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latent submissive friend... need advice. - 9/4/2006 1:54:20 PM

sofaking

Posts: 23
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline

i have a question for other dominant folks out there... a really good friend of mine that i have known for nigh on 18 years is married to a woman who, for the most part, is a good person and makes him happy but is someone i consider to be overbearing, overly needy and overly sensitive. he seems to totaly roll over and take her verbal lashings and placate her demands and quite frankly i find it demeaning to him and a bit disgusting. i have always had a lot of respect for him growing up but increasingly lately, as i am coming into my own dominant persona, i am finding it hard to relate to him and starting to really dislike her. i feel hypocritical judging him or her when my own inclination is to dominate someone else in TPE relationship.

i love them both dispite what i consider to be personal flaws (nobodies perfect) and i want to try and reconcile this somehow. if you have experienced something similar perhaps you could enlighten me as to how you came to terms with this.

thanks in advance,

E

Post #: 1

RE: latent submissive friend... need advice. - 9/4/2006 2:44:26 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

I yam what I yam.

They is what they is.

It is not a cause for wonderment, at all.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to sofaking)

Post #: 2

RE: latent submissive friend... need advice. - 9/4/2006 2:52:46 PM

DivaDuchess

Posts: 402
Joined: 8/17/2006
Status: offline

Live and let live. Plus, if you are looking to Dominate ... then what is the problem with accepting someone else being Dominated. Or are you saying you will not respect your slave/sub? Help me understand this one. I've been in a Dom/me relationship and have had slaves and none have given me cause to feel they are not deserving of respect. Respect and communication, honesty are very improtant to a TPE or any other style of D/s. Would you find it demeaning to Dominate someone else? What would be the difference?

_____________________________

Duchess

Courage is not the absence of Fear,
But rather the judgement that,
Something else is more important than Fear.

The Brave may not live forever,
But the Cautious do not live at all.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 3

RE: latent submissive friend... need advice. - 9/4/2006 3:14:43 PM

Estring

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

If they are happy, I doubt you can or should do anything. If it bugs you too much, you might look for a new friend.

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to sofaking)

Post #: 4

RE: latent submissive friend... need advice. - 9/4/2006 3:41:53 PM

sofaking

Posts: 23
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline

thanks for the responses y'all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DivaDuchess

if you are looking to Dominate ... then what is the problem with accepting someone else being Dominated. Or are you saying you will not respect your slave/sub?

to answer your question DD... i don't know. i'm currently in a vanilla relationship and i haven't owned anyone before but the more i learn about TPE and BDSM the less content i am with my nilla waif'er. i can only assume that i would have to respect someone that i choose to be with or else whats the point? (unless the point is to disrespect that person) >:)

quote:

Would you find it demeaning to Dominate someone else? What would be the difference?

as i said i feel hypocritical about not respecting him when my own desire is to do the same and more to someone else... and yet i do feel that way. not being friends isn't an option or solution as far as im concerned.

i think mnottertail has the jist of it. if he is happy then clearly the problem lies with me. i just dont know why i cant accept it. i still am curious if anyone else has encountered this problem and how they dealth with it.

E

(in reply to DivaDuchess)

Post #: 5

RE: latent submissive friend... need advice. - 9/4/2006 3:55:32 PM

alwayshis1

Posts: 27
Joined: 7/1/2006
Status: offline

prehaps your issue is they live what you want,, except he is the sub in the relationship and you see something wrong in a man submitting. there are many in a tpe relationship, yet not in the 'lifestlye', you dont have to have the kink in a relationship to have a dominant personality and a submissive personality in a relationship.

(in reply to sofaking)

Post #: 6

RE: latent submissive friend... need advice. - 9/4/2006 3:56:10 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sofaking
i think mnottertail has the jist of it. if he is happy then clearly the problem lies with me. i just dont know why i cant accept it. i still am curious if anyone else has encountered this problem and how they dealth with it.

quote:

So you ain't sticking him or her in the ass....... are you sure you know everything behind closed doors?
It is better that you have a cause of wonderment that there are submissives (whatever the fuck you want to call them) and you are not abnormal wanting to be with one.

Maybe it's latent homosexuality, I don't know, I will let the ephameral shit go to the girls, they are good at that.

