RE: Should I of lied?

RE: Should I of lied? (Full Version)

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dayraven -> RE: Should I of lied? (9/10/2006 1:35:02 PM)
Try putting the bracelet out of sight, and when asked why you're not wearing it, say... "Oh...I AM wearing it..."

SirKenin -> RE: Should I of lied? (9/10/2006 1:38:40 PM)
Very interesting comments all the way around. Both pro and con. I am a little bit more awake now, so I will try and finish what I was getting at. If I may, I would like to give an example to illustrate My point. My wife went to Boston to see a Red Sox versus Seattle Mariners game. Boston is full of hardcore baseball fans. My wife is not really a baseball fan, but she knew Ken Griffey Jr. (from Seattle at the time). Well, needless to say she was cheering and yelling for Ken Griffey Jr. Well, the Boston fans went ballistic, yelling and screaming at her and telling her to go back to Seattle (she is a Quebecer). The point? Fangs had the right to not wear that bracelet. Just like My wife had the right to cheer on Ken Griffey Jr. He should not lie either. If he does, he is a coward. He has to stand up and accept his "fate". He now must accept the consequences of making his pathetic little stand, whether it costs him a promotion, a raise, friends, tension in the workplace, whatever the case might be. What I see too much of on this board is people that demand their rights. ME ME ME ME ME. It is all about ME. Yet they do not want to accept the consequences or responsibilities. Rosa Parks? hahahahaha. I did not even read that. I block her posts so I missed it entirely. That is funny as hell. Nice job.

SirKenin -> RE: Should I of lied? (9/10/2006 1:41:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Yeah, I know Tienanmen square was a ridiculous notion. I was on pain meds, can I recant it?! I think it was Me that rebuked you for it first. Ten spanks and you are allowed to go. Just do not do it again (ok, maybe once or twice.. There is something about spanking I really enjoy).

Lordandmaster -> RE: Should I of lied? (9/10/2006 2:58:37 PM)
Uh huh...it's also a felony to lie in court about why you fired someone. Look, there are two different things going on. If it's just a question of how Fangs is going to get along with co-workers in the future, all right--I'm sure even Fangs agrees that what he did could potentially jeopardize his relations at work. But if someone is going to make the claim that his employer can legally COMPEL him to wear that bracelet, I'm going to have to disagree. And I'll have the law on my side. quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania IF the employer gave that as a reason for firing him, he might have a case, but like Emperor said it is an invsible check box. It can cost people to take stands, like promotions for example... there is no law that anyone has to promote you.

Emperor1956 -> RE: Should I of lied? (9/10/2006 3:06:14 PM)
quote: LaM said: I disagree. If Fangs refused to wear the bracelet and his employer fired him for it, he'd have a case. You can disagree, LaM. Can you cite a legal case to prove your assertions? There is case law supporting my point. I cited three fact patterns of actual recent cases where compulsory participation/attendance by employees at charitable events as mandated by employers was allowed (in each case, an employee/plaintiff's suit was dismissed as unfounded). By the way, in the law we have a technical term for disagreeing with a proposition without proof. We call it "talking out of one's ass." E.

PlayfulOne -> RE: Should I of lied? (9/10/2006 3:13:46 PM)
LAM, I would never suggest he should be compelled to wear it, I wouldn't even say he should put it on if he doesn't want to. But, he is in an office full of women who, I am sure, have the cancer of their coworker on their mind. They are probably also feeling a little shaken and vunerable wondering if they should get checked. A little white lie of, "I can't wear latex it makes me itch and breakout" would have been better on their worried minds then "I don't wear pink", which leaves an office of coworkers now looking at him as shallow and uncaring. K

juliaoceania -> RE: Should I of lied? (9/10/2006 3:31:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Uh huh...it's also a felony to lie in court about why you fired someone. Look, there are two different things going on. If it's just a question of how Fangs is going to get along with co-workers in the future, all right--I'm sure even Fangs agrees that what he did could potentially jeopardize his relations at work. But if someone is going to make the claim that his employer can legally COMPEL him to wear that bracelet, I'm going to have to disagree. And I'll have the law on my side. quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania IF the employer gave that as a reason for firing him, he might have a case, but like Emperor said it is an invsible check box. It can cost people to take stands, like promotions for example... there is no law that anyone has to promote you. I know of one situation of where I used to work where someone was fired because they wore a serpent pendant necklace and the manager thought they might be a satan worshipper. She did not give that reason mind you, it was a new hire so she just told him "It wasn't working out".. it happens.

