RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films

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angelic -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/10/2006 8:20:13 PM)
Maybe i'm a bit slow tonight... but doesn't the Jewish religion believe in God? Honestly i'm not sure how 'Christianity' has anything at all to do with marking our currency with "In God We Trust"... i can see you might have a gripe if it said "In Christ We Trust".... but then again... maybe i am just completely confused about what Christianity means... i thought it was the following and believing in Christ as something more than a man, i.e. the Son of God.

MistressStchWich -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/10/2006 8:28:36 PM)
I know without a doubt the tax dollars used to harass the individual in a concentual situation would be much better used to feed or house or provide medical care for children of single parents working two fulltime jobs and still unable to pay rent and the basic medical expenses. I work with these families all the time and it is atrocious that these parents pay twice as much withholding as their one job counterparts and can't get any assistance from teh very government sucking them dry. OOOOOh....don't get me started on George Dum-a-u Botch...thank GOD he can't hold office a third term!

Lordandmaster -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/10/2006 8:32:15 PM)
The United States was consciously founded as a state that was not to be beholden to any religious tradition whatsoever. I get creeped out, frankly, when people start telling me what tradition I belong to. Usually it's part of a larger claim on my allegiance and behavior. quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY You need to think back a little further. The US is part of the Western philosophical tradition. Perhaps instead of calling it "The West", I should call it the Greco-Roman-Hebraic tradition.

KnightofMists -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/10/2006 8:34:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy These type of "concepts" are the biggest part of the global problem. The USA was founded on the principle of "seperation of church and state", that means keeping the religious zealots out of state and foreign policy, period! I agree ... However... I don't agree in total with the rest of your post. Usually onesided cause in complex situation is hardly ever going to be right. I do agree that religious organizations of all types seek to effect infuence with governments to champion their specific agendas. Not much different than Business and Labour Groups. Lobbiest or special interest groups are very much a part of politics in our modern times. At the same time... these groups represent VOTES. The politicains are not just lobbied but seek out groups that they believe can give them the votes to keep them in power. It is more a chicken and an egg issue rather than one being the only cause. A second aspect.. Governments, Business, Labour and Religious groups are made of individuals. Each individual will have their own agenda. As individuals come together.. politics will be the order of the day. As much as I admire the desire of the State and church to be seperate... it is as vain as keeping Business or Labour out of government. This is why that I am very much for policies and laws that seek to improve individual representation at the expense of unified lobby groups. Democracy was founded on the believe of one voice one vote.... but in our modern times... the vote is forgotten the moment after an election. between elections it is the lobby groups that hold sway with our politicians. They hold sway not with just votes... but financial backing and as well as the ground forces during election time. Votes can be bought... unfortunately... many are blind to it because of the manipulative way it occurs.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/10/2006 8:56:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster The United States was consciously founded as a state that was not to be beholden to any religious tradition whatsoever. I get creeped out, frankly, when people start telling me what tradition I belong to. Usually it's part of a larger claim on my allegiance and behavior. quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY You need to think back a little further. The US is part of the Western philosophical tradition. Perhaps instead of calling it "The West", I should call it the Greco-Roman-Hebraic tradition. LaM, I hate to tell you, but you don't have a choice in the matter. The above post of mine that you quoted really isn't my opinion. It is a fact of history. Whether or not you want to see this as some sort of attempt to "get your allegiance" simply because I was the individual to post it here on CM, doesn't change the facts. FHky

