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SubmitAndBeLoved -> Article on Power and Relationships (1/8/2005 10:41:49 AM)

From http://www.angryharry.com/index2.html
====================================

Harry

Could you please explain what exactly you mean about finding women with less power. I kind of understand but then again I kind of do not understand. I always thought that oftentimes, women with less power are the most dangerous because they crave to gain the power and one way to do that is to falsely accuse you of things, etc.

S

Hi S

When I was a teenager (mid to late 1960s) one of the things that my mother used to tell me was this. "Never marry a woman who is richer than you, because she will be holding all the cards."

Her point, of course, was that when it came to family and relationships in those days, the man's financial position was about the only thing that he had going for him. And without a good position, he would always be at the woman's mercy. She would rule the house and the children (i.e. the most important elements of a family) and if she also had more money than him, then what, exactly, did he have to offer her?

Nothing!

And with nothing to offer, it would not take long before the relationship deteriorated.

And she would rule it!

These days, however, the converse is surely true. If my mother was still alive, she would probably say, "Never marry a woman who is significantly POORER than you, because she will be holding all the cards."

LOL!

How times have changed, eh?

However, my point about having more 'power' really refers mostly to psychological power - as it applies in all sorts of areas. And I don't mean 'power' as in having the power to mistreat somebody and get away with it.

For example, if you are feeling ill, does she **really** care. Does it really upset her to see you unwell?

If you stub your toe does she laugh, or does she do her best to make you feel better?

If the latter, then you have 'power'.

Do you both go out to work, and does she, therefore, rely on you to do A, B and C. And does she genuinely **appreciate** the fact that you do A, B and C?

If she does, then you have 'power'.

Does she orgasm wildly when you are having sex?

If so, then you have power.

Do you find it relatively easy to persuade her to your point of view?

If so, then you have power.

How much of your state of emotional well-being depends on her attitude towards you? Do you have other interests, other friends, or is she your sole provider of emotional happiness?

Such things relate to your power vis-a vis the relationship.

There are zillions of factors that can be assessed to see how the power cookie crumbles.

And my point about power refers to these kinds of things.

And, loosely speaking, the more power that you have the less likely are things to go against you.

And then, as time goes by, if things go well, then you get to know each other so well, and you rely on each other so much, that you become so important to each other that you could barely live without each other.

But it is almost impossible to know in advance whether or not this is going to happen. It takes YEARS to achieve this happy state of affairs - probably at least a decade these days given the huge forces currently being mustered by various powerful groups to undermine relationships.

And while this long process is taking place it is very important to monitor it closely. If you remain blind to all these fine details - and, perhaps, spend your time thinking about sports, work, and other things instead of about 'the relationship' - you are setting yourself up for a possible shock.

In summary, therefore, in order to protect yourself, you need to keep your eye closely on 'the relationship', risk only what you can afford to lose, and keep checking to see that you have enough power within it.

What is the point of even being with women if it is always a game?

Well. You probably wouldn't say that about bringing up children. And yet the same kind of issues apply. You manipulate things so that the children do well and are stable and happy.

Indeed, most parents are always scheming up ways to make their children happier. But they wouldn't call it a 'game'.

And I would argue that in much the same way that you would wheel and deal in order to manipulate matters for the well-being of the children, so you should do the same when it comes to your relationship with a woman that you love.

But I think that I understand your point. You are suggesting that if you have to monitor and manipulate consciously the progress of a relationship then, somehow, you are cheating and devaluing it.

WRONG!

The truth is that the more effort that you put into something, the better does it develop - because you steer it that way - and the more do you actually end up appreciating and valuing it.

Furthermore, be aware that - whether you like it or not - women will be doing exactly these things (consciously monitoring, testing and manipulating the relationship). They are very attuned to relationship matters.

Once you let a woman know that you love her to death, it seems that it is all over. What a sad state of affairs, and a psychotic one at that.

I think that you are right.

If you love your woman to death then she can easily become complacent and contemptuous.

And, of course, you become taken for granted.

But there is a way round this.

The fact of the matter is that (within limits) the greater is the INTENSITY of the interactions that take place between the two of you, the more do you bond emotionally to each other.

INTENSITY X FREQUENCY = BONDING

Conversely, if the interactions are few and of low intensity (e.g. watching the TV all evening together in relative silence) then the bonding is somewhat diminished.

Unsurprisingly.

It is only when you are truly settled together that you can really afford to sit in front of the TV every evening with the woman you love.

