RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil.

RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (Full Version)

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sub4hire -> RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (9/7/2006 3:49:43 PM)
What is the name you chose for yourself here crapman? What else should I call you? Unless of course someone made up your name for you and you don't know how to change it? Sounds pretty derogatory to me..and if I were searching. Someone who thinks they are shitty to begin with...I probably would'nt search any further. And no debating is not an insult calling me the names you do is. That is why I do not take you seriously...however I've already explained this once.

seeksfemslave -> RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (9/7/2006 4:17:15 PM)
Sub4hire Mary Wollstonecraft who wrote Frankenstein also Published in 1792, A Vindication of the Rights of Woman which was the first great feminist treatise. Wollstonecraft preached that intellect will always govern and sought “to persuade women to endeavour to acquire strength, both of mind and body, and to convince them that soft phrases, susceptibility of heart, delicacy of sentiment, and refinement of taste, are synonimous [sic] with all that is fine with that which is female..” Please read and inwardly digest and dont talk to crappyman like that ! If you please.

cuddleheart50 -> RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (9/7/2006 5:04:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear Bloody hell!!!!! I do mean Stone The Fucking Crows!! All this about nothing.... Hate to tell you guys, here in Aussie we've been doing this for over 10 years.. Howabout comming up with something new and inervative like the people here who run vechicals on H2O... Gawd fuck a duck even........ It's news to me IB, I don't get out much...hehehe

SirKenin -> RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (9/7/2006 7:37:51 PM)
My friend has a friend (Yes, I know, sounds tacky) that has an old Jetta that has been running on used cooking oil for years. It looks horrible under the hood, but looks do not really matter. Interesting thing is that he designed and built the contraption himself. I was quite impressed.

CrappyDom -> RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (9/7/2006 8:23:36 PM)
I know a group of guys who run all sorts of vehicles off of used vegitable oil. Only problem is that the oil has value outside of a fuel and is only cheap to use because very few people use it for fuel. It isn't some secret panacea

Termyn8or -> RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (9/7/2006 9:34:08 PM)
seeksfem; I made a differentiation between theoretical and effective compression. Valves do not open and close like people might think they should. Intake as well as exhaust valve opening angle as well as duration is offset from what one would think, This is because of the engine dynamic called volumetris efficiency. Look it up if you'd like. If intake and exhaust valves opened "on time" to the simplistic thinker, we would have engines with VEs of about 25. As it is we have fuel injected cars using a bit more radical cam than could be used with a carbuerated car, and still have a smooth idle and meet emissions. Cam technology has come a long way. Now what happens is they make everything happen early, this increases the VE, but only starting at a certain RPM. Opening and closing a TDC or BDC is great for starting, but runs like shit. There is also a certain amount of valve overlap. To the simplistic thinker this seems like a waste, or a smog deal, but it is not. The valve overlap (time at which both intake and exhaust are open) varies per manufacturer and application. A certain amount actually improves performance by letting the small portion of the exhaust phase that produces scavenging of the exhaust by the mass of the existing exhaust's inertia exiting the tailpipe. This helps you pull in more of the incoming charge and increases performance. It improves vacuum and horsepower. There is always a difference in theoretical compression and effective compression at idle or stopped. If, for example on #1 cylinder the valves don't close right at the beginning of the compression stroke, effective compression is reduced. By an increase in VE it is actually raised at higer compression. Time is now a factor, and the new intake charge needs time to get into the cylinder for compression and eventual combustion. Vacuum at the high end, as well as other benefits exist. It generally results in a lower crankcase pressure, and high RPMs is where you want the increased performance. There are also schemes that use variable valve timing like Porchse, as well as variable valve duration which is usually aftermarket. Either way performance is enhanced. This must be manipulated mechanically even if you use a computer. You have to be careful if trying to implement it in an interference class engine though, which is one that can blow when the valve and the piston try to occupy the same space at the same time. Many old high theoretical compression engines are like this. In other words, if your timing chain goes you will have to replace about five valves, probably most of them intake valves. To understand cam technology you must understand the movement of air. You need to understand that air has mass, and they will build a car with a 10:1 compression ratio, but the cam abates that, and that is when they are building a high RPM engine. So, instead of making the theoretical compression tolerable and using the right cam to abate it, we take and have three valves. When the rockers are disabled for deisel operation it is close to theoretical. When the longer duration valves kick in for gas operation it is only using part of the stroke for compression, thus reducing it's effective compression ratio. I hope I cleared this up. T

Termyn8or -> RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (9/7/2006 9:37:37 PM)
volumetric efficiency sorry T

seeksfemslave -> RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (9/8/2006 1:32:38 AM)
Termyn8tor... Volumetric Efficiency in an IC engine is a measure of the volume of air that can be made to enter the engine relative to... without looking it up... I cannot recall. possibly the volume at TDC. Compression ratio is as I described earlier. They are NOT the same. I have communicated with sub4hire on this matter and confidently expect she will agree with me. You're welcome. Edit to say that above guess as to what VE really is must be wrong because air is compressed at TDC. Therefore the reference volume COULD be that volume that is present when the Inlet Valve opens. Exciting isn't it ? Is it true that ...Suck Press Bang Fart......describes the 4 stroke cycle.