FirmhandKY -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/10/2006 9:02:04 PM)
Exactly.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/10/2006 9:20:29 PM)
Uhhh, no, it's not a fact, it's an interpretation of a fact, and I think I've given many reasons (to which you haven't responded) why it's a bad interpretation of that fact. Thomas Jefferson wrote his ideas about what the nation was supposed to be. So did many of the other Founding Fathers. We can read what they wrote, and it doesn't bear out your interpretation of America or its roots. quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster The United States was consciously founded as a state that was not to be beholden to any religious tradition whatsoever. I get creeped out, frankly, when people start telling me what tradition I belong to. Usually it's part of a larger claim on my allegiance and behavior. quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY You need to think back a little further. The US is part of the Western philosophical tradition. Perhaps instead of calling it "The West", I should call it the Greco-Roman-Hebraic tradition. LaM, I hate to tell you, but you don't have a choice in the matter. The above post of mine that you quoted really isn't my opinion. It is a fact of history.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/10/2006 9:50:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Uhhh, no, it's not a fact, it's an interpretation of a fact, and I think I've given many reasons (to which you haven't responded) why it's a bad interpretation of that fact. Thomas Jefferson wrote his ideas about what the nation was supposed to be. So did many of the other Founding Fathers. We can read what they wrote, and it doesn't bear out your interpretation of America or its roots. quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster The United States was consciously founded as a state that was not to be beholden to any religious tradition whatsoever. I get creeped out, frankly, when people start telling me what tradition I belong to. Usually it's part of a larger claim on my allegiance and behavior. quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY You need to think back a little further. The US is part of the Western philosophical tradition. Perhaps instead of calling it "The West", I should call it the Greco-Roman-Hebraic tradition. LaM, I hate to tell you, but you don't have a choice in the matter. The above post of mine that you quoted really isn't my opinion. It is a fact of history. LaM, I haven't respond to some of your statements for the simple fact that I've come to the conclusion that you aren't understanding what I'm writing anyway. Why, I'm not sure, and am unwilling to speculate. I don't know your background, but I do know that you have wicked sense of humor, and basically I like you, and your personality from your posts. I have no desire to alienate you, nor get into a pissing contest when I have tried to keep this on an intellectual plane. Take this as a tactical retreat if you will, but I will also say that you don't know me very well either, and the sense I get from your post is that you've been slightly ... less than friendly in your attitude. Why not just call a truce, and agree to disagree? I never did particularly like getting unnecessarily confrontational on a forum, even if I'm somewhat skilled at it, and it seems as if you are trying to push my buttons to get it. Peace? FHky

NastyDaddy -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/10/2006 10:03:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Nasty, You need to think back a little further. The US is part of the Western philosophical tradition. Perhaps instead of calling it "The West", I should call it the Greco-Roman-Hebraic tradition. FHky 230 years is far enough, and somehow I don't think the native indians share your opinion. After all, it was their homeland that was taken from them by force in order to establish the west and freedom of religion. They had no ties to european religious fundamentals other than being raided by Spanish conquistadors who came from the south for their treasures, long before the european settlers arrived on the east coast. What is your definition of the west... and how long has it been there?

Lordandmaster -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/10/2006 10:08:55 PM)
Well, Firmhand, I have no objections to a truce, but that doesn't mean I'm never going to comment when you say something I don't agree with. I don't see, either, that I've been either friendly or unfriendly. I've responded to what you've said, or rather what I THINK you mean by what you've said (because, honestly, it's not always very clear). But since you asked me to be friendly, I'll give one last friendly comment. You said this: quote: I don't know your background, but I do know that you have wicked sense of humor, and basically I like you, and your personality from your posts. I think you sincerely meant that as a compliment, but I have to ask--what on earth does my background have to do with anything? Would your opinion possibly be different if you did know my background? Maybe you're doing this unintentionally, so I'll point out, in the spirit of friendship, that that kind of comment rubs people the wrong way. I think the idea of categorizing people according to their backgrounds has to be related to your view that America lies in the Greco-Roman-Hebraic tradition; again, I'm just inferring, but if I'm right about that, it's a good example of how you and I think in different terms.

NastyDaddy -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/10/2006 10:19:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelic Maybe i'm a bit slow tonight... but doesn't the Jewish religion believe in God? Honestly i'm not sure how 'Christianity' has anything at all to do with marking our currency with "In God We Trust"... i can see you might have a gripe if it said "In Christ We Trust".... but then again... maybe i am just completely confused about what Christianity means... i thought it was the following and believing in Christ as something more than a man, i.e. the Son of God. Oh please.... now you are saying the Jewish religion does not embrace being a believer in Christ? Slice it up however you want, after all it's your god, so fight over him between yourselves. My point is simply your god is not everybody's god no matter what label you want to paint your god with. The fear of being wrong when the lights go out is the basis of most god fearing religions, almost like you are special and know the truth... and all the other euphemisms religious zealots like to push upon others. Religion is your kink not mine, so allow me that and keep your kink out of my government and it's foreign policy.. after all, I'm not telling you that you are an idiot because you believe. I give you that freedom to enjoy your kink, not to brainwash me or change my country in ways to only your liking. I still don't see how you can believe in the son of god, but not god.... new twist on your kink? Either way, I don't need your god on my money, in my courthouse/legal system, in my schools... or in the White House.... not in any aspect of my government.

