Termyn8or
Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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Seeks (et alii) ;
Oils like that will only ignite in a deisel. High volatility fuels and gaseous fuels would be ignited by a spark plug.
Incidentally my friend, you seem to know a bit of history here. I have a piece of trivia I heard a very long time ago from someone older than I, the deisel shouldn't be called a deisel at all. Rudolf Deisel, a German immigrant, stole the idea from White motors here in the US, scurried back to Germany real quick and patented it. That's what I heard anyway.
I hate to do it but I need to digress just a bit.
How does a deisel work ? OK, with the high compression ratio the mixture gets hot enough to ignite. Why ? It is not the friction, nor the glow plug (except at startup) that produces this heat. Actually it produced no heat at all. While this may sound strange it is true. Simply compressing air does not create heat, what it does is concentrate heat into a smaller area.
Three inch bore and three inch stroke holds X amount of air, and in the air is certain amount of heat. With the heat not dissipated the same amount of heat energy in BTUs is present, but being in a smaller space results in a higher temperature.
I had originally decided not to go into this, but I changed my mind. If not on topic it is damn close. Air conditioniong without refrigerant. Outside air is pumped into a high pressure heat dissipator, with all them BTUs crammed in. The fins, radiating surface whatever of the dissipator is at a higher temperature than the outsode air so heat energy is dissipated into the atmosphere.
A pressure regulator sends air at a normal velocity into the cabin. Heat energy has been removed when it was pumped up to a high pressure. Therefore the air is cooler. This works on basic thermodynamic principles.
But then here's why it is not done :
1. You have to compress clean air, no oil or use an oil seperator, people will be breathing it.
2. The compressor must maintain pressure as the air is bled off from the dissipator. Therefore it must mainain several atmospheres while supplying enough volume to actually satisfy the CFM requirements of the discharge air.
That's a pretty tall order for a compressor. I think we're talking a multi stage turbine compressor here. That doesn't mean I don't think it could be done, but it probably wouldn't be cost effective for quite a while. That's if anybody even decides to do it.
Frankly, I would rather attempt to build the multi-fuel engine. This air conditioner might need 400-500 PSI in the dissipator, then has to feed enough air volume for the whole system, directly.
Seeks, even if you don't hold the "title" of engineer, you got an engineer bone in you. You can see how hard it is to make that thing work. That compressor will need space age materials and oil free bearings, or sealed bearings. Not like today where you mix the oil with the refrigerant. It'll probably need some kickass filtering too.
(BTW, kickass is indeed an engineering term, it means difficult)
Also, if you remember Smokey, he developed and built what he called the first stage adibiatic engine. IIRC it was two cylinder and had about 3 HP per cubic inch. Normal operating temperature was like 400 F.
His plans included going to a fourth stage adibiatic engine running at a very high temperature, using exotic ceramics and synthetic lubricants. Of course normal motor oil would turn into glue. I was wondering if antone else had heard of this and if Smokey got any farther. I think he was quite "seasoned" when the article came out in the 70s. I wonder if the guy is alive. I believe his last name was Yunick but I'm not sure. Perhaps I'll Google it later.
Which brings us to some very old stuff I read. From the fifties, there was an article in Motor Trend or some magazine like that with actual engineers. See a deisel uses injectors inside the cylinder because it is efficient, this stuff does not want to burn, and this is an excellent way to coerce it to burn. Their discussion, the transcript of which I read was about using direct cylinder injection in a gas engine.
The discussion ranged from "flamefront" to piston speed. They were trying to make cars go faster. One of the participants, thinking about efficiency I suppose said "But all you've done is burn more fuel". It was discussed how you wouldn't need any "hotshot" of fuel, such as supplied by the accelerator pump on the old cars, or by the computer when the throttle position sensor calls for it. Indeed when they put the injectors right by the intake valves instead of in the throttle body, alot less hotshot mixture was required.
What intriques me is the old Bosch system without a computer. The air flow sensor was a vane, it connected to a mechanical linkage along with the accelerator and other things. It figured out how to keep the mixture right without a computer or a lambda sensor. I think that is impressive.
I think of it this way. Computers are prone to failure, damage etc., for years MIGs had a distinct advantage over our fighters because they could still fly without the computer. Hydraulics could do it. When I say I could figure out a very efficient electric car that charges the batteries as soon as you hit the brakes I mean it, but without a computer the task it quite daunting. You have to raise the ratio of the tranny while converting the generated DC high enough so that the motor is loaded enough to stop the vehicle. Try all that without a computer.
An electric car might as well be computerized, because what fucks up electronics fucks up computers. You could have a regular old car with points and a carb, and after an EMP it might still run. Don't discount EMPs as only happening when the shit hits the fan, they happen every day, every time lightning strikes. I have seen it.
I work in the electronics field and it is getting so complicated I am considering doing ceramic tile or something for a living. Actually I'm not too bad. Back to the point, back when such things were worth fixing, two units came in from the same house. Lightning had struck about 10 feet from the house.
