Consent and Submission (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> Consent and Submission (9/9/2006 12:00:08 PM)

I was reading another thread about someone feeling disrespected by being coerced into wearing a bracelet to show support for breast cancer. It made me think of how I react when someone expects me to do something I haven't consented to, I tend to resent it.

I have a real affection for those whom I have willingly given authority to. I am not just needlessly rebellious. I respected my professors and many of my bosses in my life. There are a few I did not respect and this tended to make me feel rebellious towards them. I did not feel like I was consenting to their authority, and that felt forced and I did not like it.

I was wondering if other submissives have this resentment of submitting to authority they do not respect, or is it easy for you to go along with it? If you do you feel like it matters if you respect their authority? Does your submissive nature extend to anyone with a 'title'? Do you try to please those you respect more than those you do not? Are you rebellious when it comes to respecting authority of someone whom others expect you to submit to? (school, work or other type of social structure).



KarbonCopy -> RE: Consent and Submission (9/9/2006 1:47:48 PM)

We could be kin.

I give nobody the benefit of the doubt when it comes to respect.
Though I do no just jump on them and act disrespectful to them off the hop, but I do expect a person to earn my respect.
My submission is exactly the same. A person MUST earn my submission, its not given freely.




ownedgirlie -> RE: Consent and Submission (9/9/2006 2:33:48 PM)

Interesting question, Julia.  I try to do what is right, according to my sense of ethics, morals, values, principles...etc. 

I can only answer your question as it relates to pleasing those who are not my Master, as my dynamic with him is obviously different than with others, and I consent to all he requires of me.

As it pertains to a boss at work, or a professor in school, I have never just "gone with the flow" for the purpose of being included, or pleasing, or accepted. If it doesn't feel right, I question it.  I try to be respectful in my questioning, but perhaps I am more so these days than I used to be.  One boss I had, a vice president, once told me, "You know, you really piss me off sometimes, but you make me think, and I love that!"  She said what she respected about me was my consistency, and because of this, she understood where I was coming from, when I questioned her motives (ie; arguing her decision to not pay an employee's $3000 expense report because the form was not completed correctly).  I have left a job before, which I had for 7 years, because the new CEO I was working for was corrupt and too unethical for my blood.  We did not get along well because I refused to do his dirty bidding, and when called upon by legal counsel to report what I knew, I contacted the CEO of our parent company to talk to him about the matter, and to get his blessing before talking to the lawyer.

I wouldn't say this was rebellious, rather standing for what I believed in.  If we can not do that, then we are lacking, in my opinion. 

This is not to say there has never been a time when I did go with the flow just to keep the peace.  Each time I did, I felt ugly inside, depending on the nature of the activity.  If it's a matter of a bunch of people wanting to go to a restaurant I hate for dinner, I'm likely to just go along with it without much care.  My reaction to a conflict really depends on the situation.  I can adapt to most situations, but if it feels bad, then I will speak up.



juliaoceania -> RE: Consent and Submission (9/9/2006 2:52:50 PM)

It was astute to note I was not talking about D/s at all, but vanilla things. I have given my submission to my Daddy willingly and joyfully, it makes little sense to resent that.

I have a rebellious streak, but not to those I have given my consent to lead me. I have went along to get along, and felt dirty about it too. I guess what I am saying is that there has to be some sort of implicit agreement for me to follow direction, or I am not going to do it.

Part of this attitude came out when I was negotiating with Daddy about our dynamic, I have a really hard time thinking about another dominant bossing me around and ordering me about. It was important that this be discussed prior to consumating a dynamic. I do not want someone barking orders at me to get them something... I have not agreed to submit to anyone but Daddy. He told me that he would not expect me to follow random orders from someone just because they labeled themselves a dominant and I self identify as a submissive. This is not to say I would not serve his friends at a party or other get-together, it just means that I do not submit authority over myself to anyone but him unless it is my career.