So, a big plus to this, is --- you have a pattern and a sounding board (why does he do such and such, what is the motivation.....so on)

The big negatory here tho, Sofa-- if he disgusts you, ain't you going to wake up some day and be disgusted by your girl doing the same (doing the grape for you?)

Looks to me like 'Come To Jesus' time for you and actually sit down and examine these feelings in concrete ways, and actually getting a handle on the whole shitoree in your mind.

Turn off the stereo (or way down, maybe classical) soft lights, no TV and think, and hope, and dream....and come out and decide these questions, at least to start...where they are today is not where they will be 10 or even 5 years from now.

Why are you disgusted? (I don't know)--- Unacceptable, this is you we are talking about here.

Ron

E

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to sofaking)

Post #: 7

RE: latent submissive friend... need advice. - 9/4/2006 4:36:27 PM

sofaking

Posts: 23
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ain't you going to wake up some day and be disgusted by your girl doing the same

hehe, i like your voice Ron you crack me up. i dont see the above as a problem though because i would be looking for a girl to fulfill that roll, thats what i want and i would respect her for giving that to me. as opposed to my best buddy, my wingman, someone i considered to be equal becoming somebodies bitch. maybe this is a question for the sub/slave board but honestly i wonder how he can respect himself for being such a pussy.

you are right, i dont know what goes on behind closed doors... but i hope for the sake of his pride he is laying the smack down. (in a consentual way of course) ;)

maybe all this would become apparent once i am involved in a TPE relationship, but currently its not an option so i am left to surmise and watch it eat away at my friendship. this all probably seems very obvious to most of you folks but i am a lowly newb scrounging the boards for pearls in liu (sp?) of personal experience.

E

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 8

RE: latent submissive friend... need advice. - 9/4/2006 4:47:58 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

I would have trouble with this because I think it's unforgivably rude to you, the guest, to make you witness this. Most people are going to be uncomfortable while another couple has a spat in front of them. D/s or not, it's just poor manners.

He may be perfectly happy in the relationship but I wonder if he would be perfectly happy should she do this at a family gathering? The thing here is that even if this is their kink, you did not consent to be part of their sex life. And that's wrong. I'm sure you won't feel it necessary to humiliate your partner in front of her mother just because it makes you hot neither would you call her at work and demand she inserts a dildo while standing in the door of her cubicle. It would be inappropriate.

(in reply to sofaking)

Post #: 9

RE: latent submissive friend... need advice. - 9/4/2006 4:58:35 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

I follow that, you the man, saying BE the man............

Well, there is a whole lotta lovin' goin' on....You've heard of Led Zepplin, right?

If you want to walz down this path, you gotta leave room for others to do-si-do as well, you ain't gotta control the world, just one, or two or three......

See what I mean?

You eat an elephant one bite at a time, bruddah!!!

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to sofaking)

Post #: 10

RE: latent submissive friend... need advice. - 9/4/2006 5:12:27 PM

mp072004

Posts: 381
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline

Sofaking, I'm hearing that your friend's submissive behavior doesn't sit well with you. You say that you wouldn't dislike your own inequal relationship because "I would be looking for a girl to fulfill that role," as opposed to "someone I considered to be equal." This looks like you don't view a woman as equal to you. I would test this out by posing the following question: how could a woman who submits respect herself for being, in your words, such a pussy? How would you react to the sentence "I hope for the sake of her pride she is laying the smack down behind closed doors," spoken of a woman who is publicly deferential to her husband?

Or, perhaps there's a more nuanced answer. Perhaps you evaluate classes of people in a more sophisticated fashion, and perhaps your friend is better-educated, better-spoken, or more moral than his wife, and as a result, you wonder why she is more dominant than he is. Assuming that your friend and his wife don't have an explicitly negotiated d/s relationship, she likely emerged as more dominant because she could fight better for her will, and maybe you're puzzled and a bit sad that your friend didn't emerge as top dog, just as you might be sad if he were passed over for a promotion at work. If this is the case, you just need to remind yourself that if he seems happy enough, it's probably a very good thing that he found someone with a complementary power orientation.