SirKenin -> RE: Should I of lied? (9/10/2006 3:42:22 PM)
There are all kinds of ways to get around employment Law. [;)]

LadyWhisper -> RE: Should I of lied? (9/10/2006 3:44:16 PM)
Wearing a bracelet isn't curing anything, now ask me and let me speak, then I shall tell you my support on such subject. Ask me what other ways may I show my support, but making me wear this pink braclet isn't helping anyone but the rep of the company. You did the right thing, no need making the company look good for the cause. You know what you support and what you don't. If they do not take the time to find out, then so be it then. The braclet will remain in the cubicle. Lady Whisper

Emperor1956 -> RE: Should I of lied? (9/10/2006 3:50:57 PM)
quote: playfulOne (K & m, I think, and who are generally so even keeled in their posts that I admire them, gumby and all: which leaves an office of coworkers now looking at him as shallow and uncaring. And isn't that EXACTLY what he wanted them to think? Lets call a spade a spade, folks. Most of us know that there are "get along, go along" moments in life where we swallow a bit. (Yes, there are those who do not accept any social conventions, do not ever modify their behavior to accomodate others, and live their lives by absolutes. We call these people psychopaths and usually execute them.) Most of us believe that accomodating another's needs doesn't make us a less powerful/Dominant/Toppy/manly (if you want to be manly)/in control...whatever. But a significant problem with people who are into WIIWD I've found over "twenty years in the lifestyle" (gratuitious use of term from another current thread) is that some here perceive accomodation/kindness as weakness. Just like as my girl has pointed out in other threads, some perceive cruelty as honesty. And Internet discourse, where there is little responsibility or likelihood of reprecussions, maximizes this attitude. Fangs was entirely honest, if a bit gratuitously cruel, in saying "I don't wear pink." He could have come up with 100 other ways to decline wearing the bracelet. He could have worn the bracelet, and only a fool would have thought that was somehow "lessening" to his person. Or he could have said and done nothing. But he chose to take a stand, and tell his "team" that he doesn't wear pink! So, there! If he's seen as shallow, cruel, uncaring: well...DUH! And if he isn't promoted, loses his job, or in 30 years wonders why he's still on the bottom rung (and I don't wish any of those on him, but it could happen) well...maybe it goes back to a pink bracelet. E.

juliaoceania -> RE: Should I of lied? (9/10/2006 4:01:53 PM)
That was my point in an earlier post on this thread, I have taken unpopular stands in the "real world" knowing full well I could suffer repercussions.. you have to decide on a case by case basis whether such a stand is worthwhile and be willing to pay the piper. Only Fang can answer if his situation was worth it or not....

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Should I of lied? (9/10/2006 4:55:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania That was my point in an earlier post on this thread, I have taken unpopular stands in the "real world" knowing full well I could suffer repercussions.. you have to decide on a case by case basis whether such a stand is worthwhile and be willing to pay the piper. Only Fang can answer if his situation was worth it or not.... I agree. I will also say that we should all be againt people having negative repercussions for making a personal choice on what causes they choose to support in the workplace. I think it's horrendous that it was brought to such a personal level of interaction in the FIRST place.

juliaoceania -> RE: Should I of lied? (9/10/2006 5:37:04 PM)
LA, I have brought candy into the workplace to sell for my child's fundraiser, I guess someone could think I was horrendous for such behavior, but at the same time they were free to choose to buy or not buy and feel resent toward me for bringing it in,.... we all do things like this on a daily basis, and I really do not feel that there is something intrinsically wrong with it. The workplace has people who socialize in it because they are human beings,... they are not robots... how we interact in that social atmosphere is an individual choice... what should be and what is are two different things.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Should I of lied? (9/10/2006 6:10:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Yeah, I know Tienanmen square was a ridiculous notion. I was on pain meds, can I recant it?! I think it was Me that rebuked you for it first. Ten spanks and you are allowed to go. Just do not do it again (ok, maybe once or twice.. There is something about spanking I really enjoy). Pffffft - - You don't get to spank me, silly. Besides, your ridicule of me was enough [;)]