Littlepita -> RE: Consent and Submission (9/9/2006 3:02:12 PM)

I have will rebel against authority when it's not respected. That goes back to my father who demanded to be obeyed yet did nothing to earn respect. I have seen it in bosses and others many times over the years. I am naturally submissive and a people pleaser. I have gotten a much tougher skin over the years and just recently even sent my father a long letter clearing up some things I had sat on for much to long. Needless to say he is speaking to me right now. [&:]

I do submit to my Dom and find it easy for the most part to yield to his authority. That is because I respect him totally. He shows me respect and we take great care in negotiating the big stuff in our lives.



ownedgirlie -> RE: Consent and Submission (9/9/2006 3:03:52 PM)

Julia what you said reminded me of a trait I used to have.  It's been so long I nearly forgot.  But when I first met  Master, I was a very confused individual, and I did believe that a submissive should adhere to the wisdom of any dominant...simply because. In doing so, I had been led down some rather destructive paths, and when Master found me, he encountered a girl with a broken spirit.   It was my Master who taught me away from that kind of thinking.  He taught me much the same as you were told - I submit only to him.  If he wishes me to serve another, then I will, but ultimately I am submitting to him (Master) in doing so, as I am doing his will.

This is not to say I would not seriously consider and heed the advice of a trusted dominant friend.  But I would not submit, nor experience feelings of submission to him (or her), unless instructed to by my Master (and even then it would ultimately be a demonstration of submitting to my Master, as I would be following his order).  I have at times encountered dominants who attempted to instruct me at something, or order something of me.  I found myself feeling somewhat offended by that - I was offended that they believed they had a right to what belonged to my Master.  Now I am not so bothered when it occurs.  I know some slaves are instructed to obey any dominant being.  I am simply not one of those slaves.



juliaoceania -> RE: Consent and Submission (9/9/2006 3:08:11 PM)

I am to tell him that someone has ordered me about...smiles. This would mostly happen at another person's party or dungeon. If we have a party it is my job to make sure everyone is comfortable of course. I cannot imagine Daddy having friends that barked orders at me...lol. He is very polite to everyone and I cannot imagine one of his friends disrespecting what is his, he won't even let anyone smoke in his car...lol



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Consent and Submission (9/9/2006 3:59:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I was wondering if other submissives have this resentment of submitting to authority they do not respect, or is it easy for you to go along with it?

I'm pretty sensitive to it.  If it goes beyond basic manners or given consent, it's very irksome for me.

quote:

 If you do you feel like it matters if you respect their authority? Does your submissive nature extend to anyone with a 'title'?

Nope, not in a Ds realm anyway.  If I'm at a meeting, I abide by the chari's rules of order.  If I'm running a meeting, I expect the members to do the same. 

quote:

 Do you try to please those you respect more than those you do not?

I'm sure on some levels I do, but my basic manners and respect are based on MY sense of responsibility- they are not so easily tossed aside just because someone ELSE forgets them.

quote:

Are you rebellious when it comes to respecting authority of someone whom others expect you to submit to? (school, work or other type of social structure).

I should have been :)

In certain circumstances it is better to just go with someone being a dork and in others it is better to not.  It's rarely ever necessary to forget one's own manners or provide confrontation however, though many people resort to this at the first opportunity.



TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Consent and Submission (9/9/2006 4:19:07 PM)

Sometimes people go with the flow sometimes thay dont..I always think of my mother and her fav saying..."Pick your battles"..Tempting



juliaoceania -> RE: Consent and Submission (9/9/2006 4:24:21 PM)

Question is this, is it harder to pick the battles when one has a submissive nature?

I was with someone for three years in my 20s that would constantly say "People mistake your kindness for weakness", I would not be surprised if this happens to many submissives.



behindmirrors -> RE: Consent and Submission (9/9/2006 4:28:57 PM)

Respect from me is earned, and can be lost. I do not submit to those I do not respect, and I only submit to one. I respect far more people than just my Dom, but that doesn't mean they have my submission. That means that I feel the person is deserving of my respect. There is no more than that for me, and I would not do anything believing at the beginning I would resent submitting myself to do it.
behindmirrors.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Consent and Submission (9/9/2006 4:35:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Question is this, is it harder to pick the battles when one has a submissive nature?

By nature do you mean orientation or personality?

Personality- more likely yes.

Orientation- no.



TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Consent and Submission (9/9/2006 4:49:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Question is this, is it harder to pick the battles when one has a submissive nature?

I was with someone for three years in my 20s that would constantly say "People mistake your kindness for weakness", I would not be surprised if this happens to many submissives.
IMO no ..my nature has nothing to do with it...however, the importance of the battle does have everything to do with it..Tempting



juliaoceania -> RE: Consent and Submission (9/9/2006 4:54:04 PM)

If you do what someone orders you to do you are submitting to their authority and acknowledging that authority, it does not make you their submissive



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