Celeste43 -> RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (9/8/2006 2:28:04 AM)
I just wish to point out that New York is a Mid-Atlantic state, not part of New England.

seeksfemslave -> RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (9/8/2006 3:08:46 AM)
Celeste I hope NY manages to stay afloat then

cuddleheart50 -> RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (9/8/2006 2:59:20 PM)
New York is a Mid-Atlantic state? Hmmmmm

ScooterTrash -> RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (9/8/2006 4:04:09 PM)
I think what Termyn8tor is getting at is that the realized compression ratio can in fact be altered by the valve timing, because it does change the volumetric efficiency. I've never heard of it being used to do that on purpose, like to create a variable compression ratio as described, but in theory it would work...albeit by making the engine less efficient at the lower ratio. Typical example would be on a race engine, where the overlap is substantial. Try to do a compression test on one and it is quite decieving, since at low RPM the realized compression ratio is quite low, due to both valves (intake & exhaust) being open at the same time for several degrees of crankshaft rotation. Sort of explains why some of the street rodders get away with 12.5 to one pistons on the street, they are running way too big of a cam..lol. All that being said though...I still don't see this as a logical way to reduce the compression ratio so that a diesel engine could also run on gasoline...seems like a variable size compression chamber would be much more efficient than bleeding off pressure with mistimed valves. Now if I could just figure out how to do that..I might make a buck or two.

Termyn8or -> RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (9/8/2006 4:49:23 PM)
Seeks; I totally agree, but understand that is a definition. I know the formula for compression ratio and it is indeed as simple as that. However when you manipulate the valve timing things happen. For example if you wanted to build a deisel that could be adjusted to run offf regular gasoline, I'm saying that threoretically you could have an extra intake valve per cylinder that stays open until let's say 30 degrees BTDC. Now you are only using a portion of the stroke to compress the mixture. So I am not contradicting you, compression ratio is indeed the difference in cylinder volume at TDC and BDC. Thirty BTDC degrees might not be optimum either. That would mean you are only using about 14% of the stroke on compression. I also realise that such an engine would not be extremely efficient on gasoline, but the technology is promising I think. The diversity of fuels that will work is a big advantage. I am thinking along some other lines in this dierection as well, perhaps in the gas mode it could burn propane or even natural gas. Ethanol would be a good one to include as well. While it's impractical in most furnces for example, to have a dual set of jets for natural gas and propane or butane, I have considered an alternative that might work. Operating somewhat like an EGR valve in a car, this would pump oxygen deprived flue into the gas during propane use. It should have the same effect, that is to lower combustion temperature. Thus you can burn a higher enegy fuel without rejetting. These ideas I think could be made to work. One of these days I am going to work on them. Now there are also ideas I think could work but not with today's technology. For example an air conditioner that doesn't use refrigerant. Quite suited for automobile use as in it's early stages it also would not be all that efficient. Cmail me if you want to hear about that one. This thread should probably stay in the automotive realm. Used cooking oil is great, it is a way to get rid of a waste product and use it for something useful. I think electric could be better. With an electroniclly controlled CVT and a DC convertor using Schottky devices (highly efficient) braking power could be delivered mostly by the motor and used to charge the batteries. I could design such a thing, and I could do it without a computer, but it would be foolish to not use a computer, so I would consult with an expert in the field, or at least a very promising amateur. Of course no matter how efficient you get an electric car, there is still the issue of generating the electricity to charge it. Government and big business blunders, probably on purpose, have stinted many good ideas relating to alternative power. We've all read what happened to the old water injection carbeurator. Yup the oil companies have had their dirty little fingers in alot of pies for quite some time now. Couple of other things, one poster mentioned that pollution is why you can't buy a diesel car in CA, while this may be true, they only refer to new vehicles, what is aready in existence is not required to be scrapped. I don't remember the other one right now, I'll be baaack. T

seeksfemslave -> RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (9/9/2006 12:42:22 AM)
Well Scooter/Termyn8tr I now see what MrT was trying to explain but he did consistantly say compression ratio when it appears he meant compression pressure. Just a mixup I guess. I should have stopped and had a think as to what he really meant. Cya.

ScooterTrash -> RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (9/9/2006 4:44:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave Well Scooter/Termyn8tr I now see what MrT was trying to explain but he did consistantly say compression ratio when it appears he meant compression pressure. Just a mixup I guess. I should have stopped and had a think as to what he really meant. Cya. Nodz....I was reading both of your posts and could see both sides, that's why I tried to jump in and help. It's not that often you see "one" person who knows what the hell they are talking about and it appeared you both were knowledgable about what you were saying..hated to see it get off on the wrong foot due to misinterpretation. Now I just want Mr "T" to come up with that variable combustion chamber so we can all retire in style...lol.

seeksfemslave -> RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (9/9/2006 4:59:56 AM)
Blimey Scooter, two sides merge to understand one another. Is that a first on Collarme ?