PlayfulOne -> RE: Should I of lied? (9/10/2006 6:50:00 PM)
LA, I think you've wandered way off base on this. This is not some big battle over dictating workplace support over certain causes. These are a group of people who are concerned about the welfare of their coworker. I would wager that some of them are scared, they've checked to see if they should schedule an exam, they've checked themselves for lumpsand are just trying to do the best they can to handle things. Of course if he didn't want to wear it he shouldn't force himself, but he should also have thought of a betteer answer than the one he gave. There are always repercussions. The deal is he possibly now looks like an selfish shallow ass to several of his coworkers. The repercussions? If he needs help with something they may not be inclined to help unless they have too. They may treat him differently, and it can be unpleasent for people to work in an enviorment where people are cold to them. While it probably will not have a direct impact on his job there can be indirect ones. A promotion that comes down to him and another. Everything is equal except for the fact that his coworkers believe him to be an uncaring ass and have little if any respect for him. So who gets the edge? This is about the feelings and perceptions of the people involved, not some evil alien plan to dictate choices. K

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Should I of lied? (9/10/2006 6:54:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania LA, I have brought candy into the workplace to sell for my child's fundraiser, I guess someone could think I was horrendous for such behavior, but at the same time they were free to choose to buy or not buy and feel resent toward me for bringing it in,.... we all do things like this on a daily basis, and I really do not feel that there is something intrinsically wrong with it. The workplace has people who socialize in it because they are human beings,... they are not robots... how we interact in that social atmosphere is an individual choice... what should be and what is are two different things. Frankly I DO tend to get annoyed every mid September at the fundraiser parents because I don't have kids and don't on an annual or bi-annual basis consider my co-workers a banking source for their kids class pizza party. But that's neither here nor there. If you went up to people just because they worked there to let them know about it and then gave any sort of pressure to give support, I'd consider that inappropriate. If you went to the people you consider social friends who also happen to be in the workplace, I'd consider it gray area but generally acceptable. If you put it in a box in the breakroom, let people know of the option and didn't do anything except talk to people who had questions about it or wanted to order something, I'd consider that fine. It's the implied level of support and then coerced pressure to join in which is the problem.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Should I of lied? (9/10/2006 6:58:18 PM)
A. You didn't cite a pattern; you asserted one. B. You didn't cite a case, for that matter; you cited a "pattern" (which you asserted--see A, above). The most publicized relevant cases, incidentally, have to do with whether an employer can compel an employee to participate in a union. But, since you must already know that (see C, below), I don't have to tell you how those cases were resolved. C. I think it's cute the way you use that word "we" when you refer to "the law," as though you were one of a select few practitioners, but you can't really know what you're talking about, because if you did, you wouldn't pretend that employment law is the same in all places. D. If Fangs is fired for refusing to wear that bracelet, you can bet that same ass of yours that there will be lawyers lining up to take his case. You're under no obligation to take it yourself. Oh, and while I'm at it, E: How did I KNOW that Kenin was going to say something like "there are all kinds of ways around employment law"? quote: ORIGINAL: Emperor1956 quote: LaM said: I disagree. If Fangs refused to wear the bracelet and his employer fired him for it, he'd have a case. You can disagree, LaM. Can you cite a legal case to prove your assertions? There is case law supporting my point. I cited three fact patterns of actual recent cases where compulsory participation/attendance by employees at charitable events as mandated by employers was allowed (in each case, an employee/plaintiff's suit was dismissed as unfounded). By the way, in the law we have a technical term for disagreeing with a proposition without proof. We call it "talking out of one's ass."

juliaoceania -> RE: Should I of lied? (9/10/2006 6:58:19 PM)
Well I am not a pressure sorta person, it was left in the breakroom...lol

Lordandmaster -> RE: Should I of lied? (9/10/2006 6:59:26 PM)
I don't disagree. The statement I was responding to was the assertion that his employer could legally compel him to wear the bracelet. quote: ORIGINAL: PlayfulOne I would never suggest he should be compelled to wear it, I wouldn't even say he should put it on if he doesn't want to. But, he is in an office full of women who, I am sure, have the cancer of their coworker on their mind. They are probably also feeling a little shaken and vunerable wondering if they should get checked. A little white lie of, "I can't wear latex it makes me itch and breakout" would have been better on their worried minds then "I don't wear pink", which leaves an office of coworkers now looking at him as shallow and uncaring.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Should I of lied? (9/10/2006 7:32:08 PM)
IMO it depends on HOW he said it. I took in the tone of voice as slightly humorous "that's a rude question, but not worth the trouble so I'll keep the situation light and move on so neither of us have to expose ourselves as embarassed" way. If he said in a tone of "You're an idiot and I don't need to explain myself" snide sort of way, then yes, that's just asking for trouble. If given in the right tone, I think the answer was dead on to be able to avoid a sensitive issue without leaving room for resentment in the future.

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