And so the question of how you can increase both the intensity and the frequency of the interactions that take place between you and your (newish) partner is a very important one - particularly if you love her and you do not want her to become complacent.

But the interesting thing is that the QUALITY of the interactions (within limits) seems to be neither here nor there. And this is why, for example, couples who fight and argue a great deal - often involving domestic violence - often seem to become extremely attached to each other.

And if you bear in mind that the QUALITY of the interactions is relatively unimportant it should not be too difficult to maintain interactions of high intensity and of high frequency without pandering to her every whim, and so making her complacent.

Putting this all rather bluntly, you can afford to give her a hard time on occasion and yet still increase her bonding to you.

Further, it is also important not to be bamboozled too much by 'the media'. Most ****successful**** relationships are pretty mundane and 'boring'. But the focus of the media is on the unusual and the exhilarating, and the impression is given that everyone is having a great time.

This is wholesale nonsense.

And, in my view, another good idea is to refuse to engage in any relationship with a woman who insists on absorbing through the media all the misandric BS that is forever being produced.

If she watches Oprah, find someone else! - or give her such a hard time over it that she stops watching such things.

If my missus started watching Oprah, I'd sign up to the Playboy Channel.

After all, what is sauce for the goose!

"If you are going to get your kicks from absorbing other people's emotional stuff and polluting our relationship with it then I'll get my kicks from their sexual stuff."

Yes indeed, There are many aspects to balancing the 'power' in relationships!

And they need to be monitored closely.

And since I seem to be on a pontificatory ramble at the moment - LOL! - here are a few others things that I would recommend.

1. Make it clear from the outset that you are the boss. By doing this you will only attract women who like it this way.

And most of them do, in fact, like it this way.

The feminist claptrap flooding the western media is bogus.

2. Never invest your everything in anyone. Always make sure that there are many avenues (and/or many people) through which your life gains meaning, stability and happiness.

3. Try never to allow your gonads to rule your head. They have a very powerful and disarming influence on men and this influence is best curtailed. Furthermore, curtailing this influence is very satisfying and liberating; rather like giving up cocaine!

Indeed, a diminishing sexual drive as one gets older is a plus, not a minus.

4. Avoid falling for women who seem to desire forever being pandered to. They have very lofty opinions of themselves. And they are particularly dangerous in this day and age.

However, if you happen to like 'weak' women then instead of pandering to them, boss them about.

If they do not like this and protest enough to block your bossy efforts, then they are not 'weak'.

They are deceiving you.

If they love it, keep it up.

If they do not seem to appreciate much in the way of interaction, the chances are that the relationship is doomed.

Remember: INTENSITY X FREQUENCY = BONDING

5. Men and women are not the same. The chances are that you will be more attached to her than she is to you. And if she has children, you will always come below them in her list of priorities.

Never forget this.

6. Don't make the mistake of thinking that you are going to find a woman who thinks the world of you.

This is extremely unlikely to happen.

Except, perhaps, temporarily.

A little more pragmatism is required!

7. Choose a woman who is as wealthy as you, or wealthier. Don't make the mistake of falling for the alluring and seductive charms of a woman who has comparatively little.

The greater the financial disparity, the longer should be the courtship period so that you can better determine her true feelings.

8. If you discover that your woman lies or exaggerates a great deal then get the hell out.

You have no hope.

None!

The same goes for histrionics.

Get the hell out before your life is completely ruined - no matter how emotionally attached you are.

Out. Out. Out.

No ifs.

No buts.

GET OUT.

9. On the whole, the more that a woman seems to put up with your more heinous of ways, the more is she attached to you.

So. Take notice of how much 'aggravation' from you she will endure before she starts complaining, protesting, slamming doors, whatever.

Assess the matter carefully.

As I said earlier, keep monitoring the situation - and consider the whole relationship, not just the isolated incidents.

And adjust yourself accordingly.

Forward planning!

In summary: If you remain ***constantly*** alert over matters to do with 'a relationship', while at the same time ***constantly*** adjusting to them, nothing is likely to get too far out of hand.

You will maintain a reasonable amount of 'power' over the situation.

HOWEVER.

IN PRACTICE.

Thanks to the various shenanigans of the vindictive emotionally-retarded feminists and the battalions of self-serving nincompoops found working in the various sections of the gargantuan abuse industry, it is exceedingly difficult for men these days to achieve some kind of balance of power within their relationships.

And this is why they must attempt to do this through psychology and forward planning.

