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RE: Oh what shlock - 9/12/2006 6:15:14 AM   
pinkee


Posts: 487
Status: offline 		well, i like CrappyDom and SirKenin, and think there's nothing whatsoever that could do 9/11 justice.  pinkee

(in reply to peterK50)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Oh what shlock - 9/12/2006 6:45:13 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: peterK50

Please don't anyone get too hung up on the 9/11 Commission report. It is a political diccument not a gospel. Who was called, what questions were asked, what was include in the report was all done politically. Bush & Cheney were questioned in private & not under oath. Debating it is a waste of time.


That can be said of any document link etc that anyone can post.  But the commission was made up of 5 dems and 5 reps so it is probably the most unbiased thing out there.

(in reply to peterK50)
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RE: Oh what shlock - 9/12/2006 8:45:20 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: peterK50

Please don't anyone get too hung up on the 9/11 Commission report. It is a political diccument not a gospel. Who was called, what questions were asked, what was include in the report was all done politically. Bush & Cheney were questioned in private & not under oath. Debating it is a waste of time.


That can be said of any document link etc that anyone can post.  But the commission was made up of 5 dems and 5 reps so it is probably the most unbiased thing out there.

I would not trust a single sentence in that report even if that sentence was chained to the wall. Even more important are the sentences that are not in the report. Ever hear of a whitewash? This report is a whitewash.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Oh what shlock - 9/12/2006 9:10:34 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		"You have a lot to say for someone who does not reside in our country."

given that the attack on the WTC killed more than just Americans, why do you think that only Americans can comment on it? i live in the UK.......i have lived near London in the past and way back in the day saw the aftermath of IRA bombs.........however, i have never tried to argue that i can learn nothing from people who don't live in the UK about terrorism, whether Islamic, Catholic, Protestent, Jewish or state sponsored. All perspectives are valid and sometimes the outsider sees best. If we forget that we run the risk of parochialism.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Oh what shlock - 9/12/2006 9:13:25 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: peterK50

Please don't anyone get too hung up on the 9/11 Commission report. It is a political diccument not a gospel. Who was called, what questions were asked, what was include in the report was all done politically. Bush & Cheney were questioned in private & not under oath. Debating it is a waste of time.


That can be said of any document link etc that anyone can post.  But the commission was made up of 5 dems and 5 reps so it is probably the most unbiased thing out there.

I would not trust a single sentence in that report even if that sentence was chained to the wall. Even more important are the sentences that are not in the report. Ever hear of a whitewash? This report is a whitewash.


Could be.   After all it was presented by politicians  LOL

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Oh what shlock - 9/12/2006 11:41:52 AM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Kendky,

The reason politicians whitewash things is because the public doesn't want and can't deal with reality.  I don't blame politicians, I blame a public to content to remain ignorant, too fearful of making hard choices, to concerned about themselves rather than the greater good.

The 9/11 report is imperfect but it is the best thing we have and is certainly worth discussing.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Oh what shlock - 9/12/2006 11:47:27 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Kendky,

The reason politicians whitewash things is because the public doesn't want and can't deal with reality.  I don't blame politicians, I blame a public to content to remain ignorant, too fearful of making hard choices, to concerned about themselves rather than the greater good.

The 9/11 report is imperfect but it is the best thing we have and is certainly worth discussing.


A perfect report would contain every document ever produced, transcripts of every word spoken, and every foot of film ever produced and not have any conclusions (because conclusiions are opinions).

I agree it is the best we got and definately debatable

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Oh what shlock - 9/12/2006 6:30:43 PM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrongButKind

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyJulieAnn
You have a lot to say for someone who does not reside in our country.


You have dark hair for someone with ten fingers.


I was sitting there counting her fingers and it looked to me that she might be misssing her pinky on hr right hand.   but she does have a nice collection of toys


Thanks.  Yes, I have all ten fingers and dark hair.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Oh what shlock - 9/12/2006 6:34:02 PM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

"You have a lot to say for someone who does not reside in our country."

given that the attack on the WTC killed more than just Americans, why do you think that only Americans can comment on it? i live in the UK.......i have lived near London in the past and way back in the day saw the aftermath of IRA bombs.........however, i have never tried to argue that i can learn nothing from people who don't live in the UK about terrorism, whether Islamic, Catholic, Protestent, Jewish or state sponsored. All perspectives are valid and sometimes the outsider sees best. If we forget that we run the risk of parochialism.


I certainly agree that anyone can comment on the situation.  My comment was in reaction to what I perceived as his casual dismissal of the lives lost on 9/11.