How can you, a self-described dominant person, relate to your submissive buddy? You have a lot of options, but it may do you well to recognize that you and he probably don't have a purely equal relationship--there aren't many friendships that lack subtle power inequality. You and he likely already have a power dynamic, and if you're generally dominant and he's generally submissive, you're on top, as it were. Do you generally make most of the decisions about how you spend your time together? If there's a conflict--if you want to see the comedy, and he wants to see the action movie--do you win? If so, he submits to you, and he has probably done so for years. You have been okay with his deferential or passive attitude with reference to you for nearly two decades, then--otherwise, you likely wouldn't have remained friends. Why, then, is his submissive behavior suddenly a bad thing?

Incidentally, your friend strikes me as a relationally smart and lucky person, because he has determined that he does well in relationships with dominant people, and managed to find dominant people for his closest friend and his romantic partner.

If it still bugs you to watch your friend defer to his wife, or, if you just don't like her, you may want to arrange for you and your friend to spend time together without her. Disliking a friend's partner is hardly an unusual problem.

Monica

(in reply to sofaking)

Post #: 11

RE: latent submissive friend... need advice. - 9/4/2006 6:37:50 PM

diamonddreamlove

Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline

Changed my mind about answering this from the point of view as a submissive. I do think this is an area that needs Your attention but then i am only submissive so probably don't deserve the right to say anything. Perhaps i am just being touchy but respect is the cornerstone of any relationship D/s or vanilla. I am the partner of my Dom and i have His respect as His sub just as He has my respect as my Dom. Without that partnership O/our relationship would not exist. Perhaps Your friends marriage is also built upon respect for each other and without knowing their contract with each other You are getting only one view. It does however appear to push Your buttons so perhaps before You own someone it would be a good idea to follow through with identifying what part of his submission is bothering You. That way perhaps You can identify the qualities You are looking for in a submissive for Yourself as well.

< Message edited by diamonddreamlove -- 9/4/2006 6:48:37 PM >

_____________________________

"Many attempts to communicate are nullified by saying too much." Robert Greenleaf

(in reply to mp072004)

Post #: 12

RE: latent submissive friend... need advice. - 9/4/2006 7:09:21 PM

sophia37

Posts: 1433
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline

MP is an amazing and articulate writer.

(in reply to diamonddreamlove)

Post #: 13

RE: latent submissive friend... need advice. - 9/4/2006 8:01:57 PM

DivaDuchess

Posts: 402
Joined: 8/17/2006
Status: offline

I have encountered that problem ... that's when I learned that respect is the basis of any relationship ... whether or not it's vanilla or D/s. Good luck to you.

_____________________________

Duchess

Courage is not the absence of Fear,
But rather the judgement that,
Something else is more important than Fear.

The Brave may not live forever,
But the Cautious do not live at all.

(in reply to sophia37)

Post #: 14

RE: latent submissive friend... need advice. - 9/5/2006 5:12:04 PM

sofaking

Posts: 23
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline

i guess its just going to come down to trying to respect what they have if hes happy and suspending judgement.

Celeste: i agree its rude especialy when so frequent and trivial and usualy demeaning to him.

Monica: i guess the statement about behind closed doors would seem ironic to me and therefore humorous, does that make me a mysogonist? interesting though, i never thought of our relationships power dynamic.. or any of my friends for that matter. power exchange to me is most interesting on a sexual level, i guess because thats what turns me on. go figure!

Diamond: i thought that was incredibly insightful, thanks!

quote:

before You own someone it would be a good idea to follow through with identifying what part of his submission is bothering You. That way perhaps You can identify the qualities You are looking for in a submissive for Yourself as well.

(in reply to DivaDuchess)

Post #: 15

RE: latent submissive friend... need advice. - 9/5/2006 5:32:38 PM

LadyJulieAnn

Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sofaking

i have a question for other dominant folks out there... a really good friend of mine that i have known for nigh on 18 years is married to a woman who, for the most part, is a good person and makes him happy but is someone i consider to be overbearing, overly needy and overly sensitive. he seems to totaly roll over and take her verbal lashings and placate her demands and quite frankly i find it demeaning to him and a bit disgusting. i have always had a lot of respect for him growing up but increasingly lately, as i am coming into my own dominant persona, i am finding it hard to relate to him and starting to really dislike her. i feel hypocritical judging him or her when my own inclination is to dominate someone else in TPE relationship.

i love them both dispite what i consider to be personal flaws (nobodies perfect) and i want to try and reconcile this somehow. if you have experienced something similar perhaps you could enlighten me as to how you came to terms with this.

thanks in advance,

E

Your friend is obviously not making an effort to change his relationship situation, so it doesn't appear to be an issue for him. His wife sounds more domineering than dominant, and some people function well in that situation due to their own emotional needs, even though it seems very disturbing to someone outside of the situation.