As such, they need to be much tougher on their women and much more wary of them than they would otherwise have needed to be - which is why domestic violence is on the increase.

But, of course, there is something else that you can do to empower yourself when it comes to your relationships.

And this it to understand what is going on out there with regard to those self-serving organisms that feed like vultures off the broken and unstable relationships that they themselves are purposely creating.

By doing this, and by explaining to others close to you (and to her) what is going on out there, you end up protecting yourself to some degree.

Some women, for example, are quite shocked to discover how prejudicial are the relationship laws against men, and they can often begin to appreciate far more the meaning of any 'risks' that you might be taking for the benefit of the relationship; i.e. you might get more brownie points from them.

Indeed, you should demand these extra points when it comes to balancing any of the emotional accounts of the relationship.

For example, "My dear Woman, the very fact that we live together demonstrates just how highly I must think of you given the risks that I am taking. The converse, however, is not true. You are not taking any risks at all. As such, I want more!"

Finally, while it is clearly wonderful to have a close, secure, satisfying, intimate, interesting, sexual, lifelong, monogamous relationship with someone of the opposite gender, this is not very easy to achieve.

Indeed, **every** 'single' adult that you will **ever** meet has failed to find such a wonderful relationship and/or has failed to maintain it.

***All*** of their past relationships have failed in this respect.

***ALL*** OF THEM!

And even those who do have relationships - perhaps even married - are not necessarily having a great time with them.

And so my point is that you should not despair too much and believe that most of the people out there are having great intimate relationships.

They are not.

And such relationships are often not as good as they are portrayed to be. They often involve a great deal of sacrifice and aggravation. And even after all this, they often simply deteriorate.

And so, given that there are many other things in life, it is probably best never to dwell glumly for too long on the absence of a great monogamous relationship with one woman.

The most important factors governing the levels of people's health and happiness are having good friends, companions, loved ones (e.g. siblings, past girlfriends, children and, of course wives) and keen interests.

And so if you cannot find a 'wife', there are plenty of other ways to be happy.

Well. That's my view!

Harry





MizSuz -> RE: Article on Power and Relationships (1/8/2005 11:12:04 AM)


I do believe that is, without question, the most bullshit I have ever exposed myself to in one sitting.

Hope it works for you and good luck to you with it. As for me, I'll continue to have relationships based in honesty with as little manipulative connivings as possible.

I just can't respect a person who thinks that manipulation is the way to achieve interpersonal goals. But then, I do think on occasion (but only when it's absolutely necessary <eye roll>).




onceburned -> RE: Article on Power and Relationships (1/8/2005 11:29:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: From http://www.angryharry.com/index2.html

9. On the whole, the more that a woman seems to put up with your more heinous of ways, the more is she attached to you.

So. Take notice of how much 'aggravation' from you she will endure before she starts complaining, protesting, slamming doors, whatever.

Assess the matter carefully.

As I said earlier, keep monitoring the situation - and consider the whole relationship, not just the isolated incidents.

And adjust yourself accordingly.


This does explain the behavior of some men I know. (shakes head) So I guess thanks are in order for the insight.




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Article on Power and Relationships (1/8/2005 11:45:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz


I do believe that is, without question, the most bullshit I have ever exposed myself to in one sitting.

Hope it works for you and good luck to you with it. As for me, I'll continue to have relationships based in honesty with as little manipulative connivings as possible.

I just can't respect a person who thinks that manipulation is the way to achieve interpersonal goals. But then, I do think on occasion (but only when it's absolutely necessary <eye roll>).


Amen MizSuz, I could not agree more on the magnitude of the BS here.
I had read a few of his prior ?Humorous postings in the Humor section, found them to be terribly similar to what I'd consider misogyny (and I have a sense of humor about both sexes), but never wanted to comment; I figured, if most people found them funny, than it's me, I'll just skip his posts from here on, read other posts. M




RiotGirl -> RE: Article on Power and Relationships (1/8/2005 1:38:04 PM)

Access Denied




MizSuz -> RE: Article on Power and Relationships (1/8/2005 1:52:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: onceburned

quote:

ORIGINAL: From http://www.angryharry.com/index2.html

9. On the whole, the more that a woman seems to put up with your more heinous of ways, the more is she attached to you.

So. Take notice of how much 'aggravation' from you she will endure before she starts complaining, protesting, slamming doors, whatever.

Assess the matter carefully.

As I said earlier, keep monitoring the situation - and consider the whole relationship, not just the isolated incidents.

And adjust yourself accordingly.