ScooterTrash -> RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (9/9/2006 5:03:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave Blimey Scooter, two sides merge to understand one another. Is that a first on Collarme ? No kidding...what is the world coming to...roflmao?

jesskitty -> RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (9/9/2006 2:36:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen quote: ORIGINAL: jesskitty somewhat related since it's about alternative fuels. i know there are commericals now for some other type of gas(i think it's different than disel, it might be diseal) and i know the company of it is BP..but my thing is that half of the gas stations you go to only have regular gas..so i don't understand how you can properly market a car where you might not be able to fuel it in your town. i'm still waiting on the manul for using cooking oil for gas to come out. The companies that produce and refine oil products are generally those who also market it for public consumption. What sort of business would market a product in direct competition with their own highly profitable product, or not seek to prevent the use of that product as far as possible? E i understand that. i just was wondering i guess how they expect people to buy cars with diseal if the town where they live and the ones closest to it don't have diseal gas avaible to people. on the cooking oil bit, i'm not a mechanic, and i don't know much about cars, but my question about it is, would it mess up your car if it was a car that took the regular gas(i don't know it's specific name)?

Termyn8or -> RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (9/9/2006 3:35:01 PM)
Scoot and Seeks; It came to me last night, ever heard of a precombustion chamber ? They have been used and IIRC the results were good. Let the gas air mixture come in through that. Let the volume be enough to bring the compression down to a reasonable level for gas. When the valve to the precombustion chamber closes the deisel injectors feed fuel, when open, not only does it affect the compression, it is a path for the mixture to enter, decomplicating head design. Also when closed it isolates the spark plug from the deisel's normal soot, which could foul a non used spark plug. To implement this, we should forget all about normal valves in an engine. This does not have to actuate a cam rotation rate, it is simply an on/off deal. Perhaps a desmodramic system. In case you haven't heard of it, that is a valve system that does not use springs. The valve train actually uses the cam to pull the valve shut. It was used on some German engines, but not much. It is highly expensive, but then my beater car has a roller cam, something that was very esoteric in days past. Think of this, if you could start an engine on gas, and pretty much just flick start it with fuel injection, you could probably switch to deisel mode faster than you would've had to wait for the glow plugs in a conventional deisel. I think the significance of this subject is not really just that you can drive a deisel on used cooking oil, that is a manifestation. I think the importance lies in being able to not be dependent on the oil companies. All of this research and everything about anything but oil has been suppressed. I've read the argument for steam as well, and while I don't agree completely, I do not disagree completely. One of their major advantages is indeed the wide range of fuels that can power them. Get anything that makes heat, and some water and it'll move. Wanna talk about a more direct conversion ? If you own a bigscreen TV, an RPTV that is, self contained, it has a very large fresnel lens right underneath the screen you see, which is either a diffuser or a lenticular. If you order a new fresnel for one of these sets it has a warning on the box "DO NOT leave this screen in direct sunlight". I know why, I work on these things and one time a fcowowrker and I took a bare fresnel outside. On a sunny day we were able to melt the asphalt in the parking lot. I guess they mean it. Now imagine a system that would focus the sun's rays on your boiler.This is not easy especially as you turn and whatever else. Clouds would not be a good thing either, but that would be probably the most direct conversion of energy possibly with today's technology. The electric car is not even close because of other factors. But that doesn't negate the point, a steam engine can run off of anything that produces heat. There are groups of people who experiment with this technology, quite avidly I might add. I can't say they are right, but it is a worthy endeavour. See I am not one of the "if the shit hits the fan" people, I am one of the "when the shit hits the fan" people. Only question is if it'll happen in my lifetime. I really don't care if it does. If some real alternative to invading countries and stealing their oil isn't found soon, we are in for a hell of a ride. If an alternative IS found, expectr trouble as well. The owners of the world wil have had their teeth pulled and I'll betr they start a scare campaign against whatever stops their gravy train. Basically expect trouble either way. Think of all you depend on big money for, water, sewer, electricity, phone, petrol, natural gas (if you have it), even internet access. They got us by the balls. Remember the last power outage you had ? Remember the big one a few years ago ? We have a dual grid and both of them went down. I suspect they might've been reminding us who is in charge, but I can't prove it. But then what about the rolling blackouts or browouts during the hot months ? Anything that can get us any physical independence from these greedy _________ is a good thing. Sure I could go out and buy a deisel generator for my house and have power when nobody else does, but just who am I giving my money to then ? We need more, we need to think outside the box. Anything we can do to stop feeding them our money is good. I am all for it. T

seeksfemslave -> RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cooking Oil. (9/9/2006 4:22:56 PM)
MrT First desmodromic valve mechanisms were used on Italian motor bikes until very recently., probably still are for all I know, The idea for a separate chamber sounds good, but I bet there is a problem sealing it when the engine is in the high compression mode. If it would work the chamber could be on the top of the engine with conventional valves poking in at an angle below it. Incidently is the cooking oil supposed to ignite under pressure or is a spark plug needed ? Am I thinking what you are describing ?

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