If it's bothering you enough to want to stop spending time with him when he is with his wife, perhaps take him aside and say something like "It's difficult for me to see how your wife treats you sometimes, and it makes me uncomfortable when I am with you both because I worry about your well-being." Hopefully he will understand. It may just be a case of limiting your time with them. It's not uncommon to have friendships come and go because one person's needs or goals in life change.

Be well,
Julie

< Message edited by LadyJulieAnn -- 9/5/2006 5:50:40 PM >

(in reply to sofaking)

Post #: 16

RE: latent submissive friend... need advice. - 9/5/2006 5:47:42 PM

mp072004

Posts: 381
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

sofaking:
Monica: i guess the statement about behind closed doors would seem ironic to me and therefore humorous, does that make me a mysogonist? interesting though, i never thought of our relationships power dynamic.. or any of my friends for that matter. power exchange to me is most interesting on a sexual level, i guess because thats what turns me on. go figure!

No, not a misogynist; a male supremacist, or male chauvinist, if you prefer. It indicates that you don't view men and women as equals, and that it's not about specific men being superior to specific women, but about one's genitals (or, the gender one lives as, perhaps) indicating one's status.

Sure, power exchange may be most interesting to you on a sexual level, and it's often more interesting when we think self-consciously about it. However, some power dynamic exists organically in almost any interaction. Understanding the many ways I encountered and acted out inequal power helped me to understand how I would like to structure a relationship of explicit power inequality (i.e., d/s).

Sophia37--golly gee whillikers, thanks!

Monica

(in reply to sofaking)

Post #: 17

RE: latent submissive friend... need advice. - 9/5/2006 8:22:09 PM

sofaking

Posts: 23
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline

hmmmm... male supremacist? that may seem like a logical conclusion to you, but it's just not the case. i will endeavor to explain my convoluted thought process better in the future.

(in reply to mp072004)

Post #: 18

RE: latent submissive friend... need advice. - 9/6/2006 2:03:15 PM

LittleMissSub

Posts: 46
Joined: 2/23/2005
Status: offline

have you actually talked to your friend about this issue? have you said "you're wife's kinda pushy and overbearing to you sometimes. I as your friend for 18 years think that you don't like this behaviour. Do you like it? Is it an issue? etc etc"

i've had a similar experience with a friend, although not really D/s related.

A good friend of mine started dating this woman who is a HUGE flirt. she said at the beginning of their relationship that she was going to continue to be a flirt, and if she felt like it be with another person, male or female. That was something he'd have to accept if he wanted to be with her. When i learned of their relationship he asked me if she'd slept with anyone one weekend when a bunch of us were away and he wasn't there. he said "i don't care if she kisses someone, or flirts, but i care if she has sex with them"

over the course of the next few months i held my tongue and didn't say anything when i saw her making out with people, sometimes right in front of him. when i heard about oral sex, intimite connections and moments with other people, he even walked in on her sleeping with someone and didn't really do anything about it.

now, his last girlfriend had cheated on him, left him for another man and he was really messed up over it for over a year. really truely messed up. i know he's lonely and is getting on in years and just wants to settle down.

so one night, i just can't fucking take it anymore and i ask him why he puts up with it. she's taught him a great number of things, and she's done good for him, but why the hell does he put up with her polyamorous nature, when he's obviously not on the same page? i tell him that as a friend who truely cares it kills me to see him settling for something when i know he deserves to be loved in the way he wants to be loved. He has a good cry and says he doesn't know, he's lonely, they've been together for awhile blah blah blah. and in the end he doesn't do anything about it. i didn't press him on it, but i voiced my concerns, woke him up a little and he certainly wasn't upset at me for talking about it. at the time i told him i was so mad at myself for not saying anything sooner, so that i could save him some heart ache and he said he wished i had too.

i think the good friend thing to do is voice your concerns....talk about it. sometimes you're so caught up in something, and so used to the situation you're in it's hard to see what your life is really like, and an outside perspective, one that knows you well is eye opening.

(in reply to sofaking)

Post #: 19

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