This does explain the behavior of some men I know. (shakes head) So I guess thanks are in order for the insight.



HAhaha I likened that particular passage to a child seeing just how many times s/he can touch something before the "NO" turned into a smack on the hand.

I was only willing to raise the one I gave birth to. I know it's a rather selfish and egocentric position, but it's mine.




happypervert -> RE: Article on Power and Relationships (1/8/2005 2:34:40 PM)

I would like to thank MizSuz for subjecting herself to that article. After seeing that it came from such a "respected" source as angryharry.com, I figured it might be more efficient to just skip it and see what the reviewers had to say.

I can only assume that the original poster must agree with it; otherwise he would have had enough sense to include a comment or disclaimer along with it.




DaddyAngel -> RE: Article on Power and Relationships (1/8/2005 2:51:22 PM)

I wouldn't date him. (Not that I date men anyway, honestly, they are too easy, women are more of a challenge.) What an idiot. Just because it is true, doesn't mean you have to point it out in such an idiotic way.

Reality is, relationships have an imbalance of power. Failure to recognize this makes it harder to appreciate ones position within it. Ability to point out where one has power and does not have power gives you the opportunity to redress the imbalance to a degree if your partner recognizes the same injustice in it that you do. If that doesn't work, manipulation can make it appear to work for a time, but ultimately will ruin the relationship. Why waste your time and energy?

Personally, I prefer to be appreciative of my partner, give them as much opportunity for power as I can, and expect the same from them. Even a slave has power... if they are good at what they do. The rest have the power to walk away.




mistoferin -> RE: Article on Power and Relationships (1/8/2005 2:59:36 PM)

I might actually address this post...........once I stop vomiting that is.




MizSuz -> RE: Article on Power and Relationships (1/8/2005 3:36:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

I would like to thank MizSuz for subjecting herself to that article. After seeing that it came from such a "respected" source as angryharry.com, I figured it might be more efficient to just skip it and see what the reviewers had to say.

I can only assume that the original poster must agree with it; otherwise he would have had enough sense to include a comment or disclaimer along with it.



You're quite welcome. I'm not familiar with that site, so I wasn't prepared. Since he's a new member I thought it sporting of me to read it all.

Now I'm forewarned! hahahaha




proudsub -> RE: Article on Power and Relationships (1/8/2005 4:25:13 PM)

quote:

Since he's a new member I thought it sporting of me to read it all.


I gave up halfway through, didn't want to spend my time on it.




MizSuz -> RE: Article on Power and Relationships (1/8/2005 4:45:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

quote:

Since he's a new member I thought it sporting of me to read it all.


I gave up halfway through, didn't want to spend my time on it.




Then please allow me to give you the reader's condensed version.

Harry has a little dick.






stef -> RE: Article on Power and Relationships (1/8/2005 4:46:21 PM)

Priceless!

~stef




onceburned -> RE: Article on Power and Relationships (1/8/2005 4:47:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

I was only willing to raise the one I gave birth to. I know it's a rather selfish and egocentric position, but it's mine.


LOL
Yes, the whole article does have kind of a weasely adolescent flavor to it. Ah, the teen years...




RealityFix -> RE: Article on Power and Relationships (1/8/2005 4:48:54 PM)

To the origional poster.....

Seek therapy.

Nuerotic thinking and parnoia CAN be cured,in time.




MizSuz -> RE: Article on Power and Relationships (1/8/2005 4:54:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sfgrrl

Priceless!



So glad to return the favor of smiles. [;)]




MizSuz -> RE: Article on Power and Relationships (1/8/2005 5:09:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

Amen MizSuz, I could not agree more on the magnitude of the BS here.
I had read a few of his prior ?Humorous postings in the Humor section, found them to be terribly similar to what I'd consider misogyny (and I have a sense of humor about both sexes), but never wanted to comment; I figured, if most people found them funny, than it's me, I'll just skip his posts from here on, read other posts.



M:

Please feel free to call me Suz if it's convenient for you to remember. <smile> Unless you prefer to stand on ceremony (who am I to dictate your preference in that regard?)

I haven't frequented the humor section very often so I can't speak to those posts. Frankly, it doesn't sound like I'd be interested in them, but I may pop in there sometime if I get bored. I have noted your posts and I can't say that I think of you as not having a sense of humor. In fact I've enjoyed a number of your posts and rebuttals and look forward to your coming contributions and perspective.