NastyDaddy -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/10/2006 10:29:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy These type of "concepts" are the biggest part of the global problem. The USA was founded on the principle of "seperation of church and state", that means keeping the religious zealots out of state and foreign policy, period! I agree ... However... I don't agree in total with the rest of your post. Usually onesided cause in complex situation is hardly ever going to be right. I do agree that religious organizations of all types seek to effect infuence with governments to champion their specific agendas. Not much different than Business and Labour Groups. Lobbiest or special interest groups are very much a part of politics in our modern times. At the same time... these groups represent VOTES. The politicains are not just lobbied but seek out groups that they believe can give them the votes to keep them in power. It is more a chicken and an egg issue rather than one being the only cause. A second aspect.. Governments, Business, Labour and Religious groups are made of individuals. Each individual will have their own agenda. As individuals come together.. politics will be the order of the day. As much as I admire the desire of the State and church to be seperate... it is as vain as keeping Business or Labour out of government. This is why that I am very much for policies and laws that seek to improve individual representation at the expense of unified lobby groups. Democracy was founded on the believe of one voice one vote.... but in our modern times... the vote is forgotten the moment after an election. between elections it is the lobby groups that hold sway with our politicians. They hold sway not with just votes... but financial backing and as well as the ground forces during election time. Votes can be bought... unfortunately... many are blind to it because of the manipulative way it occurs. You are entitled to enjoy the freedom of your religious choice, including not adhering to any religious cause. Why is it that religion is the bandwagon vehicle, and afforded no taxation like the rest of us? The religious narrow minded influences in government and now in US foreign policy is not consistent with the founding fathers intent as outlined in the documents they prepared as the roadmap in the birth of the US... all the religious ammended touches are definitely one-sided and inconsistent... almost akin to a fast speading and mutating virus that sadly affects a large segment of the US population.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/11/2006 1:10:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Well, Firmhand, I have no objections to a truce, but that doesn't mean I'm never going to comment when you say something I don't agree with. I don't see, either, that I've been either friendly or unfriendly. I've responded to what you've said, or rather what I THINK you mean by what you've said (because, honestly, it's not always very clear). But since you asked me to be friendly, I'll give one last friendly comment. You said this: quote: I don't know your background, but I do know that you have wicked sense of humor, and basically I like you, and your personality from your posts. I think you sincerely meant that as a compliment, but I have to ask--what on earth does my background have to do with anything? Would your opinion possibly be different if you did know my background? Maybe you're doing this unintentionally, so I'll point out, in the spirit of friendship, that that kind of comment rubs people the wrong way. I think the idea of categorizing people according to their backgrounds has to be related to your view that America lies in the Greco-Roman-Hebraic tradition; again, I'm just inferring, but if I'm right about that, it's a good example of how you and I think in different terms. LaM, "Your background" means simply that, and I'm not sure why your are sensitive about the words. I don't know if you are a tenured college professor, or a plumber, a professional porn producer. I don't know if you have spent 30 years studying the arts or if you've spent the last 10 years in an asylum. I simply don't have enough information about what you believe, your experiences with religion to make a judgement as to why we have a lack of communications. Should I attribute it to willfullness, because you were almost a human sacrifice when you were 10, or to a life-long of careful thought and study? I simply don't know enough to make any valid assumptions, so I simply choose to make no assumptions. I guess we do think differently. And I have no problem with you disagreeing with me, or anything I may write or say. Whale away. In this particular conversation, I chose not to get into a "knock down drag out". Doesn't mean I won't, or can't on another subject or in another thread. I'm just not in the mood. FHky