The amp wouldn't kick in the speaker relay, that was troubleshot through and there was no fault condition, I saw voltage at the base of the relay driver transistor and it wasn't pulling down the collector. I replaced it to no avail. The diode across the relay was replaced. No good. The EMP from the lightning had partially shorted the relay coil. It was so fast the protection diode couldn't catch it. Then there was the autreverse cassette deck (back when they cost money) which used a relay to switch to the other head when the motor reversed. I'll give you three guesses on what the trouble was, no, I'll just say it, the motors would reverse but it didn't switch heads, so it was playing side one backwards. The relay was bad. Contacts were nice and clean, but they weren't ever going to actuate again.
I guess the point here is, if the true endevour is to become independent we need to think in alot more directions than just locomotion. While it is very important, there are so many things we use technology for it is not funny. The point is, even older cars used electronics, which is vulnerable. Although in a simpler state, it is still there. Even in a car from the 60s a nearby lightning strike can destroy the ignition coil, the starter and the alternator (or generator, but alternators are more vulnerable because of the rectifiers). Anything with a coil of wire is a sitting duck.
How about this; Remember Gilligan's Island where he had a car that he pedaled ? Perhaps a complicated mechanical linkage or better yet hydraulics oir something, you get into the car and there are pedals for each rider. Each pedals. The leverage, or "gear" each person is in can be adjusted. Fat people would (in my car) be required to take on a higher gear. The older people or the infirm could be cut some slack. Sometimes only a couple of people would do the work to give their guests a ride. This would be much better than "ass, gas or grass".
I can see to implement this with steel is a monumental task, but doing it with hydraulics or possibly even pneumatics has a bit of hope IMO. Then someone could say they drove from FL to KY on two steak dinners and six baloney sandwiches.
So everybody gets a pump. Pneumatics would be great, just pump up the tank. Your seat if comfy, armrest and all, but your feet go on pedals. You and the other riders pump. Your hands are free while riding so if you're carpooling you can read the paper or work on your laptop. (if pedaling I guess we would need like a tray for your laptop).
Now those of you who know me probably assume that I am sitting here before noon drinking a beer in my underwear, but I am doing that because I CAN. I work. I can't do it all the time but then this is the time for me to come here and pester you all. In that light, while in no way do I want to get into the political here, I simply cannot stop myself sometimes.
A pneunatic system where all occupants pump up a tank of sorts, and this propels the vehicle, how would one distribute the load ? Communist. Yes Sir if I can get this going I have found the venue where communism works. Each according to their needs and each according to their abilities. This could work. Heavier people are set to a higher gear so to speak. My Mom rides for free because of that childbirth thing she did.
Of course the driver could say "OK, everybody get pumping, we're getting on the freeway", and then once up to speed you can lay back a little. It's acceleration that takes all the power. Of course the drivers could also say "Ye slackards !, if thoust don't pump I am sure we shall be crushed by yon semi with eighteen wheels, no more no less. PUMP thy lazy mutha". Perhaps I'll not persue that.
To the OP, I didn't mean to hijack your thread, but I don't think I did. Using the oil for fuel got pretty much hashed out, and since you brought it up I think you're also interested in alternative energy.
I can think of no better way to have a rider propelled vehicle than using either hydraulics or pneunatics. If someone could figure a way that the rider could contribute to the spinning of a large flywheel somehow that would be great, and actually the final design should include a flywheel. This contributes to acceleration when needed.
You would have a car, a method of transportation. You would get exercise as you rode to and from work, the grocery store, anywhere. Like a bicycle, but this vehicle would be a bit bigger and provide shelter from the elements so it could be used in the winter.
No matter how many people are in the car I don't think you will be able to zip along at 80 MPH. Actually I could get to work without using the freeway, but I really don't want to, but to go to the store etc.,basically things like that, dropping the kids off at school, picking up someone because they don't drive, running a stupid 7 miles down the road to bust a scrip. Picking up a pizza, borrowing power tools. It's just that this might be no good on the freeway.
You know you waste ALOT more gas driving around the city doing errands and bullshit. I am kinda talking myself into this here. Think about it, when you need to get on the freeway grab a Buick or something. Grocery shopping, if you live in the city or a suburb usually you don't need a freeway to get there.
Some people need a freeway to get damnear anywhere, so this solution is not for them. But in the city, we gotta figure out how big and heavy we want it, how many people etc. I think a vehicle, which would have a vent system and heat for the winter, that seats four, could propel itself at 30-40 MPH, which is plenty for city driving. Remember city driving is where your car wastes the most gas. Sitting there idling at red lights etc.
Actually one of the better points of an electric car is that there is no idling. When it stops the current drain stops, no waste. Probably at this time the best solution is to have a regular car or truck, and some other vehicle, like an electric or a pedal driven.
These self powered vehicles could be designated to certain lanes on the freeway even. For example they are allowed to ride the burm. While carpoolers are way over on the left lane, these things could be relegated to the right lane.
All ideas, all my opinion. If you are a real engineer (this is not directed at anyone in particular) and want to pick my theory apart with figures that humans cannot produce enough power to do this, feel free to do so. I will simply set my sights on enhancing it or, if need be, hang around with stronger people :-)
But like with the OP, somebody got somewhere without paying "them". I firmly believe that anything we can do towards that end is a good thing.
T
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RE: Man Travels From Florida to Kentucky on Used Cookin... - 
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