No...I don't think I'll be doing any "Harry seeking" anytime soon. I suppose I'm glad he's there for those that like it.




merrymasochist -> RE: Article on Power and Relationships (1/8/2005 5:52:43 PM)

~laughing all over~
quite a virulent reply, but given the source is from an "angryharry," the tone is to be expected...

actually, most of the 9 points have a lot of common sense in them if the attitude and gender specification is dropped....

quote:

1. Make it clear from the outset that you are the boss. By doing this you will only attract women who like it this way.

1. be honest about who, how and what you are... presenting a false or exaggerated persona will only lead to attracting the wrong one for you...

quote:

2. Never invest your everything in anyone. Always make sure that there are many avenues (and/or many people) through which your life gains meaning, stability and happiness.

2. be self-supporting in your own happiness and interests... while making someone your be-all-end-all is lovely, it's a healthy thing to have outside interests that bring you happiness and expand your world...

quote:

3. Try never to allow your gonads to rule your head. They have a very powerful and disarming influence on men and this influence is best curtailed. Furthermore, curtailing this influence is very satisfying and liberating; rather like giving up cocaine!

3. lust is wonderful, lust is great, but lust only makes up a part of a relationship and we all have to leave the bedroom eventually... just because someone sets your passions racing doesn't necessarily mean they are the right person for you in the long term....


quote:

4. Avoid falling for women who seem to desire forever being pandered to. They have very lofty opinions of themselves. And they are particularly dangerous in this day and age.

4. constant self-serving selfishness without thought to anyone else is not attractive in anyone and can be wearying to live with in a short amount of time... i think most of us have run into god's gift to man/woman at one time or another and thought an exchange policy would be in order [:)]....

quote:

5. Men and women are not the same. The chances are that you will be more attached to her than she is to you. And if she has children, you will always come below them in her list of priorities.

5. of course men and women are not the same... viva la difference! the matter of attachment varies from relationship to relationship with the ideal being both are equally attached... as for children, perpetuation of the species demands they take priority to a certain extent but balance can be achieved.... if children are unacceptable then seek someone without them...

quote:

6. Don't make the mistake of thinking that you are going to find a woman who thinks the world of you.

6. okay... no redeeming interpretation of this bit of cynicism and speaks a wealth about the writer's past experiences... but it could hold the backhanded wisdom of giving each new relationship a fresh start and trying not to let previous baggage diminish expectations or sink it from the git-go...

quote:

7. Choose a woman who is as wealthy as you, or wealthier. Don't make the mistake of falling for the alluring and seductive charms of a woman who has comparatively little.

7. matters of finance are ever a sticky wicket... if someone's financial situation is in a constant and consistant state of nightmare then chances are they will make yours a nightmare also... financial disparity holds only as much importance as an individual deems it to have... gold digging can happen on both sides...

quote:

8. If you discover that your woman lies or exaggerates a great deal then get the hell out.

8. this one stands... man or woman, lies and dishonesty ruin relationships more often than anything... with lies there can be no trust, without trust there's no relationship and no happy ending...

quote:

9. On the whole, the more that a woman seems to put up with your more heinous of ways, the more is she attached to you.

9. this rule can fall in line with accepting a person for who they are, as they are... going into a relationship with the desire to "change" the other almost always ends up being a disaster... it also can be kept in mind that many of those "cute" idiosyncrasies that we find so endearing early on in a realtionship will be the very same habits that will annoy us to distraction later...

poor harry's got a lot of angst in him but his rules are not so far off the mark as they seem at first reading...

thank you for posting this SubmitAndBeLoved... it gave me a lot to think through...

sincerely,
merry




1RottenJohnny -> RE: Article on Power and Relationships (1/8/2005 5:58:15 PM)

Dear Harry,
Please throw yourself from the top of the f***ing Sears Tower. Step in front of a train, a bus, a beer truck. Anything. Just please remove yourself from the genetic pool. I'd put my boot in your ass but your head's in the way!

Sincerely,
Me

OK. I was so pissed I used a four-letter word so I came back and fixed it (sorta) to avoid being reprimanded.




MizSuz -> RE: Article on Power and Relationships (1/8/2005 6:11:53 PM)


HA! merry I can certainly see how you would laugh, and I applaud your ability to "see the bright side." It occurred to me to make a statement that it was Harry's explanations that killed his arguments (sort of a case of "he would have made his point if he'd only shut up") but I just can't bring myself to go back through the diatribe.

So for now I will chuckle with you but maintain the position that I really don't find the cost/benefit of reading Harry's prose to be "in favor."


[:D]




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