be as good for him as it is for her.

And then sometimes, slow and steady wins the race. I caution people who are breaking a virgin into the lifestyle to be patient. I dont' see this as a deal breaker as much as I see it as an opportunity for their relationship to grow.

Lily


quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessJules

quote:

It doesn't make sense to me but, should it be a dealbreaker as far as a D/s relationship is concerned?


That would probably be up to the people involved. Perhaps the problem would lie also in the fact that he is new and has problems making clear the terms of his requests/commands/suggestions and also not making clear the ramifications of not abiding by them are. Things like this (in my opinion) are usually a two sided problem.


J



_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to GoddessJules)
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RE: A deal breaker ??? - 1/8/2005 3:43:22 PM   
DaddyAngel


Posts: 18
Joined: 1/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingmaster45

I doubt your friend is either a Master or a dominant . He seems like a typical woos to me. No Master or dominant would let that kind of infraction go unpunished for an instant.


Personally, I have a problem with the *one true way* definition of Master or Dominant. Tells me a lot about the person making up the definition though, now doesn't it.

(in reply to lovingmaster45)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: A deal breaker ??? - 1/8/2005 3:55:52 PM   
Paulnz


Posts: 411
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

An open ended "I want you to not wear panties to work" with no term limit might suggest to a haggard wife "he meant until he gets bored" and the same haggard wife could assume that he was bored when he stopped fucking her brains out every day after work. In this scenario saying "I want you to not wear panties to work for the next two weeks" with a follow up conversation at the end of that two weeks to explore feelings, challenges, likes and dislikes is probably more suitable than open ended commands.



That's a good suggestion

(in reply to MizSuz)
Profile   Post #: 15
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