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Oh what shlock - 9/12/2006 6:37:53 PM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Kendky,

The reason politicians whitewash things is because the public doesn't want and can't deal with reality.  I don't blame politicians, I blame a public to content to remain ignorant, too fearful of making hard choices, to concerned about themselves rather than the greater good.

The 9/11 report is imperfect but it is the best thing we have and is certainly worth discussing.


Can the public change?  Is it possible?  Just curious on your thoughts.

Be well,
Julie

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Oh what shlock - 9/12/2006 6:52:15 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		You asked Crappy but I am going to put my 2 cents in.   I believe that the public can change.  It requries lots of education and time and that is the problem   to many want a quick fix and they are usually the most vocal with the least patience.  Sad

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Oh what shlock - 9/12/2006 7:07:15 PM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

You asked Crappy but I am going to put my 2 cents in.   I believe that the public can change.  It requries lots of education and time and that is the problem   to many want a quick fix and they are usually the most vocal with the least patience.  Sad


I agree and see this problem with many issues facing America.  We are quick to put a bandaid on things instead of really getting to the source of the problems. 

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Oh what shlock - 9/12/2006 9:57:23 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Julie   I think a lot of it has to do with personal accountability.   We have moved away from that to social programs that take over for the individual and appear to strive to keep the individual in those social programs instead of returning them to society.  I think this is why the Clintons went with their village theme because it made people come to the government for aid.

Another thing I am in favor of is a flat tax.  for sake of argument  3% is 3% whether it is on the poor or rich.  no deductions, no exemptions.   You make a dollar you send 3 cents to the govt to cover expenses.   You make a million dollars on the lottery you send the gove $30,000.   What I hear from way to many people is that we should penalize people because they have figured out how to make money in greater quantities than the rest of us.   I live on a fixed income.  my taxes would be something like $60 a month at that rate.  but at least it would be my fair share.  The taxes could then be divided out from a singular accounting source and divided amongst the governmental subdivisions from top to bottom according to some formula (I an not an economics expert).  But this would apply only to general fund items.  Enterprise funds (like your utilities - water, sewer, garbage, hazardous waste, etc) would be funded on a cost basis which is pretty much they operate now.


(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Oh what shlock - 9/12/2006 10:03:08 PM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

cravespleasure:  In general, I wish that there was some kind of buzzer or electroshock therapy applied to an individual everytime they used an ad hominem argument.


Amen, girl!  I like you.

And... (whispered to CrappyDom)  Don't you know yet not to try to teach a pig to sing?  It wastes your time, and annoys the pig.

E

< Message edited by Emperor1956 -- 9/12/2006 10:11:37 PM >

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to cravespleasure)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Oh what shlock - 9/12/2006 10:14:15 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Oh Ken, you are truly salt of the earth so I hate to be the one who robs you of your innocence but here goes.

Define income?  It might truly surprise you how it is defined for income tax purposes.  Many people can live lives of immense luxury, spending freely and buying anything they want and not have any income as defined by the IRS.  I am not bashing the rich, simply pointing out that under the current system there are a great many people making a great deal of money, none of which counts as "income" although most of us couldn't fathom why not.

Read "Perfectly Legal" by David Kay Johnson, it is a very dense read but still engaging and boy will it piss you off about Reagan and Bush, it pissed me off about Clinton.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Oh what shlock - 9/12/2006 10:18:06 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		To me and my feelings about a flat tax is income is revenue generated from any source, with no deductions (some times called Gross Income).  That means you can't deduct your kids, pets, boats, doctor bills etc.

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Oh what shlock - 9/12/2006 10:19:32 PM   
michaelGA2


Posts: 1533
Joined: 4/26/2006
Status: offline 		alright...i give up...what's a schlock?

_____________________________

Are we having fun, yet?

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Oh what shlock - 9/12/2006 10:23:41 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		oh yeah   corporations could deduct actual expenses (payroll, materials, capital expenses, etc)   I am not in favor of deducting things like entertainment of clients, etc.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Oh what shlock - 9/12/2006 10:29:18 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		political contributions, even thojugh they are a marketing strategy for both corporations and individuals should be disallowed as well.   Course that would put a lot of lobbists out of business and I have some good friends that are but what can I say.   I think they are even bigger scum than some of the politicians

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Oh what shlock - 9/14/2006 1:26:27 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		The US now has the "bread and circuses" form of government
made popular during the Roman Empire.  Keep the masses fed,
housed, and entertained and they are less likely to stir up trouble
or tolerate slave revolts.
 


_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 60
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