FirmhandKY -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/11/2006 1:14:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Nasty, You need to think back a little further. The US is part of the Western philosophical tradition. Perhaps instead of calling it "The West", I should call it the Greco-Roman-Hebraic tradition. FHky 230 years is far enough, and somehow I don't think the native indians share your opinion. After all, it was their homeland that was taken from them by force in order to establish the west and freedom of religion. They had no ties to european religious fundamentals other than being raided by Spanish conquistadors who came from the south for their treasures, long before the european settlers arrived on the east coast. What is your definition of the west... and how long has it been there? Nasty, You ain't thinking wide enough, or long enough. Think thousands of years, rather than a couple of hundred, and think outside of the continent of North America. quote: ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy Oh please.... now you are saying the Jewish religion does not embrace being a believer in Christ? uh, Nasty, if there was a Jew who "embraced being a believer in Christ" he would be a Christian. FHky

FirmhandKY -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/11/2006 1:57:34 AM)
ahh, hell ... Western Culture (click for the full article) Western culture or Western civilization is a term used to refer to the cultures of the people of European origin and their descendants. It comprises the broad heritage of social norms, ethical values, traditional customs (such as religious beliefs) and specific artifacts and technologies as shared within the Western sphere of influence. The term "Western" is often used in contrast to Asian, African, or Arab nations. * The concept of Western culture is generally linked to the classical definition of Western world. In this definition, Western culture is the set of literary, scientific, musical, and philosophical principles which set it apart from other great civilizations. It applies to countries whose history is strongly marked by Western European immigration or settlement, and is not restricted to Western Europe. Much of this set of traditions is collected in the Western canon. * The origins of Western culture are often cited as ancient Greece, the Roman Empire, and Catholic and Protestant Christianity, and as such, some describe it as "Judeo-Christian culture". * A distinctive feature of the Western culture is its focus on science and technology, and its ability to generate new processes, materials and material artifacts. * Aside from food, literature, art, music, religion, and politics, many aspects of Western culture differ from other cultures around the world. Western culture has evolved and changed throughout the past centuries, but at the same time certain themes and trends persist to varying degrees: * An emphasis on technological innovation and science coupled with a belief in progress; * An emphasis on human rights, which are considered natural rights. * Personal freedom as an important value; * Expectation of personal responsibility; * A strong sense of personal privacy and civil rights; * Tolerance of a wide variety of subcultures, some of which have a strong collective or coercive ideology * A sense of personal honor and personal shame that rejects dutiful suicide and honor killings; * Consensus that personal enrichment of political office holders is an offense against society; * Allegiance to the nuclear family, rather than to the extended family. Go read the full article, and do a little googling if you are interested. FHky

losttreasure -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/11/2006 5:05:51 AM)
Quick reply: Just to head off any debate regarding the veracity of Wikipedia's articles... MSN Encarta The Encyclopedia Britannica The Columbia Encyclopedia

WhipTheHip -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/11/2006 5:36:08 AM)
The Lonely Planet is the definitive source on the very cheapest accomodations. You will not find any place anywhere in the world in the Lonely Planet for less than $5 per day. And you would be hard pressed to find a place that cheap. I traveled the world many years ago, and that included Thailand and China, and my travels experiences tell me you are off your rocker. I never heard of a hotel that didn't have electricity and running water, even in the back country of third world nations. Give me a break. Even hotels in Indian countryside have electricity and running water. If you stayed some place that didn't have electricity or running water it wasn't a hotel. Please go waste someone else's time. I claimed to have managed one of the lowest priced hotels on Earth. Benji disagreed and claimed there were hotels where you can rent a room for .25 cents a day. I maintain that is preposterous.

MzMinx -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/11/2006 6:55:20 AM)
hmmm I did say lodgeings .... not just hotels smiles ..... but once again .. try discussing with me rather than calling me names ... Hotel is such a broad word many peopel use it interchangeably for all sorts of types of accomadation try asking me to clarrify my thoughts .... seek to understand rather than attacking me But Lonely planet which you now quote says that you can do things for under your magical US $15 .... which you claimed before was the lowest limit .... but now you say its US $5? .... that is a big difference, in fact its 1/3 of your original claim of the lowest limit .... lots of hotels in india fall in between US $5 and US $15 as I shared before The lonely planet is not the definitive source of cheap travel.. it is a great guide book and a fabulous bunch of people who try really hard to get good info out to people.... but as they take 1 to 2 years to collect info then have it published for quite some time (only the books have details like lodgeings etc ) .... they strive to ensure a place will still be tradeing for several years rather than always be the cheapest ... as well as generally confirm to some minimum standards in what defines lodgeings .. they also dont usually give much details on home stays .. or small villages etc ... and in places like india they readily acknowldege they dont even come close to listing all the lodgeing places in even a medium sized town... its also actully quite well known that places can raise their rates or at least lower their services knowing they will get a minimum of hits from travelers because they are in the published books such as lonely planet or any of the other guide books ... Its always best to get up to the minute info from people who have just been where you want to go .. or find them in the cafes etc when you get there smiles I would agree with you though .. under US$5 is very very rare now adays ...but not impossable (which is all I was shareing) and I also agree, not much I personaly have found, would be classified as a hotel by most american definitions .. sheets and toilet paper etc are optional extras in many places in the world ....and laughs softly i got very used to actually checking that taps where conected and working , lights turned on and off, doors shut etc etc but I have been in paid lodgeings in some of the most amazing places in the world ... where they dont have hotels or where people have opened their homes or built spaces for travelers ... even you said you where staying in peoples houses ... an example of one I have stayed in that was under 50 rupees.. was in pushkar (where they have one of the famous camel fairs in india ) ... mud huts in a walled compound run by a fabulously weird hippy part Indian part english guy and his family just outside the main town .... they had electricity in the main house ( a two room thing), when it worked .... but all the cooking was done on a fire outside (which you payed extra for, about 10 rupees for a thali dinner ) .... and they delivered a bucket of water to the outside of each hut every morning .... I think they had about 10 huts .... with just plain dirt floors big enough to roll out your sleeping bag and such ..... it was amazing to wake up at dawn to the singing of the various groups of native tribes woman, who where there in their hundreds for the camel fair, as they walked past the compound, down to the wells for their water every morning, Hmmmm I actually found accomodation in china to be quite expensive comparatively to most of asia and compared to say the prices of food there or getting clothing tailered (I got the most beautiful high quality cashmere full length individually tailered coat for about US $50) .... I am sure it has to do with how prices are controlled there but no I am not a liar as you previously called me ... nor am I off my rocker ... but I have had some amazing travel adventures, way off the normaly traveled road.... and met some lovely people from all walks of life

Sinergy -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/11/2006 7:34:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Whip, You've posted the exact same post three times. Having a problem with your browser or just going for emphasis? FHky He's resisting the Kool Aid. FUTILE IS RESISTANCE! Sinergy

Sinergy -> RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films (9/11/2006 7:48:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania So there ya are. Gandhi is one of my heroes. He threw off the British but he couldn't unify his country. Hello A/all, I am a firm believer in the idea that people, in general, do not want to be unified. They do not want to think outside the box. They do not want to change the world they are presented with. This is why when the Soviet Union breaks up, you see people who have engaged in vicious cultural animosities immediately allow their hatreds and prejudices flare up. It is a classic example the worldview, "They are out to get me, so I need to get them first." From what I have studied and read and experienced in my life, I have come to the conclusion that for most people, hatred and prejudice are much easier and safer for them to express than love and compassion for others. It is easier to cling desperately to one's negative emotions than to go through the pain and introspection of thinking that perhaps that person's universe is not filled with hatred and terror and animosity and regret. Then one has to accept the responsibility that their world is the one they made for themself, including the flaws and warts. For myself, I firmly believe I have to do what I can in my life to make a positive change, through the oddly Taoist practice of achieving peaceful and non-violent graduates by teaching them full-contact self-defense, even if I do not believe I will be around should my efforts bear fruit. "I saved the Shire, Samwise Gamgee, just not for me." Frodo Baggins, The Lord Of The Rings But that is just me, and I could be wrong. Sinergy

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